Forgot to assign maneuver dial

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

It's a good point that - regardless of what the rules say, if's largely up to you and the other player how you want to handle it.  The nice thing about having a rule is that you can always point to it and enforce it if you feel it's necessary, you can always make the judgment call to cut the other player a break if you think it's warranted.  It's just nice having a rule to cover it so that you have a starting point on how it should officially be handled.

 

Nobody wants to think the worst of their opponents, but there are bound to be situations where it would be tempting for anybody, seeing some of the moves play out on the board, to change their move from what they'd actually meant to set the dial for, seeing that it would give them a much more favorable position.  It's just nice to have a rule in place in case of potential abuse of the situation.

[Arthur Volts 83]

I assumed we were only spit balling because of competitive play. Geez. If you're playin for fun, let the guy choose his maneuver, but scold his soul about it whenever you can.

"You sure you got it this time? You know..the dial..for your ship...the circle thing....I know it doesn't go pew pew, but you need to spin it to play the game right."

Edited March 7, 2014 by Arthur Volts

[VanorDM 11,599]

I assumed we were only spit balling because of competitive play.

I think most of us are. If we were only talking about friendly games this thread would be about 1 page long.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

There is no such thing as a friendly game.  

 

Snerk.  

[StevenO 2,996]

There is no such thing as a friendly game.  

 

Snerk.  

 

This depends on who you play and how you play.  Assuming someone WANTS to win then there is no such thing as a truly friendly game.

 

If this were a "friendly" game I see even less reason for using some of the harsh "penalties" for someone failing to set a dial.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

Man, I tricked my own WIFE into making a bad barrel roll so I could get a better shot at her.  
I am without ruth.  

After that, I was also without some other things for a bit.  

Edited March 7, 2014 by CrookedWookie

[Lappenlocker 208]

Man, I tricked my own WIFE into making a bad barrel roll so I could get a better shot at her.  

I am without ruth.  

After that, I was also without some other things for a bit.  

Serves you right.

[Farlander 133]

Wow, that thread grew longer than expected...

I just skimmed through the last few pages and there seemed to be several suggestion:

 

1. Opponent chooses a legal non-red maneuver

2. Use old dial setting (complicated for swarm players like me)

3. Go speed 1 (dismissed for valid reasons)

 

I am amazed that there is no official ruling on that. Were I a TO I would be inclined to use option 1 or option 3, but instead of going ahead with speed 1 the ship would have to move forward at minimum speed, e.g. 2 for TIE fighters. Lambdas of course also have to move ahead at speed 1.

[Lappenlocker 208]

Wow, that thread grew longer than expected...

I just skimmed through the last few pages and there seemed to be several suggestion:

 

1. Opponent chooses a legal non-red maneuver

2. Use old dial setting (complicated for swarm players like me)

3. Go speed 1 (dismissed for valid reasons)

 

I am amazed that there is no official ruling on that. Were I a TO I would be inclined to use option 1 or option 3, but instead of going ahead with speed 1 the ship would have to move forward at minimum speed, e.g. 2 for TIE fighters. Lambdas of course also have to move ahead at speed 1.

I'm interested as to why you dismissed option 2. You admit that option is less desirable for you as a swarm player and yet general consensus seems to be leaning towards option 2. Would you explain why you feel the other options are better?

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

 

Wow, that thread grew longer than expected...

I just skimmed through the last few pages and there seemed to be several suggestion:

 

1. Opponent chooses a legal non-red maneuver

2. Use old dial setting (complicated for swarm players like me)

3. Go speed 1 (dismissed for valid reasons)

 

I am amazed that there is no official ruling on that. Were I a TO I would be inclined to use option 1 or option 3, but instead of going ahead with speed 1 the ship would have to move forward at minimum speed, e.g. 2 for TIE fighters. Lambdas of course also have to move ahead at speed 1.

I'm interested as to why you dismissed option 2. You admit that option is less desirable for you as a swarm player and yet general consensus seems to be leaning towards option 2. Would you explain why you feel the other options are better?

 

He didn't dismiss, he just said it was complicated.

 

[StevenO 2,996]

 

 

Wow, that thread grew longer than expected...

I just skimmed through the last few pages and there seemed to be several suggestion:

 

1. Opponent chooses a legal non-red maneuver

2. Use old dial setting (complicated for swarm players like me)

3. Go speed 1 (dismissed for valid reasons)

 

I am amazed that there is no official ruling on that. Were I a TO I would be inclined to use option 1 or option 3, but instead of going ahead with speed 1 the ship would have to move forward at minimum speed, e.g. 2 for TIE fighters. Lambdas of course also have to move ahead at speed 1.

I'm interested as to why you dismissed option 2. You admit that option is less desirable for you as a swarm player and yet general consensus seems to be leaning towards option 2. Would you explain why you feel the other options are better?

 

He didn't dismiss, he just said it was complicated.

 

 

 

Nothing complicated about it.  Or maybe we should just say nothing more complicated than keeping all the dials with a swarm straight to begin with.  If it were HSF which "forgot" to set a dial I don't know what would be hard.  Going a step further if you see a squad with no repeated ship types there should be nothing "complicated" about using the dial as it was set the last round.

[Farlander 133]

Well, as a swarm player it happens quite often to me that I really have no clue which of my 8 Academy Pilots had which dial. Especially after the merge when the games breaks down into many small skirmishes I think I would not be able to correctly remember which ship had which dial. In my opinion it makes matters more complex as both players might start a discussion on which dial a ship had last round. And I do not like discussions, even if they can be resolved by a dice throw. One side will always feel cheated by the dice, e.g. "I could swear it was a bank 3 right and not the 2..."

Also, what to do in the case of a red dial? I guess, we can agree on that a ship should not get a second k-turn after it just executed one. If option 2 would include the repetition of even red maneuvers like k-turns, this might be an invitation to "forget" the dial. And if red maneuvers are excluded from repetition then the question arises again what to do. 

That's why I personally are inclined against option 2.

Option 1 would be my favourite as it has a similar "precedent" with red maneuvers while being stressed.
Option 3 would be my second choice, as it does not overly disrupt game-play and it feels somewhat "natural" to me, like an automatic car with nobody behind the steering wheel.

(And, yes, he did not dismiss it, yet I got the impression it was dismissed, but I really only skimmed through the last few pages and it seems I got the wrong picture.) 

[efiend 2]

 I think getting any straight move and a stress would be good. Pilots need to work hard to fly a ship in combat. Even real pilots go of course now and then.  Just do not forget to adjust your dial. I mean what do you do when you forget to fire? Answer: move on without firing.  Those kind of questions could never stop. Part of any sport or game is the ability to keep good focus, and in a tournament setting you should not be pampered for a mistake, even if it bothers you all night. I had a brain dud moment where I forgot I could not shoot on an asteroid.  I had gotten excited for a line of fire and just drool- like  forgot. That cost me the game. I have no idea why I thought that way. I sure was bent about it, but just because I had a glitch moment did not mean I should have been allowed to change it. Thats the game, and you cant always have a perfect one.

Edited March 30, 2014 by efiend

[Aminar 1,949]

Well, as a swarm player it happens quite often to me that I really have no clue which of my 8 Academy Pilots had which dial. Especially after the merge when the games breaks down into many small skirmishes I think I would not be able to correctly remember which ship had which dial. In my opinion it makes matters more complex as both players might start a discussion on which dial a ship had last round. And I do not like discussions, even if they can be resolved by a dice throw. One side will always feel cheated by the dice, e.g. "I could swear it was a bank 3 right and not the 2..."

Also, what to do in the case of a red dial? I guess, we can agree on that a ship should not get a second k-turn after it just executed one. If option 2 would include the repetition of even red maneuvers like k-turns, this might be an invitation to "forget" the dial. And if red maneuvers are excluded from repetition then the question arises again what to do. 

That's why I personally are inclined against option 2.

Option 1 would be my favourite as it has a similar "precedent" with red maneuvers while being stressed.

Option 3 would be my second choice, as it does not overly disrupt game-play and it feels somewhat "natural" to me, like an automatic car with nobody behind the steering wheel.

(And, yes, he did not dismiss it, yet I got the impression it was dismissed, but I really only skimmed through the last few pages and it seems I got the wrong picture.)

If you're having that much of a problem remembering which dial went with which ship consider it this way. The unset dial uses whatever manuever is on it, with whatever ship you forgot to set a manuever for. There will be a clear answer, as you will have placed dials for your other ships. If this happens it happens because the dial was sitting where the player didn't notice it. Options 1 and 3 are inefficient ways to handle the situation. If you know which ship and which dial, use the manuever on the dial you forgot to set. Simple as that.

[Lappenlocker 208]

Well, as a swarm player it happens quite often to me that I really have no clue which of my 8 Academy Pilots had which dial. Especially after the merge when the games breaks down into many small skirmishes I think I would not be able to correctly remember which ship had which dial. In my opinion it makes matters more complex as both players might start a discussion on which dial a ship had last round. And I do not like discussions, even if they can be resolved by a dice throw. One side will always feel cheated by the dice, e.g. "I could swear it was a bank 3 right and not the 2..."

Also, what to do in the case of a red dial? I guess, we can agree on that a ship should not get a second k-turn after it just executed one. If option 2 would include the repetition of even red maneuvers like k-turns, this might be an invitation to "forget" the dial. And if red maneuvers are excluded from repetition then the question arises again what to do.

That's why I personally are inclined against option 2.

Option 1 would be my favourite as it has a similar "precedent" with red maneuvers while being stressed.

Option 3 would be my second choice, as it does not overly disrupt game-play and it feels somewhat "natural" to me, like an automatic car with nobody behind the steering wheel.

(And, yes, he did not dismiss it, yet I got the impression it was dismissed, but I really only skimmed through the last few pages and it seems I got the wrong picture.)

Thanks for the response. I am interested in your perspective and I'm not trying to be antagonistic. Simply curious as to your reasons.

In the swarms I've faced, each swarm player placed their dials on the cards, so I don't think there is really that much opportunity to wind up in an argument about which dial went where. Now, if you place the dials next to the ship bases, yes, I can see that being an issue. But, as I said, in my experience, no swarm player places the dials by the ship bases.

Regarding the 2nd red maneuver question... I don't see that as an issue either, because the rules already cover that. Yes, you didn't intentionally set the dial to a second red maneuver, but that doesn't give you the option to ignore the rules about passing your dial to the opponent to choose a new maneuver. So the sequence is to use option 2 (play same maneuver from prior round) but the results of that trigger the rulebook and you wind up at option 1 (opponent selects non-red maneuver).

Again, thanks for the response.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Lappenlocker

[TezzasGames 1,014]

Place ship dials next to or on top of their pilot cards.  It helps maintain a cleaner board state that way and each dial can be traced back to the ship it belongs to.

 

If a player forgets to adjust a ship's dial, then the ship will perform the move that was left on the dial from the previous round.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Hate to Necro a thread but, the new FAQ has rules for this.

From the Competitive play section.

If a player forgets to place a maneuver dial next to a ship, but tells his opponent he is ready to begin the round, once play has proceeded to the first ship (a dial has been revealed, a maneuver has been executed, etc.), he may no longer place a dial. Instead, when that ship activates, the player’s opponent chooses the maneuver that ship will perform. No actions may be taken before this maneuver, but play proceeds normally after the maneuver has been executed.

[StevenO 2,996]

Seen that although it does trouble me a little bit.  That, and a few other rule changes/clarifications, are pointing to a lot more rigid way of playing.  You really need to make a point of ASSIGNING your dials (although if you forget to change it that's still tough) just like you need to be done with one ships move and actions before you go on to the next.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Seen that although it does trouble me a little bit.  That, and a few other rule changes/clarifications, are pointing to a lot more rigid way of playing.

Well those are for competitive and primer events. So if you're running a friendly tournament you can use the casual rules which is a bit more lax.

But there were no rules before this on what to do if someone forgot a dial so now we have something.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

Seen that although it does trouble me a little bit.  That, and a few other rule changes/clarifications, are pointing to a lot more rigid way of playing.  You really need to make a point of ASSIGNING your dials (although if you forget to change it that's still tough) just like you need to be done with one ships move and actions before you go on to the next.

Well keep in mind, nobody is going to put a gun to your head and force you and your opponent to live by those rules.

If you're playing at a premier event and want to cut your opponent a break should he forget to set a dial, that's up to you, I would think. 

[VanorDM 11,599]

If you're playing at a premier event and want to cut your opponent a break should he forget to set a dial, that's up to you, I would think.

Technically no it's not. The tournament rules allows someone to permit the other player to take an action they forgot. But it doesn't allow the same thing for other issues.

So technically speaking you can't let the other person set a dial if they forgot. You also can't let them to change a maneuver if it would cause that ship to go over the edge. Going strictly by RAW you're limited in what you can allow the other person to do.

Now if you don't have a TO watching you and it's the opening round of the tourney then that's one thing. But if we're talking about the finals for Worlds, I could see the TO not allowing someone to fix a mistake like that.

[CrookedWookie 1,258]

Then if you're at the final table at Worlds you'd better remember to set your **** dials, I suppose.  

[DailyRich 3,346]

So expecting someone to perform one of the core mechanics of the game when they're actually supposed to is "a lot more rigid way of playing"?

[ElJeffe313 228]

So expecting someone to perform one of the core mechanics of the game when they're actually supposed to is "a lot more rigid way of playing"?

 

I'll just leave this etiquette discussion here for you before another "Rules as Written" discussion takes off: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/102172-swarm-etiquette/

Edited April 17, 2014 by ElJeffe313