Mndela

Creative artwork cards

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I have the card ideas, that is the title and concept, and have a few pieces of art, but I want someone (preferably you Trololo) to come up with the text. I know you're a supporter of the Palantir card we already have, but I would like if you could create a couple new unique Palantiri, namely the Palantir of Orthanc and Palantir of Minas Tirith. The only condition is that they should be neutral attachments, and while I do have the templates I trust you to come up with a balanced and creative ability for each of them. If you want, of course.

gandalfDK likes this

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Does someone have some nice art of Gandalf whistling for Shadowfax? I'd like to have it for my new Gandalfcards but I can't seem to find it..

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Here is the first part of Gizlivadi's request. Sorry, the art you provided looked awkward on the attachment window to me, so I googled and found this piece (told'ya, I'm picky bout the art I put on the cards  :D ). As for the card text, I decided to took a slightly different approach of a raw power with a possibility to pay the ultimate price for it, while being simple. 

 

UvycdMN7NaY.jpg

 

Still thinking about the second one, going to do something more complex for it.

Gizlivadi likes this

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Too harsh price for being able to quest standingly, at least for me. Card is already unique, takes up a restricted slot, requires a hero to be noble and damages him by the amount of failed questing. Discarding a hero just because you lost a quest must bring some powerful benefit to the table in the first place.

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That's great Trololo! Also that's a good art choice. I had already seen that one and I thought it looked a bit too evil for my taste but it looks pretty good on the finished card. Also it's FFG artwork so it fits. Now as for the card itself, themewise I don't know how a Palantir can make a hero not exhaust to quest, so that's a bit odd, but the effect itself is quite balanced and it's definately something I'd use in a deck. The only change I would give it is "Attach to a Noble or Istari hero", now that we got Gandalf hero.

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And I think a better wording would be "After players quest unsuccessfully, attached hero takes X damage, where X is the total threat in the staging are minus the total willpower of all committed characters."

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This seems too much like a slippery slope card that would encourge power gaming, so to speak, because if you quest successfully, you have a massive gain in action economy and if you fail, even once, you cripple your usually best quester. The effects are a bit too dramatic imo.

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Too harsh price for being able to quest standingly, at least for me. Card is already unique, takes up a restricted slot, requires a hero to be noble and damages him by the amount of failed questing. Discarding a hero just because you lost a quest must bring some powerful benefit to the table in the first place.

 

Either effect can slowly lead to the death of the hero. My version is more thematic because if questing goes wrong, you lose willpower instead of hit points. Denethor lost his will and courage, not his physical health, from using a Palantir. You can also boost your willpower with Favor of the Lady, Dunedain Quest, Celebrian's Stone, and Sword that was Broken. This can give you a huge willpower pool, essentially making it so that the hero is guaranteed not to die. In either case, if you attach this to a hero with at least 3 willpower, the likeliness of the hero dying in a fame is probably pretty close to the same.

 

Now, let's compare this card to Light of Valinor, which is probably its closest match.

 

Both Unique, both cost 1 and both have the same positive effect. The Noble keyword is far more common than Noldor or Silvan on heroes (more 3x as many Noble heroes), which gives the Palantir the upper hand. The palantir is also neutral, which once again makes it better. The "restricted" keyword is a good way to add balance, though it's not extremely painful because questers don't tend to get many other restricted attachments anyway. Then, of course, it's forced effect gives it the potential to be far worse than Light of Valinor, but considering its passive ability, there's a decent chance this negative effect will ever rear its head, especially combined with Light of Valinor on another hero.

 

If you use both cards, you can easily get 6+ willpower each quest phase for "free", which makes it pretty easy to avoid this negative effect. This makes me think that having the -2 willpower effect is more balanced than the damaging effect, but moreso, I just don't think we should have any more attachments that allow you to quest for free.

 

I know I got a bit nitpicky here. I hope no one takes it personally. These are just my opinions, and I still like the card as it is, but I don't think it'd go well in our current card pool and I think it needed a bit more downside and theme.

Edited by joezim007

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I'll trust Trololo to have thelast word on the ability, but I'd give the Palantiri Doomed 1 or 2 (depending on how good they are) and reduce their resource cost so I can fetch them with the Seeing Stone to be super thematic.

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That's great Trololo! Also that's a good art choice. I had already seen that one and I thought it looked a bit too evil for my taste but it looks pretty good on the finished card. Also it's FFG artwork so it fits. Now as for the card itself, themewise I don't know how a Palantir can make a hero not exhaust to quest, so that's a bit odd, but the effect itself is quite balanced and it's definately something I'd use in a deck. The only change I would give it is "Attach to a Noble or Istari hero", now that we got Gandalf hero.

 

From a thematic standpoint, a hero looks into the Palantir and that's why he is prepared (sort of) and is ready to do something else, while lending his willpower to the quest. And if forces of good fail. Palantir starts to consume the hero.

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Too harsh price for being able to quest standingly, at least for me. Card is already unique, takes up a restricted slot, requires a hero to be noble and damages him by the amount of failed questing. Discarding a hero just because you lost a quest must bring some powerful benefit to the table in the first place.

 

Either effect can slowly lead to the death of the hero. My version is more thematic because if questing goes wrong, you lose willpower instead of hit points. Denethor lost his will and courage, not his physical health, from using a Palantir. You can also boost your willpower with Favor of the Lady, Dunedain Quest, Celebrian's Stone, and Sword that was Broken. This can give you a huge willpower pool, essentially making it so that the hero is guaranteed not to die. In either case, if you attach this to a hero with at least 3 willpower, the likeliness of the hero dying in a fame is probably pretty close to the same.

 

Now, let's compare this card to Light of Valinor, which is probably its closest match.

 

Both Unique, both cost 1 and both have the same positive effect. The Noble keyword is far more common than Noldor or Silvan on heroes (more 3x as many Noble heroes), which gives the Palantir the upper hand. The palantir is also neutral, which once again makes it better. The "restricted" keyword is a good way to add balance, though it's not extremely painful because questers don't tend to get many other restricted attachments anyway. Then, of course, it's forced effect gives it the potential to be far worse than Light of Valinor, but considering its passive ability, there's a decent chance this negative effect will ever rear its head, especially combined with Light of Valinor on another hero.

 

If you use both cards, you can easily get 6+ willpower each quest phase for "free", which makes it pretty easy to avoid this negative effect. This makes me think that having the -2 willpower effect is more balanced than the damaging effect, but moreso, I just don't think we should have any more attachments that allow you to quest for free.

 

I know I got a bit nitpicky here. I hope no one takes it personally. These are just my opinions, and I still like the card as it is, but I don't think it'd go well in our current card pool and I think it needed a bit more downside and theme.

 

You see it as more thematic, I don't. The problem with your design is that characters that lose willpower after failing a quest changes nothing, his willpower (unreduced) was already contributed. Also, willpower subtraction and hero death based on it makes the card simply subpar for low willpower heroes and no threat for high willpower ones.

 

And, I don't see the point of attaching the Palantir to powerful questers. It's supposed to go on jacks-of-all-trades, like Prince Imrahil, who has decent enough willpower to quest and other stats to do something else. What's the point of having Eowyn ready outside of most of the quests?

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Good points Trololo. What do you think of my ideas? (the reformulated sentence, beng able to attach it to an istari, and the doomed keyword). Also, I was thinking the Palantir of Minas Tirith could do something related to the top card of the encounter deck or card draw, but in a more splashable way than the current Palantir.

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Is that approximately what you wanted?

 

1tyY1ETUa7Q.jpg

 

I retained the wording because it's taken straight out of the rulebook, to prevent the confusion if one will refer to it while trying to understand how card works.

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I looked up the phrase in the rulebook,and you're right. Unless there is another card that references the amount of threat that exceeds the willpower with different wording, this one is correct. And the card looks perfect now.

Edited by Gizlivadi

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You see it as more thematic, I don't. The problem with your design is that characters that lose willpower after failing a quest changes nothing, his willpower (unreduced) was already contributed. Also, willpower subtraction and hero death based on it makes the card simply subpar for low willpower heroes and no threat for high willpower ones.

 

And, I don't see the point of attaching the Palantir to powerful questers. It's supposed to go on jacks-of-all-trades, like Prince Imrahil, who has decent enough willpower to quest and other stats to do something else. What's the point of having Eowyn ready outside of most of the quests?

I'm talking about a permanent willpower loss, like the Denethor ally. How is that not thematic? You said that when they fail, "Palantir starts to consume the hero." Look at Denethor. When he was "consumed", he no longer had the will to fight. His willpower then went so low that he even lost the will to live and tried to kill himself. I'm trying to represent that. I know this isn't the Palantir from Minas Tirith, but I don't know of any other stories that can tell anything about the negative effects of using the Palantir.

 

Also, most "jack-of-all-trades" Noble heroes can get 3+ willpower pretty easily with any of the attachments I already mentioned or from factional boosts, which would save them from dying from the first failed quest. Also, they now quest for less, so the Palantir's effect is weaker, which is a stronger downside than taking damage because damage can be healed and the loss of willpower cannot and the cards "good" effect is only useful if you have a lot of willpower.

 

I totally agree that Eowyn isn't a good target for this card. I never mentioned her name, did I? How about these guys who either have 3 willpower from the start or have thematic ways to raise it to 3+ (not using Favor of the Lady or Dunedain Quest):

 

Start with 3

Celeborn

Elrond

Glorfindel

Thorin

Theoden

 

Start with 2

Aragorn: Celebrian's Stone and/or Sword that was Broken

Faramir: Visionary Leadership

Gimli: Dain Ironfoot

Gloin: Dain Ironfoot

Prince Imrahil: Visionary Leadership

 

With the exceptions of Elladan, Elrohir, Eowyn, every Noble hero with 2 or more starting willpower can thematically get 3+ willpower and be useful in at least 1 aspect of combat. Even Elladan and Elrohir can be good targets with Favor of the Lady, Dunedain Quest, or if you're happy with the 2 willpower, by just not failing a quest.

 

I don't want to get into a heated debate with the most notorious troll on this forum. I'm just trying to defend my opinion that a permanent willpower loss is more thematic.

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I don't want to get into a heated debate with the most notorious troll on this forum. I'm just trying to defend my opinion that a permanent willpower loss is more thematic.

 

 

I'm not a troll, people just don't like when you do not agree with their opinion. And I do that a lot. Speaking of your arguments, the way you declare a permanent loss will not do - players are not going to keep that in mind, you'll need to place resource on your card. That's first. Second - you were discussing the Palantir of Orthanc, but you reference Denethor, which used the Palantir of Minas Tirith, which I work on right now.

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Hmmm, interesting, but I'm not sure. So the first thing I thought is, "don't attach it to Denethor". If you ever plan on using him as a defender, which is to be expected given his 3 defense, he's in too great danger, not to mention that a single of those treacheries that damage exhausted characters is going to kill him right away. I like the idea of scrying the encounter deck for a proggressive cost based on the hero's willpower, that is cool, but it's a little too dangerous to attach to any hero with less than 3 willpower. Especially jacks of all trades who will defend or take damage eventually. An easy way to fix it without changing the ability much would be to just ditch the effect of discarding the hero if he gets 0 WP, and just stick with the cost of losing willpower and the threat gain. And finally, did you not like art I gave you? Was it too small? I like the one you used, but seeing that the guy behind is clearly a wizard, maybe it's more suitable for the Palantir of Orthanc.

Edited by Gizlivadi

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Yes, your the art you provided looks extremely wierd on the cards to me for some reason (maybe just form is not fit).

 

The second palantir is about giving another use to willpower outside of questing. Denethor looked inside which, with time, drove him mad. You can scry before questing and if you see a damaging threachery - you prepare accordingly. Also, bring in some healing with you.

Edited by MyNeighbourTrololo

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350wks0.jpg

 

So just for fun I made Trololo's card using the art I had previously planned for this card. Does this look too weird? I'm actually planning on having these cards professionally printed, so any feedback is welcome. I must say I still don't quite like the part about discarding the hero if he gets to 0 willpower. It's a bit too harsh IMO to have the willpower become the new hitpoints, especially if the hero has less than 3 willpower. I think that cutting that line and just leaving the Palantir totally useless (since you cannot look at any cards if the WP is 0, and reducing the willpower for each point of damage) is enough drawback, besides of course the threat and damage whenever you reveal an enemy card.

Edited by Gizlivadi

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I don't want to get into a heated debate with the most notorious troll on this forum. I'm just trying to defend my opinion that a permanent willpower loss is more thematic.

 

 

I'm not a troll, people just don't like when you do not agree with their opinion. And I do that a lot. Speaking of your arguments, the way you declare a permanent loss will not do - players are not going to keep that in mind, you'll need to place resource on your card. That's first. Second - you were discussing the Palantir of Orthanc, but you reference Denethor, which used the Palantir of Minas Tirith, which I work on right now.

 

 

Correct, but we have no reference to a Palantir wounding any characters. The only reference to a Palantir that caused any lasting harm was the Palantir in Minas Tirith, so I'm just going off that one.

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Also, if you're not a troll (your name indicates otherwise), then you need to learn self-control a little more and learn the distinction between "rights" and "privileges". Hopefully I won't need to bring up that "discussion" again.

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I'm pretty sure he chose that name because he's Ukrainian and the Trololo singer guy, Eduard Khil is from Russia. Thus, "my neighbour Trololo", since Ukraine neighbours with Russia.

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