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BillyBabel

Agent Ability Questions.

7 posts in this topic

Ok i have a few questions abut some of the plot deck and agent abilities that seem off to me.

First in the new tristayne plot deck, there is the card mortal coil that reads http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent-second...

My question is if you use this to bring back tristayne, do you have to repurchase his agent card again? Because he is "defeated" in that he dies, but he also isn't really defeated because he's alive.

Also the Alric agent has the overrun ability, that says when you move adjacent to a hero, he may trade spaces with that hero, and the hero suffers 1 stamina. First question, is does the space trade count as a movement? Could alric potentially move 8 squares with this? Also is there a limit on the amount of times you could do this? Could you just keep moving next to a hero over and over again to drain all their stamina?

Final question, If Valyndra gets a movement action from hoarder, or say even from no rest for the wicked that allows her to move one space, is she allowed to shrink and expand like a normal move action effectively giving her like 2 extra spaces of movement?

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I was wondering about this myself, i feel though that the card was specifically written to not include agents.

 

The card says "Replace with a master monster in the same group as a defeated monster". This strongly implies to me that the Agent will not get reinforced - i think it was purposefully worded in this way as to not to allow the agent to come back from the dead.

 

If the card more specifically stated that the same monster would come back to life i would be inclined to agree that the agent can come back to life.

 

Instead to me the card says that you could bring back the master monster of the group (the one the lieutenant replaced initially) back after a round.

 

This is in the same respect in the way that an Agent  is treated as the master monster in his groupa. Once he dies his reinforcements will instead be a master monster (and possibly a minion or two) of the chosen monster group and not the Agent.

 

 

 

 

Overrun does not use movement points, it says that you trade spaces with a hero. Otherwise it would read something more like "Spend a movement point to move into a space containing a hero, move that hero to an adjacent space and he suffers 1 fatigue."

 

 

 

The last question i can see being debatable either way, so i am not sure about that one.

Edited by BentoSan

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Hoarder does not give a movement action, but movement points.

 

I can't remember where I saw this, but she has to uses her points immediately, or the points are lost, so she need to uses all of her movement point in one shot, and then shrink only at the end (or uses less, but loosing the ones not used)

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My question is if you use this to bring back tristayne, do you have to repurchase his agent card again? Because he is "defeated" in that he dies, but he also isn't really defeated because he's alive.


Agents are monsters, but they are not "masters" or "minions." They are something else. Same thing goes for LTs, btw. As such, you cannot trigger this card when Tristayne is defeated, and you certainly can't use it to bring him back.

 

Also the Alric agent has the overrun ability, that says when you move adjacent to a hero, he may trade spaces with that hero, and the hero suffers 1 stamina. First question, is does the space trade count as a movement?


For Alric the LT's Overpower ability, FFG has ruled that Alric must actually spend an MP in order to trade spaces. Therefore you could do it at most 3 times using his basic movement rate.

Alric the Agent's Overrun ability is worded slightly differently, and no longer requires a Might test, but we're still inclined to play it this way with regards to limiting how many times he can do it per turn.  I don't really know why they changed this ability for the Agent card; the LT version is better worded and it's not like it relies on expansion abilities to work.

 

Final question, If Valyndra gets a movement action from hoarder, or say even from no rest for the wicked that allows her to move one space, is she allowed to shrink and expand like a normal move action effectively giving her like 2 extra spaces of movement?


Yes, as a large monster Valyndra would still follow the "shrink/expand" rules for large monster movement any time she moves. It doesn't matter why she's moving.

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My question is if you use this to bring back tristayne, do you have to repurchase his agent card again? Because he is "defeated" in that he dies, but he also isn't really defeated because he's alive.


Agents are monsters, but they are not "masters" or "minions." They are something else. Same thing goes for LTs, btw. As such, you cannot trigger this card when Tristayne is defeated, and you certainly can't use it to bring him back.

 

Also the Alric agent has the overrun ability, that says when you move adjacent to a hero, he may trade spaces with that hero, and the hero suffers 1 stamina. First question, is does the space trade count as a movement?


For Alric the LT's Overpower ability, FFG has ruled that Alric must actually spend an MP in order to trade spaces. Therefore you could do it at most 3 times using his basic movement rate.

Alric the Agent's Overrun ability is worded slightly differently, and no longer requires a Might test, but we're still inclined to play it this way with regards to limiting how many times he can do it per turn.  I don't really know why they changed this ability for the Agent card; the LT version is better worded and it's not like it relies on expansion abilities to work.

 

Final question, If Valyndra gets a movement action from hoarder, or say even from no rest for the wicked that allows her to move one space, is she allowed to shrink and expand like a normal move action effectively giving her like 2 extra spaces of movement?


Yes, as a large monster Valyndra would still follow the "shrink/expand" rules for large monster movement any time she moves. It doesn't matter why she's moving.

 

Sorry but you are incorrect on that first part, the rules very clearly state "An agent is treated as a master monster within its open group" http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/descent-second-ed/news/lieutenants/DJ09-rules-web.pdf

 

so it looks like you could bring him back, but would stilll have to discard his card sadly.

Edited by BillyBabel

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Instead to me the card says that you could bring back the master monster of the group (the one the lieutenant replaced initially) back after a round.

 

 

This is my interpretation as well.  Even though an agent is replaced by a master (and possibly minion) monster, I would not say that they are the master monster of that group.  The are still considered a master monster however.

 

Maybe ask FFG to get some clarification.

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Yeah, based on rules as written, I'd agree with BillyBabel, but this is probably best asked as a question for FFG as it could go either way.

 

Pertinent Rules from the back of the Lieutenant Pack rules:

 

 ... An agent is treated as a master monster within its open monster group with the following exceptions

  • Regardless of quest rules, an agent cannot be placed as a reinforcement.
  • When an agent is defeated, the overlord must return the Plot card that summoned the agent back to hi sPlot deck. The card may be purchased again.

...

When an agent is placed in a monster group, that agent and the monsters in that group are treated as if they are part of the same monster group. While the agent is on the map, the overlord cannot use the monster figures it replaced as reinforcements, regardless of quest rules.

 

 

 

Since it doesn't say that you return the Agent figure to the box, and just the card, the Agent would likely still be available for use in this case. But he'd still be considered defeated the first time, so this would be his last hurrah.

 

That said, with the "an agent cannot be placed as a reinforcement", FFG may intend that once they are gone, they are gone. I would expect that Mortal Coil supersedes this as it's not a reinforcement, but since this is a rule specifically included in a Lieutenant Plot Deck, you'd think they'd mention it (though I could see doing it right still being fairly wordy "or Tristayne (but ONLY if Tristayne was the one defeated)").

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