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Chav

Lieutenant packs, where to start?

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Hey there.

 

So we are a group thats just finished the Shadow rune campaign with Lair of Wyrm and the Trollfens and part time playing the same campaign (adding an other gay who nearly never can play) and the plan is to buy the Labirynth of Ruin as the next go to quest. 

 

At the same time i though of addding a Lieutenant pack, but where to start? I have read the core rules, but which one to go to? I was thinking Valyndra or Bal'goth (or what the hect they are called) as that will allow us to use these monsters more often. but since i have no clue what their cards do, i dont know if i should get these, or someone else?

 

Also as far is i can se the "agent" versions ahve the exact same rules as the Lieutenants, yet it seems people are writing they dont have the same rules, which is true?

 

Thanks in advance

 

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The only major difference between lieutenants and agents is that agents can't use relics. They also can't ever be reinforced, regardless of quest rules.

 

I think Valyndra's a popular choice for the LT packs. I have her, but I haven't used her myself, so I can't say one way or the other how her plot deck works in action. Bol'goreth is also pretty popular... out of the Shadow Rune LTs, Zachareth might be a good choice (though keep in mind, if you replay The Shadow Rune, he can't be used as the Agent).

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Ringskipper, is it that Zachareth can't be used in the entire Shadow Ruin campaign, or just in Quests where Zachareth appears as the lieutenant? I thought it was the latter. If you played a campaign with all expansions the former would negate summoning just about every agent.

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Ringskipper, is it that Zachareth can't be used in the entire Shadow Ruin campaign, or just in Quests where Zachareth appears as the lieutenant? I thought it was the latter. If you played a campaign with all expansions the former would negate summoning just about every agent.

 

Zachareth can't appear as an agent at all in The Shadow Rune. This is most likely because of flavor reasons -- Zachareth starts off the campaign as an ally and his betrayal is a pretty big plot point. If he was an agent and suddenly appeared in one of the first quests, it would break the game's storyline. Other LTs, like Eliza or Splig, can't be used in quests that they appear in as a LT. I believe Zachareth, Queen Ariad, and Mirklace are the only agents that can't be used in their respective campaigns.

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It breaks theme but I imagine you can probably use Zachareth if you wanted to in Shadow Rune. Alric Farrow and Val'yndra are my first choices. Easy to use, works with most monster types (as opposed to specific ones, like DARK or WILD only).

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You would still use the Zachareth figure to replace the cardboard token in the quests he's in, so you still gain that by purchasing him.

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Could always just house rule that Agent Zachareth can be summoned only in Act 2, as his betrayal has already happened.  He still couldn't be used in the Finale however (I think there's a rule for all Agents that they can't be used for the Interlude or the Finale).

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Also as far is i can se the "agent" versions ahve the exact same rules as the Lieutenants, yet it seems people are writing they dont have the same rules, which is true?

 

I think this question is referring to the rules on the cards for the figures. A couple examples:

 

The Lieutenant Valyndra has Burn, as the Lieutenant Valyndra comes with the expansion that includes the Burn condition.

Agent Valyndra does not have Burn, as you do not need Lair of the Wyrm to use her Lieutenant Pack.

A similar thing applies for any of the Lieutenants that use conditions that aren't in the base game (their agents don't use those conditions). I believe this applies to Bol'goreth, but I'm not sure who else this might apply to. 

 

The other example is that any Lieutenant that has an ability that tests their own attributes (Might, Knowledge, Awareness, Willpower), will have those rules re-worked for their agent counterparts since Agents do not have attributes.

 

There may also be a few balance tweaks to things like armor, damage, etc., but I don't know of any off-hand.

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Of course, it comes with a plot deck, threat tokens, and rules for how to use them in your campaign, which provides the overlord more options and gives the players fortune tokens to balance it out.

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Deck of cards that follow a theme that allow you to make use of the lieutenant in the campaign on other missions. It basically gives the overlord extra options but gives out fortune tokens when they are used for balance.

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If you're about to start the Labyrinth of Ruin, the Ariad pack might be a good idea. The plot deck has some fun flavor abilities related to mirages, like teletransporting monsters if you fail to damage them in an attack (as if they were an illusion copy). Plus, you get the mini for the final boss.

Other good options:
Raythen or Serena: You get a figure for the ally (And a hero sheet for other campaigns, no hero in LoR)

Splig - I've read that between all releases, it appears in quests the most. Fun with common wilderness monsters.
Bol'Goreth or Valyndra - Cool big minis. Bol goreth spreads diseases/poison status, Valyndra makes large monsters scarier.

Merick - Different fun tricks, and creates a little inside drama by transferring damage between heroes.

Using them as agents shouldn't be your main worry, because its not easy to pull of. The all around plot deck and just having the mini are more relevant, I think.

Edited by ramblur

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I wanted to buy my first two lieutenant packs for core set and after some reading I choose Splig and Belthir.

Is it a good choice? I want to have just two of them for now.

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I don't know what to think about the Splig deck. I too read a lot of good things about it, but when I looked at the cards it just felt too restrictive in my opinion, like Valyndra and her boosts to large monsters. If it suits your playstyle then go ahead, but from my own experience as a OL I would rather opt for something more generic giving me lots of choices without having to consider the type of monster I picked for the quest. Because otherwise I may end up with dead cards in my deck/hand. Yeah I can set them aside when selecting 15 cards, but they're still dead cards I cannot even consider. I have no real answer as for which plot deck would be best to pick, but I'm currently testing both Alric and Merrick in my campaigns and they seem fine. Belthir looked interesting too but I wanted something more than just utility.

 

Quite frankly it would have been GREAT to pick one school/trait of whatever can be used to classify the agents, and be able to purchase ANY card from any plot deck at a cost resolved around the category it belongs to versus the specialization you chose or whatever the name. The OL cards system is great in that sense. Okay that top tier card requires you to own lower tier cards of the same type, so why not applying the same mechanism to plot decks? I want to be able to buy any agent's level 1 plot card then I can specialize and get more from 2-3 of them. Ultimately, what's the problem with having two possible summon agents in my plot deck, especially since I won't be able to summon that agent in a certain number of quests anyway? Just add a restriction that only one agent can be summoned by quest and let the OL decide which one he/she wishes to use.

 

I'm in the situation where I just pile up threat tokens and wonder if the system around these couldn't have been better implemented, or at least less restrictive.

 

Alternatively, getting access to certain plot cards could have been a reward or a special quest event, not that it would put plot cards straight in your hand (or?) but at least make them available for purchase. 

 

Similarly, also because I often get the question from my heroes, why not unlocking class abilities outside of the class you originally picked from the start, so that a Champion may purchase a Knight class ability for either its price (when made available from a quest) or with an increase of cost (based on archetype)?

 

I just don't see why it should be a hassle to select a class/OL/plot deck and restrict yourself to these few cards for the whole campaign. I think the game is fine as it is, but I also think many of these unnecessary restrictions/boundaries have been set which don't really need to exist at the first place. It doesn't make the game more complicated to allow players to get access to more abilities, it just diversifies the game more. You can still block access to other archetypes or if you think two agent decks are incompatible because they're enemies thematically or whatever.

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I just don't see why it should be a hassle to select a class/OL/plot deck and restrict yourself to these few cards for the whole campaign. I think the game is fine as it is, but I also think many of these unnecessary restrictions/boundaries have been set which don't really need to exist at the first place. It doesn't make the game more complicated to allow players to get access to more abilities, it just diversifies the game more. You can still block access to other archetypes or if you think two agent decks are incompatible because they're enemies thematically or whatever.

1 big reason: Balance Testing. The more options you have, the more difficult it is to make sure that you don't have ridiculous combos available. Having restrictions means that the designers are free to have really awesome skills available that they know won't be combined in unexpected ways.

 

There are a number of other smaller reasons, such as keeping the rules as simple as they can be (because despite your statement to the contrary, adding an additional set of rules does make the game more complicated).

 

 

But here's the kicker: It's your game; FFG isn't going to come in and police it in your living room. If you and your group want to multiclass, come up with some house rules and make it happen. Come back and tell us what rules you used and how it went. Feel free to ask for suggestions or recommendations or if we see any pitfalls that you may have missed.

jadedbacon and rfisha like this

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It would also make the support style classes obsolete, instead of players picking a support class they would instead just pick a strong damage dealing and just dual class into the support roles. Id immagine some of the combinations the heroes could come up with would totally decimate the overlords chances of winning.

 

That said, it could be an idea for a new campaign to implement something similar to your ideas. Atleast in this way it could be done in a much more controlled fashion. For example as a quert reward the heroes or overlord could pick up an ability.

 

Your idea of the plot cards being quest rewards would also mean FFG would need to go back in time and rewrite certain quests, not sure how they would do that :P They could certainly toy with some sort of similar idea in future campaign expansions however.

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I like lady Eliza Farrow's abilities and as I only wanted to buy into one or two lieutenants ... is her Plot Deck any good?

 

Some seem to be quite specific...

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I dont like Eliza Farrows plot deck... My favourite deck is Alric farrow and Valyndra. But I have all basic decks without splig and also I have Valyndra.

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Merric Farrows card that causes an automatic miss once per quest before dice are rolled just saved my ass yesterday and turned what could have been a loss for the overlord into a win =D Very good card to have as a lot of games can come down to the line like this.

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