How Bad does the z-95 dial have to be...

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

Before you use a prototype instead?

 

Pros-

12pts vs. 17pts

PS 2 instead of 1

 

Equal-

HP

Missiles

Role

 

Cons-

Worse dial?

1 less AG

2 less actions

 

Everything I read online says it turns better than an xwing but the xwing was more manuverable and faster.  So xwing dial with the turns moved down 1 speed each (1,2 instead of 2,3) and the 4 forward red? 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Rakky Wistol

[Khyros 4,218]

It needs to have a 1 turn.  I believe it'll also have a 1 bank and 1 straight, which will make it the only other ship (besides the YT and the B wing, but the turn is red) that has all of the 1 speed maneuvers.  Unless the 2 turn becomes red, or it doesn't have a K turn (very unlikely) it's going to end up with a great dial.  I <3 the B wing dial, being able to do any 1 spd or 2 spd maneuver.  If the 1 turn wasn't red, it would be AWESOME.  On the Z-95, it's not as dangerous of a ship, so it won't be OP to have all 6 of those maneuvers.  As for top speed, I don't really care if it has it or not.  I very rarely find myself using the 4 forward on anything except an A wing anyways.  Not having the 3 turn could be a slight downgrade, but the addition of the 1 turn more than makes up for it.

 

Also, I consider the PS2 kinda a negative right now.  I know I know, the PS2 shoots before the PS1, but I've really fallen in love with moving first and action denying.  It's possible though that I've just hit that point where I know enough about the game and the folks I play with know enough that we see very similar choices as to where to move.  Given, swarm vs. swarm, I'd much rather have the PS2.

 

Also, I would say the roles are different.  The Z-95 is going to be more of a filler ship than a flanker.  Have 24 points left over?  Do you take a naked dagger, or do you take two bandits?  Have 15 points left over?  Do you shave a few to get a prototype, or take a bandit and add a few elsewhere?

[Joker Two 635]

I'll second the white 1-speed turn, which then makes the 3-speed turns most likely to go.  The 4-speed straight might turn red, might not.

 

Which is actually a pretty strong dial for short- and mid-range combat.  This (and the PS2) probably fills the gap between the TIE/LN's 3rd point of Agility with Evade and the Z-95's 4th point of Hull and Shield.

 

Also, I would say the roles are different.  The Z-95 is going to be more of a filler ship than a flanker.  Have 24 points left over?  Do you take a naked dagger, or do you take two bandits?  Have 15 points left over?  Do you shave a few to get a prototype, or take a bandit and add a few elsewhere?

 

Yeah, despite the identical points value, they have very different uses in a Rebel list than TIE/LNs do in an Imperial list.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

I think the biggest thing is the pt difference.  You can get a Bandit with a trick (or 2 depending on mods that come this wave) for cheaper or the same cost as a Protype.  Flanker at 17pts  or assualt missile so you don't need the flanker.  Annoying filler at 17pts or support filler for 2pts cheaper, or extra body filler at 5pts cheaper.

 

I'm thinking the actual dial will be better than most Rebel dials and depending on what they do with named Pilots! could be even a different choice. 

[Sithborg 11,513]

I imagine it will be a bit similar to the X-wing dial, only with a bit more red.

[dvorm 1,058]

So xwing dial with the turns moved down 1 speed each (1,2 instead of 2,3) and the 4 forward red? 

The picture in the announcement shows a straight 4 on the dial. It seems to be white.

[JasonVoorhees 24]

A z95 with a missile is much more likely to get roasted earlier than a greenie for a couple of reasons. If it carries a missile it's more of a threat than a naked greenie, so it needs to dies before it drops it's payload. Also it's rolling one less agility which means it'll drop a bit easier. A greenie isn't much better in the long run and the missile option is a plus for the z95 but if I'm throwing that greenie in my list it's because I want it to be ignored, or at least undervalued for it's role.

The end result is how much of a threat that Z95 seems to your opponent and how highly they value it's destruction. At PS2 it will probably get it's missile off against the academy swarm, but everyone else could just see blood in the water with it and just sweep it out of the way

[Eruletho 544]

I don't really care how bad the dial is, I'll still fly the thing instead of Arvel for a rebel 4-ship 6666 build (assuming the PS6 is 1-3 points less than the PS8, I'm guessing 2 at 17 points, so the PS6 Z95, plus Garven, Dutch w/ ICT, and Ibitsam is 99 points)

[StevenO 2,996]

Unless you you are just looking for filler the prototype and bandit are two very different ships.  I mean if you are going to make the Bandit's dial so bad that I WANT to use a prototype instead it will make the Z nearly useless.  Give it an X-Wing like dial (ok, move the 3 turn down to 1 turn if you must) and you are looking at two ships with very different functions.  The Z should never be the flanker that the AW can be so the dial comparison doesn't matter.

 

I mean you could ask a similar question of "how bad would the TIE Fighter dial need to be before you would use an Interceptor instead of it?"  I mean Bandit + EU is now at 16 points and it doesn't have the Prototype's +1 agility yet even if it is +1 PS with the same actions and hull/shield.  The Bandit/Prototype cost comparison seems pretty even to me but actually FAVORS the prototype if those of the kinds of things you want the ship to do.

 

One thing about the Z's that will interest me is seeing the 15 point bandit + Hull Upgrade that is virtually a Rookie with one less attack die but for 6 points less.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

 

One thing about the Z's that will interest me is seeing the 15 point bandit + Hull Upgrade that is virtually a Rookie with one less attack die but for 6 points less.

Yep... bring along Jan and Garvin/Dutch to bring the pain for cheaper.

 

I tested a few random bandits using the xwing dial and was as surprised as I was with naked awings.  They're pretty efficient little buggers as you tend to ignore them over x/b wings.  If Jan is around you have an xwing for 9pts cheaper as long as both are alive.  That's pretty big.  2 of them pretty much pay for themselves if Jan lives along side of them the whole time.

 

Jan+ ion

Dagger

Blue

Bandit x2

 

A 5 ship rebel build that shoots at 8, 4, 2, 2, 2 with 15+ dice and 29hp.  Not ideal but nasty.  You can also go:

 

Jan+ ion

Garvin

IB

Bandit

Still have points left to give IB an elite talent (and maybe FCS) for really consistent damage. 

[Revanchist 1,063]

I'll second the white 1-speed turn, which then makes the 3-speed turns most likely to go.  The 4-speed straight might turn red, might not.

 

Which is actually a pretty strong dial for short- and mid-range combat.  This (and the PS2) probably fills the gap between the TIE/LN's 3rd point of Agility with Evade and the Z-95's 4th point of Hull and Shield.

 

I too agree with the loss of the 3-turn, but I think the 1-turns will probably be red. Just because something can make tighter turns doesn't mean it likes to.

[Effenhoog 990]

I don't really see the Z-95 and A-wing as competing for the same spot.  The Z-95 is point filler, while the A-wing is there to serve a purpose as a maneuverable flanker/dogfighter. It's like comparing academy pilots to Backstabber. One is just there to fill space in a list at a low price point, but the other has a specific purpose in mind that you are deliberately paying the extra points to acquire.

[Rakky Wistol 2,903]

It does fill the same role: the rebels cheapest viable ship. It is also the cheapest missile carrier. Perhaps they don't fly the same or have the same stats but the z95 fulfills the role the awing was filling and it does so cheaper and with more upgrade options for cheaper/same cost.

[StevenO 2,996]

The Z-95 can fill one of the roles the A-Wing had filled, that of a "cheap" missile carrier, but the Prototype still has its roles that the Z will not replace as easily.

[Ravncat 1,988]

Yeah, if you take the missile about of consideration, we're looking at roughly the tie fighter (z95) vs tie interceptor (a-wing). So, the roles really at different.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

The A-WIng will fairly clearly have the better dial: it's got the best dial in the entire game, after all. Combined with the native Boost, and the A-Wing will be able to literally fly circles around the headhunter.
The Headhunter, canonically, is slower than an X-Wing, though it can corner more tightly.
That means a 1 turn, but potential to be the second ship in the game without a 4 forward.

[StevenO 2,996]

They share some stats but then so do many ships in the game.  That doesn't mean they get used anywhere near the same way.

[Engine25 2,910]

The A-WIng will fairly clearly have the better dial: it's got the best dial in the entire game, after all. Combined with the native Boost, and the A-Wing will be able to literally fly circles around the headhunter.

The Headhunter, canonically, is slower than an X-Wing, though it can corner more tightly.

That means a 1 turn, but potential to be the second ship in the game without a 4 forward.

In the promo art it has a white 4 forward visible.