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princeearwig

Another question about unreliable

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Which is sort of related to Durak's question. We are playing in the same game group and my character has a spear "unreliable 2" also. So I have a vested interest in this :D

 

My question is this.
WFRP3 has some very specific wording in certain areas that applies very specific criteria to an action.

 

Unreliable is written in such a way that it is not implicit that actions using an unreliable weapon get an additional effect line that triggers on X chaos stars.

it states that 

 

If the weapon is a blackpowder weapon, it backfires or explodes if at least as many Chaos Star symbols are rolled equal to the item’s Unreliable rating.

 

it is the same for non-black powder but I've edited for brevity.

 

Do people read this as meaning those Chaos Stars are consumed in the act of triggering the unreliable quality 

 

ie. The action used essentially has an extra line added reading (assuming unreliable 2)

 

<Chaos Star><Chaos Star> The weapon explodes dealing 2 damage to the wielder.

 

or is it an additional effect that occurs "on top" of what would otherwise be triggered by the Chaos Stars.

 

I seem to recall a few instances where symbols trigger multiple effects.

 

If it is a triggering effect that uses the symbols up in the act of triggering.. well I'd be able to avoid ever triggering it by just choosing a different Chaos star effect for on or both of the starts and voila my supposedly unreliable weapon doesn't break/blow up.

Edited by princeearwig

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I think I may have just answered my own question by re-reading the rules.

As it is the GM that usually determines negative effects it is unlikely that they will choose to avoid the unreliable effect by choosing other chaos star results.

So I think I am now firmly in the "they are consumed by use" camp.

 

opinions still gratefully received.

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and now I've changed my mind again thanks to a reply on Durak's thread.

The Unreliable effect has the words "This is in addition to any other effects" at the bottom of the first paragraph.

 

It is an additional effect that occurs "on top" of what would otherwise be triggered by the Chaos Stars

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I'd say they're used up.  The passage you quote doesn't sound like it's deliberately invoking a trigger-without-spending effect.  I think the wording's just unintentionally ambiguous, which mean's I'll follow the normal rules in this case (wherein the stars are spent)

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Hi,

 

I just don't quite exactly get how does Unreliable suppose to work. Lets say we have "Unreliable 2" handgun. Most ranged attacks with it would be a Ballistic Skill vs Target Defense, and thus would use only a single Challenge die, and it would be impossible to roll 2 Chaos stars with this roll. So, would it make the weapon then safe as long as characters don't use special attacks that add more Challenge dice to the roll?

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Yeah. If you can't roll more than one Chaos Star you should be safe. Which makes a Unreliable 2 Weapon much better than an Unreliable 1 weapon. However, many of the better Ranged Actions add extra Challange dice.

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Perhaps.

But does it make any sense, that the pistol may explode only if the character aim's better with it? (uses some special action like Chunk in the Armour that add more Challenge dice) I mean, how does the pistol know?

Perhaps, it is better to have this "Unreliable" cumulative. So that GM may choose to "damage" a bit the pistol - among the other possible chaos star effects (not in addition, or may be in addition as well). Then players may notice that their weapon has a small backlash and needs to be tended - to remove accumulated damage.

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Yes, the unreliable rating is kind of strange in that way. Only special attacks or improved/advanced defences carry the risk of triggering the unreliable rating.

 

I've seen a houserule that Unreliable X would mean that it's triggered when:

Either rolling X chaos stars OR when rolling 1 chaos star and X banes.

 

So you could consider implementing that houserule in your gaming group.

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