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Glowwyrm

SPOILERS!!! Voice of Isengard Player Cards

40 posts in this topic

Copied from a Board Game Geek post.  The OP translated the not yet revealed cards from German.

The original post can be found here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1122602/why-is-there-no-spoiler-list-yet

Heroes
Eomer (lazy, see image gallery)
Grima (lazy, see image gallery)

Leadership
Orthanc Guard (ally, cost 2, 1w0a2d2h, untaps after increasing threat from doomed)
Legacy of Numenor (event, cost 0, doomed 3, add 1 ressource to every hero)

Spirit
Westfold Horse Breeder (ally, cost 1, 1w0a0d1h, after comes into play, search top 10 cards of deck for mount attachment, put in hand, shuffle. says action, should probably be reaction)
Silver Lamp (attach, cost 2, attach to spirit hero, while attached hero is untapped, your engaged enemies get their shadow cards face up(!))
Power of Orthanc (event, cost 0, doomed 2, every player may select and discard a condition attachment in play(!))

Lore
Messenger from Isengart (ally, cost 2, 1w0a1d2h, gets +1w until EOT after increasing threat from doomed, limit 2x per turn)
Deep Knowledge (event, cost 0, doomed 2, every player draws 2 cards)

Tactics
Westfold Outrider (Vanguard? idunno) (ally, cost 2, 0w2a1d2h action discard to engage an enemy not engaged with you)
Rohan Warhorse (attach, cost 1 attach to rohan or tactics hero, restricted, tap to untap attached hero after a killing attack
Voice of the Wizard (event, cost 0, doomed 3, each player chooses 1 engaged enemy, until end of phase each enemy won't attack the player that selected it)

Neutral
Saruman (lazy, see image gallery)
Orthanc key (attach, cost 1, attach to hero, after increasing threat from doomed, tap key to give attached hero a ressource. Edit: unique. No keychain of Orthanc for joo, Grima.)
Seeing Stone (event, cost 0, doomed 1, search your deck for a card with doomed keyword and add to hand, reshuffle deck)

tl,dr: OMG new anti-shadow tech. OMFG new anti-condition tech.
Only 2 (edit: 3) benefit-from-doomed cards for now, but the doomed cards themselves seem universally pretty strong. And free, seems its largely a "pay threat instead of ressources" thing. Most are also affects-all-players stuff, so the fact that doomed is technically worse with more players is self-regulating

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Give me that Silver Lamp!

Small Target with a hobbit deck just got way better. But having 2 enemies engaged probably means things are not going that well.

Power of Orthanc, really nice to see another way to remove a condition outside of lore.

Doomed keyword looks like it can get out of hand. Here come Aragorn lore and Grima decks, i feel bad for the others guys at the table. Mono tactics is going to be hurting, since it can only rely on threat reduction from Gandalf and what other players can provide. Solo play is no problem though. Aragorn lore and Spirit are the solution.

Would be cool to see tactics get an attachment that lowers threat after destroying an enemy.

Edited by Tracker1

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Is there a window to take advantage of seeing the Shadow cards face up?  Presumably you can't deal them to the enemy you want knowing what they are.  (Or can you?)

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Is there a window to take advantage of seeing the Shadow cards face up? Presumably you can't deal them to the enemy you want knowing what they are. (Or can you?)

Not sure i am interpreting the question completely, but shadow cards are dealt to enemies with the highest engagement cost and then to the next, and next etc. I guess you just go in order, and if 2 enemies have the same cost, decide which enemy the shadow card is going to and place it face up after you have decided, so you do not know what the shadow is before placing it down. No peeking.

Edited by Tracker1
danpoage and scwont like this

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No, unfortunately you can't choose which enemy gets which shadow. You could use cards like Dawn Take You All or Rider of the Mark to get rid of them strategically though. Main reason I want it though is just that it gives you total knowledge for your defensive decisions.

danpoage likes this

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Really like westfold horse breeder, will tie together some nice things.  Seeing stone is going to be OP as well.  Doomed decks in single player where the consequences arent as severe will have the capacity to be really strong

chuckles likes this

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Very interesting to see those titles and actions, and I can't wait to see the artwork. However, I'm a bit confused; I thought there were going to be three heroes in this expansion?

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Very interesting to see those titles and actions, and I can't wait to see the artwork. However, I'm a bit confused; I thought there were going to be three heroes in this expansion?

Where did you get that impression? Not trying to be critical, just curious. I haven't seen that anywhere

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I'm not sure why I had that impression, but I guess it was a false preconception. Maybe it was that mystery character who appeared on the VoI web page and quickly removed, remember?

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Of the non-previously spoiled:

 

Westfold Horse Breeder - seems like an auto-include, in my opinion. It quests for one and can chump block if necessary, so it's includeable on that basis alone, grabbing a mount puts it over the top though.

 

Silver Lamp - Good card, I don't know why they gave it to Spirit, which really limits it. Tactics really needs a card like this (and would be very thematic in them being, you know, tactical... more so than being spirited making you suddenly a master combatant). In most sphere's it'd be an include, but in a Sphere with Hasty Stroke and less of a means to act on that information, I'm not sure if it'll make the cut.

 

Power of Orthanc - Conditionally the strongest Doomed card. *Sigh* so spirit has the best Shadow-cancellation, Treachery-cancellation, and Condition-cancellation? Great card that you won't always play, but I'd keep it in any deck with Spirit because it's basically always worth it if you need it.

 

Voice of the Wizard - I'd say the second best Doomed card. While drawing cards or gaining resource is nice, gaining actions is really good. Also, I'd say that while there might be times where you need cards, or there might be times where you need resources, you almost always can do something with when you free up a blocker, and I think it's a much more universal position. You naturally gain resources and cards, but you naturally lose board position. This helps address that. 

 

Seeing Stone - Is your fourth of a Doomed card, or your second or third of a  Doomed card for a toolbox if it can get either Voice of the Wizard or Power or Orthanc. If it can only get one of Legacy of Numenor or Deep Knowledge, I'd probably just stick with those cards.

 

Overall:

 

Eomer - meh.

Grima - very interesting.

 

Orthanc Guard - Very playable. Only major issue is that leadership decks tend to be highly trait oriented, so he's fighting against deck synergy. That said, he's strong enough to be played despite lack of synergy.

 

Legacy of Numenor - Good. I wouldn't always play it, mind you. But like most Doomed cards, when it is the right decision to play them, they are worth it.

 

Messenger of Isenguard - Meh. Not unplayable, but more of a gap-filler.

 

Deep Knowledge - See Legacy of Numenor

 

Westfield Outrider - Meh. See Messenger of Isenguard.

 

Rohan Warhorse - Yes. Very Yes. 

 

Saruman - Probably the best Doomed card for solo play, probably not worth it for multiplayer as he scales poorly.

 

Orthanc Key - Only Grima would probably play that many Doomed cards.

 

General Thoughts:

 

Grima seems really interesting, and thematically I enjoy the fallen things and broken things, so I'm personally looking forward to him.

 

I love me Tactics, and in my opinion Rohan Warhorse finally gives it a power card that they never had. They were always a good supporting cast before, but now they have a wow factor that the other factions have.

 

Doomed is a mechanic that I really like, at least in theory and at this point, because I feel like it adds a lot of decision making to cards. 

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Power of Orthanc, in addition to being all-around useful, is quite good for Flies and Spiders from The Hobbit: On The Doorstep. Since poison cards count as "Condition" attachments, this could be huge in a multi-player game. It is interesting to see how the changing card pool interacts with past scenarios. I really like that they are using Nightmare Scenarios as a way to adapt old scenarios to the evolving metagame.

 

Also, the warhorse with Háma has the potential to be a game-breaker, especially as new Tactics events are released.

Edited by danpoage

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Of the non-previously spoiled:

 

Silver Lamp - Good card, I don't know why they gave it to Spirit, which really limits it. Tactics really needs a card like this (and would be very thematic in them being, you know, tactical... more so than being spirited making you suddenly a master combatant). In most sphere's it'd be an include, but in a Sphere with Hasty Stroke and less of a means to act on that information, I'm not sure if it'll make the cut.

 

I see what you're saying, and it's a good point, but since all you need is to have it on an untapped Spirit hero (like Glorfindel), I can see a nice Spirit/Tactics deck that makes use of it. Besides Silver Lamp though, I really love the Rohan Warhorse. That card has some great potential.

Downer likes this

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Is there a window to take advantage of seeing the Shadow cards face up? Presumably you can't deal them to the enemy you want knowing what they are. (Or can you?)

Not sure i am interpreting the question completely, but shadow cards are dealt to enemies with the highest engagement cost and then to the next, and next etc. I guess you just go in order, and if 2 enemies have the same cost, decide which enemy the shadow card is going to and place it face up after you have decided, so you do not know what the shadow is before placing it down. No peeking.
I was at work earlier and didn't have the rules. That point hasn't been particularly relevant since up until now the shadow cards are all random. Here is the point I was missing (because it didn't matter heretofore): you chose defenders AFTER the shadow cards are dealt. So yeah, the card can be huge. Regarding it being part of Spirit, I guess it fits because Spirit gets everything. Which is to say, give Tactivs some love FFG.

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Of the non-previously spoiled:

 

Silver Lamp - Good card, I don't know why they gave it to Spirit, which really limits it. Tactics really needs a card like this (and would be very thematic in them being, you know, tactical... more so than being spirited making you suddenly a master combatant). In most sphere's it'd be an include, but in a Sphere with Hasty Stroke and less of a means to act on that information, I'm not sure if it'll make the cut.

 

I see what you're saying, and it's a good point, but since all you need is to have it on an untapped Spirit hero (like Glorfindel), I can see a nice Spirit/Tactics deck that makes use of it. Besides Silver Lamp though, I really love the Rohan Warhorse. That card has some great potential.

 

 

True. Don't get me wrong, I think that it's a very good card. I'm more questioning if there is room for this plus Hasty Stroke, and if not which is better. There are cases for both, but I'm leaning toward Hasty Stroke, ever so slightly.

 

That said Glorfindel, yes. Or any other consistent readying effect that occurs before shadow cards are dealt.

 

Frodo also works well it, as he is usually the designated blocker. I don't own Conflict at Carrock unfortunately, though this does give me reasons to, especially with the Rohan stuff.

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Is there a window to take advantage of seeing the Shadow cards face up? Presumably you can't deal them to the enemy you want knowing what they are. (Or can you?)

Not sure i am interpreting the question completely, but shadow cards are dealt to enemies with the highest engagement cost and then to the next, and next etc. I guess you just go in order, and if 2 enemies have the same cost, decide which enemy the shadow card is going to and place it face up after you have decided, so you do not know what the shadow is before placing it down. No peeking.
I was at work earlier and didn't have the rules. That point hasn't been particularly relevant since up until now the shadow cards are all random. Here is the point I was missing (because it didn't matter heretofore): you chose defenders AFTER the shadow cards are dealt. So yeah, the card can be huge. Regarding it being part of Spirit, I guess it fits because Spirit gets everything. Which is to say, give Tactivs some love FFG.

 

 

There is also an action window between dealing shadow cards and declaring defenders.

 

Yeah, Tactics need some love. I'm trying to think of high-powered cards for Tactics, and really Warhorse is probably it. They are a good Sphere, particularly in multiplayer, but they have the most needs of any Sphere. They feel like they were designed by balancing Spirit, Lore, and Leadership against the Encounter deck, cutting their attack values to the point where it's problematic (Spirit) to slightly problematic, but then gave those factions some power cards and/or synergies to compensate for that, and then lastly took the difference in attack value added whatever mechanics that were left over and called it "Tactics." 

 

 

 

Changing the subject, does Grima impact the evaluation for Resourceful in non-secrecy decks? 3 resources and 1 Doom for a recurring non-unique resource. Yes, it's worse than Steward of Gondor, but I think that's a given (just like every free-action attachment will be worse than Unexpected Courage), but:

 

1) It's neutral.

 

2) Works in multiples and with a Steward of Gondor, 

 

3) 3 neutral resources is a lot sooner than 4 neutral resources and is situationally less taxing than 2 Leadership resources, and

 

4) Played with Grima, it's in a faction with card draw, so it innately has a better chance of being drawn early.

Raven1015 likes this

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Small Target with a hobbit deck just got way better. But having 2 enemies engaged probably means things are not going that well.

 

 

yes, very excited for this!  I seem to end up with plenty of enemies engaged no matter what deck I play, so I guess I am always in trouble :)

 

anyway, works great in any deck with Frodo, whether it's hobbit-centric or not.

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Yeah, Tactics need some love. I'm trying to think of high-powered cards for Tactics, and really Warhorse is probably it. They are a good Sphere, particularly in multiplayer, but they have the most needs of any Sphere. They feel like they were designed by balancing Spirit, Lore, and Leadership against the Encounter deck, cutting their attack values to the point where it's problematic (Spirit) to slightly problematic, but then gave those factions some power cards and/or synergies to compensate for that, and then lastly took the difference in attack value added whatever mechanics that were left over and called it "Tactics."

 

Tactics has been weak form day one, it doesn't just need love.. it needs a complete rethinking in how they design it. There is a strong showing for them in multiplayer and this is the rub, they simply do not have tools to allow solo players to use them. All they need to make tactics viable and open a ton of those player cards to solo players is some songs or attachments or something that can add other icons.

 

One of the great problems in this game is the factions are not really divided across theme or tribes or w.e.. they are divided by utility. Now this is all well and good when you have a way to splash effectively, but tactics just do not have it. Maybe when they get a tactic Aragorn it will open all those aragorn attachments to make splashing less of a chore.

 

The idea of split utility is cool, but not when you consider the solo game. Having an entire set of allies and only 2 of them with over 1 will and 6 at 1 and a whopping 12 at 0 and the heroes not much better is just not viable.

 

Still this split on utility is causing many of the problems in this game. A deck needs to be able to quest and reduce threat... almost beyond all else and I do not think anyone is going to sit there and say spirit is not nearly a must include at some level for solo decks. Lore has some great cards but most importantly it has the Minstrels allowing efficient splashing of songs and all that card draw that makes those clunky decks function very well.

 

As the game progresses this divide in utility is just going to get bigger and bigger separating the spheres until there are very very very few options for solo. Tactics is the worst so far, leadership not far behind.. in fact the only really immune one is Lore with the card draw and the song search..

 

This needs to be addressed at some point.

Edited by booored

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Man spirit got some power cards here. More auto includes in this box for spirit!

Honestly, if you guy use spirit, are not over 75% of the cards you use always the same?

Knowledge is power: silver lamp is a game changer. This thing is auto include.

If not, something is wrong with you. Seriously. Wrong.

I really like the horse breeder. Great utility card.

And power of Orthanc is just as it should be, IMO. Great against certain quests, and scales nicely for multiplayer with it's doomed keyword. Well designed card right there. Powerful, but not too much so.

Edited by Noccus

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Yeah, Tactics need some love. I'm trying to think of high-powered cards for Tactics, and really Warhorse is probably it. They are a good Sphere, particularly in multiplayer, but they have the most needs of any Sphere. They feel like they were designed by balancing Spirit, Lore, and Leadership against the Encounter deck, cutting their attack values to the point where it's problematic (Spirit) to slightly problematic, but then gave those factions some power cards and/or synergies to compensate for that, and then lastly took the difference in attack value added whatever mechanics that were left over and called it "Tactics."

 

Tactics has been weak form day one, it doesn't just need love.. it needs a complete rethinking in how they design it. There is a strong showing for them in multiplayer and this is the rub, they simply do not have tools to allow solo players to use them. All they need to make tactics viable and open a ton of those player cards to solo players is some songs or attachments or something that can add other icons.

 

One of the great problems in this game is the factions are not really divided across theme or tribes or w.e.. they are divided by utility. Now this is all well and good when you have a way to splash effectively, but tactics just do not have it. Maybe when they get a tactic Aragorn it will open all those aragorn attachments to make splashing less of a chore.

 

The idea of split utility is cool, but not when you consider the solo game. Having an entire set of allies and only 2 of them with over 1 will and 6 at 1 and a whopping 12 at 0 and the heroes not much better is just not viable.

 

Still this split on utility is causing many of the problems in this game. A deck needs to be able to quest and reduce threat... almost beyond all else and I do not think anyone is going to sit there and say spirit is not nearly a must include at some level for solo decks. Lore has some great cards but most importantly it has the Minstrels allowing efficient splashing of songs and all that card draw that makes those clunky decks function very well.

 

As the game progresses this divide in utility is just going to get bigger and bigger separating the spheres until there are very very very few options for solo. Tactics is the worst so far, leadership not far behind.. in fact the only really immune one is Lore with the card draw and the song search..

 

This needs to be addressed at some point.

 

 

Well, Leadership is quite good (better than Lore as a primary Sphere, in my opinion, Lore is the better support sphere though). In fact, I think all the non-Tactics races are reasonably close. Spirit is ahead, but it's not ahead in such a way that invalidates other Spheres, i.e. there are plenty of meaningful things that Lore and Leadership can do better than Spirit, they are also better solo than Spirit.

 

While at this point it can only be addressed through card balance, I actually think Tactics problems has more to do with the mechanical set-up of the game and where combat is positioned in it. 

 

Willpower is needed for questing. Questing successfully keeps your threat low. Threat determines when enemies engage you and keeping your threat low reduces enemy engagement. Enemies engaging you less means you can spend more resources questing.

 

On the other hand, lower willpower means failed quests. Failed quests means you increase your threat. Increasing threat means more enemies engage you. More enemies engaging you means fewer resources spent on questing.

 

Both are positive feedback loops, but one is for your deck and the other is for the encounter deck.

 

Now, I think this was a thematic decision. You can't just bully your way to victory, you have to go on some quest. However, mechanically this puts combat at a disadvantage and as more of a support role since it's not progress it's simply damage control.

 

But to be honest, balance-wise I don't think it's a problem (solo mono-Tactics is just one out of many iterations). My issue is more that Tactics always feels like generic.dec rather than a unique creation. You just block and attack, which every deck does, but you do slightly better.

 

There Sphere mechanics are so-so, combat tricks are okayish, but many lack punch do to their design. For example, the abilities that allow a single character to attack the staging area are irrelevant because you typically can't solo an enemy and doing multiple attacks is inefficient considering they usually have at least 1 defense. Weapons are generally less useful than similarly costed allies. Also, their traits are either secondary (despite Theoden and Boromir, Rohan and Gondor are more Spirit and Leadership) or bad (Eagles). 

 

They didn't make out too bad in Heirs. Much better than the Dwarf dominated Khaz and their embarrassing Eagle nonsense in Mirkwood. Dunland Trap doesn't seem especially good, but Voices gives them good things. They are mostly on the right track though.

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I'm not sure how everyone else plays, but generally, I try to engage every enemy as early as possible, because leaving them in the staging area just leads to tears later on.  No matter what spheres I play, unless I'm doing a final questing blitz, I can't afford to let enemies sit in the staging area (with rare exception).

 

While tactics has a hard time questing, the inability to deal with enemies is usually worse for me.  IMHO

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I usually do this as well, unless I'm playing a deck designed on keeping enemies in the staging area (for extra attack, or if traps help keep them there and reduce their threat).

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There is not a single unique ally. Does this mean that that awesome art in the top right corner of the description page is just some objective? :(

Edited by Scroll Lock

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