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Jegergryte

Star Wars: Rebels

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The biker plots/at-dp pilots look like the drivers in the at-st, but more armoured. Take away the frowning faceplate and replace it with goggles while removing the chest armour, and you have the at-st pilot.

 

Nice spot! That goes with the idea that those are Imperial Army scouts (or vehicle crew), not Stormtrooper scouts. You also had an Imperial Officer in that episode wearing field gear that some regard as "Imperial Army".

 

Are those Imperial bikers officially called something yet? Have they been labeled already as Stormtrooper scouts?

 

I know it's a ridiculously small thing to complain about. I loved everything else about Rebels so far. I'm just a big Imperial forces gearhead fan.

Edited by Sturn

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I'm not sure about the animation though, visually I found it lacking in some ways I can't quite put my finger on. The characters were pretty well done as far as the roles and acting goes, dialogue was good, I loved the "rare bald rookie bluff" LMAO! I'm sure thats going to end up at my game table sometime.

 

 

I loved the animation, with one exception, and I suspect that it may be what you found lacking.  The hair and fur were horrible.  Those wookies looked like the action figures from the 80ies, smooth plastic things and not real critters.

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Boom! As if by magic, there's an interesting interview with James Luceno regarding his upcoming Tarkin novel. Touches on a few of the points we've been discussing here.

 

 

Thanks for the link. Great read. My favorite part out of the whole thing:

 

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is no longer canon and Star Wars: Tarkin contradicts it

“We’re going to lead up to A New Hope in a way that may contradict some of the stories that have been told, mostly in The Force Unleashed and books that came out around that videogame.”

 

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There is no Imperial Army separate from the stormtroopers in Feloni's Star Wars.

 

Did Dave Feloni actually state that somewhere?

 

What is Feloni calling these guys (below)? Stormtroopers sans armor? Imperial Navy walker pilots?

 

Atstcrew.jpg

 

Not trying to derail. Legitimately asking for Feloni's answers if they have been given.

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First off, my wife, child, and myself liked the first episode. I also liked that they went with Ralph McQuarrie's style in the art.      But.

 

The scout trooper at first I thought looked great. It's a homage to Ralph and I think most of his art looked better then what we were left with in the movies. So what's my problem? Rebels has become canon so we must accept this scout trooper's armor as what was worn by scouts between the Clone Wars and Episode VI.

 

So we start with:

 

camo_arf.jpg

 

And end with this:

 

ImperialScoutTrooper.png

 

But this was in-between?

 

rebels11.jpg

 

So we are already facing some sort of explanation to explain the radical departure in the middle of the scout trooper armor series. Those really aren't stormtroopers but Imperial Army soldiers? A new corporation got ahold of the scout trooper armor license, designed something completely different, then after an "incident" lost the license again to the original makers? I suppose the big change is the helmet, so perhaps a different model was tried out during Rebels but they later went back to the original model.

 

I'm thinking the former is scout armor – as in wilderness operations – and the latter are in vehicle operations – ergo the similarity to the AT-AT drivers.

 

I don't know why you would expect trained wilderness team to be driving supplies in the city.

Edited by Doc, the Weasel

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I think it is not that there is no imperial army, only that stormtroopers aren't a separate corps, but the frontline troops in the army.

If the at-dp pilots (the ones on the bikes) are the same as the at-st pilots ones, then that makes vehicle crews have different armour than front line troops. The armoured at-dp pilots are more exposed so they get armour. The at-st pilots aren't in the open so they get nothing/the empire decided to save money and not give them armour anymore.

The at-at pilots seem to have environmental suits similar to TIE pilots.

The army WEG said existed, may not, exist anymore. This is fine by me as, except in those crappy old books :P , no video game/fan movie/or lucasfilm movie uses anything but stormtrooper, which rebels seems to reinforce.

Veers and Kallus put armour overtop of their uniforms when in combat situations.

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I'm not sure about the animation though, visually I found it lacking in some ways I can't quite put my finger on. The characters were pretty well done as far as the roles and acting goes, dialogue was good, I loved the "rare bald rookie bluff" LMAO! I'm sure thats going to end up at my game table sometime.

 

 

I loved the animation, with one exception, and I suspect that it may be what you found lacking.  The hair and fur were horrible.  Those wookies looked like the action figures from the 80ies, smooth plastic things and not real critters.

 

I agree.  They didn't look fuzzy enough.

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I'm not sure about the animation though, visually I found it lacking in some ways I can't quite put my finger on. The characters were pretty well done as far as the roles and acting goes, dialogue was good, I loved the "rare bald rookie bluff" LMAO! I'm sure thats going to end up at my game table sometime.

 

 

I loved the animation, with one exception, and I suspect that it may be what you found lacking.  The hair and fur were horrible.  Those wookies looked like the action figures from the 80ies, smooth plastic things and not real critters.

 

I agree.  They didn't look fuzzy enough.

 

Sorta like this?

Wookiee_warrior.jpg

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I'm not sure about the animation though, visually I found it lacking in some ways I can't quite put my finger on. The characters were pretty well done as far as the roles and acting goes, dialogue was good, I loved the "rare bald rookie bluff" LMAO! I'm sure thats going to end up at my game table sometime.

 

 

I loved the animation, with one exception, and I suspect that it may be what you found lacking.  The hair and fur were horrible.  Those wookies looked like the action figures from the 80ies, smooth plastic things and not real critters.

 

I agree.  They didn't look fuzzy enough.

 

Rendering hair takes time, so looks like they took the shortcut of just applying a hair-like texture to the models to speed up the rendering.

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Not quite mate, the novelisations are canon EXCEPT where they contradict what's on screen.

You got a reliable source for that?

 

The statement regarding the new canon was "the existing films, TCW TV series and associated film, and new material published after April 25th, 2014."  No mention made of novelizations or radio dramas, with the radio dramas themselves falling under the label of Legends on Wookieepedia, given how much they differ from the films, with the Wikipedia article reinforcing the "the six films and TCW TV series" and nothing else prior to April 25th, 2014.

 

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind the novelizations being canon, particularly the ones for the prequels, but the announcement seems pretty clear that it's only the films that count.  Which makes sense as the novelizations were written using earlier drafts of the film scripts and include elements that got changed, such as Shaak Ti's death in the RotS novelization, which was filmed twice for the RotS but both scenes being cut.

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Not quite mate, the novelisations are canon EXCEPT where they contradict what's on screen.

You got a reliable source for that?

 

The statement regarding the new canon was "the existing films, TCW TV series and associated film, and new material published after April 25th, 2014."  No mention made of novelizations or radio dramas, with the radio dramas themselves falling under the label of Legends on Wookieepedia, given how much they differ from the films, with the Wikipedia article reinforcing the "the six films and TCW TV series" and nothing else prior to April 25th, 2014.

 

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind the novelizations being canon, particularly the ones for the prequels, but the announcement seems pretty clear that it's only the films that count.  Which makes sense as the novelizations were written using earlier drafts of the film scripts and include elements that got changed, such as Shaak Ti's death in the RotS novelization, which was filmed twice for the RotS but both scenes being cut.

 

Sounds like he's quoting the old rules of Canon which generally tiered the data. Movies > Novels > Games...

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Not quite mate, the novelisations are canon EXCEPT where they contradict what's on screen.

You got a reliable source for that?

 

The statement regarding the new canon was "the existing films, TCW TV series and associated film, and new material published after April 25th, 2014."  No mention made of novelizations or radio dramas, with the radio dramas themselves falling under the label of Legends on Wookieepedia, given how much they differ from the films, with the Wikipedia article reinforcing the "the six films and TCW TV series" and nothing else prior to April 25th, 2014.

 

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind the novelizations being canon, particularly the ones for the prequels, but the announcement seems pretty clear that it's only the films that count.  Which makes sense as the novelizations were written using earlier drafts of the film scripts and include elements that got changed, such as Shaak Ti's death in the RotS novelization, which was filmed twice for the RotS but both scenes being cut.

 

 

Well there's this. I've since heard it discussed many times on podcasts (no I can't cite which).

 

@Kallabecca - Nah. I'm old and befuddled, but I'm not quite that bewildered! Yet.

 

Having re-read that article, I'd say it's still somewhat open to interpretation. Good job these cats all got their heads together and clarified it all huh? ;)

Edited by MrDodger

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I don't know why you would expect trained wilderness team to be driving supplies in the city.

 

 

Or guarded by elite Stormtroopers?

 

Edit: Yes I'm wrong, I now understand they are, "AT-DP pilots", but I don't think I'm the only fan that (without prior research) mis-labeled them as an early Scout trooper - white helmet based upon Stormtrooper art combined with riding a speeder bike.

 

 

If the at-dp pilots (the ones on the bikes) are the same as the at-st pilots ones, then that makes vehicle crews have different armour than front line troops.

 

Thanks for this. I didn't know they were "AT-DP pilots", so there's the answer (I apparently haven't been keeping up to date on my Rebels research). But, is there anything specifying whether AT-DP pilots are Stormtroopers or not? If they aren't, has Filoni stated whether he is regarding them as from the "Army" or the "Navy", or just left it ambiguous? I assume the later.

 

 

The armoured at-dp pilots are more exposed so they get armour. The at-st pilots aren't in the open so they get nothing/the empire decided to save money and not give them armour anymore.

 

Are you saying the Defense Pod is not fully enclosed like the AT-ST but more like one of the Clone Wars era scout walkers? It appears capable of being fully enclosed to me.

 

It makes complete sense to me that they are up-armored vehicle crew. By the time of the AT-ST less armor is being worn or like you speculated, it isn't needed inside a walker. I would remove that face plate and bulky chest armor when I slipped inside my walker. Of course (as you noted) that brings up the Stormtrooper pilots in the AT-AT's. The simple answer is there are Stormtrooper combat pilots (pilot in the FFG sense, it can be a ground vehicle or flying craft) AND there are the non-elite Imperial combat pilots (Army, Navy, or neither - just Imperial). That actually simplifies things for me.

Edited by Sturn

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Not quite mate, the novelisations are canon EXCEPT where they contradict what's on screen.

You got a reliable source for that?

 

The statement regarding the new canon was "the existing films, TCW TV series and associated film, and new material published after April 25th, 2014."  No mention made of novelizations or radio dramas, with the radio dramas themselves falling under the label of Legends on Wookieepedia, given how much they differ from the films, with the Wikipedia article reinforcing the "the six films and TCW TV series" and nothing else prior to April 25th, 2014.

 

Truthfully, I wouldn't mind the novelizations being canon, particularly the ones for the prequels, but the announcement seems pretty clear that it's only the films that count.  Which makes sense as the novelizations were written using earlier drafts of the film scripts and include elements that got changed, such as Shaak Ti's death in the RotS novelization, which was filmed twice for the RotS but both scenes being cut.

 

 

Well there's this. I've since heard it discussed many times on podcasts (no I can't cite which).

 

@Kallabecca - Nah. I'm old and befuddled, but I'm not quite that bewildered! Yet.

 

Having re-read that article, I'd say it's still somewhat open to interpretation. Good job these cats all got their heads together and clarified it all huh? ;)

 

They say this:

 

To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie.

Which is essentially saying nothing. It's like saying, "Awaypturwpn's Star Wars RPG Campaign is canon where it aligns with what is seen onscreen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars."

 

The movies set the canon. The books, where they align with the movies, are canon. But everything else in the books (everything that doesn't appear in the movies & TCW) isn't canon. 

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The movies set the canon. The books, where they align with the movies, are canon. But everything else in the books (everything that doesn't appear in the movies & TCW) isn't canon. 

So in short, at any point where the novels (and presumably the radio dramas as well) don't match what's been shown on the screen, they're Legends.

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Boom! As if by magic, there's an interesting interview with James Luceno regarding his upcoming Tarkin novel. Touches on a few of the points we've been discussing here.

 

 

Thanks for the link. Great read. My favorite part out of the whole thing:

 

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is no longer canon and Star Wars: Tarkin contradicts it

“We’re going to lead up to A New Hope in a way that may contradict some of the stories that have been told, mostly in The Force Unleashed and books that came out around that videogame.”

 

 

Considering what went down at LucasArts before it got shut down, maybe it's okay to rethink the canon. Frankly, The FU was itself an eponymous treatment of the canon that had preceded it, in particular the Zahn novels that established some of the origins of the Rebellion as well. (Based on the WEG material that was out at the time.)

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Considering what went down at LucasArts before it got shut down, maybe it's okay to rethink the canon. Frankly, The FU was itself an eponymous treatment of the canon that had preceded it, in particular the Zahn novels that established some of the origins of the Rebellion as well. (Based on the WEG material that was out at the time.)

Five words about TFU-period LucasArts: Darth Icky and Darth Insanius.

According to GameInformer, these were the actual 'offerings' from George Lucas to TFU's developers when they initially asked him for a formal Sith title for Starkiller. ("Team members involved in the decision to not use these ridiculous Darth titles could not be reached for comment, but three LucasArts employees believe an excuse was made to push the Darth title to the sequel. By the time development on that title commenced, the names were long forgotten by Lucas and weren’t muttered by the development team again.")

An unnamed employee would note that stories like these got out at the time and actually impeded LucasArts' ability to attract developer talent because prospects "thought we were running a madhouse"...

Grand Moff Tarkin has one of the greatest establishing scenes in Star Wars history: you get such an incredible sense of who he is from the Death Star briefing room, so where did you go from there?

Two things struck me about Tarkin, just going back to watching the film. The first was who is this guy who has been placed in command of the Empire’s seemingly ultimate weapon? And the other thing that struck me was his relationship with Darth Vader because they seemed at times to be on kind of a parity with one another.

It’s hard to know who’s in command because there’s a line that Leia, the Princess, utters at some point that makes it seem like Tarkin actually is the guy in charge [“Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash.”]. So those two things, the relationship and the fact that was the commander of this massive weapon, they both provided a jumping off point for what I wanted to get at in the novel.

I wanted to explore Tarkin’s past – what put him in the position where he would be in command of the Death Star, and also how he came to be in that relationship with Vader.

This actually reminds me of a quote from the Essential Guide to Warfare author about how WEG mischaracterized Vader in Episode IV as "the epitome of the Emperor’s New Order", "the tangible evil that the people of the galaxy can see and fear", and in turn created "a good summary of Vader’s role in the popular imagination, but a poor summary of his role in Episode IV — and unfortunately, that summary shaped the portrayal of Vader and key events in the Expanded Universe, closing off a number of very interesting storytelling possibilities in favor of more obvious fare."

In particular, back when the Emperor was treated as a background character in the pre-Episode V years, it appeared in Episode IV that Tarkin was the de facto political authority (complete with the novelization outright attributing to him imperial ambition, and the radio drama even having Motti telling him to make his move) and Vader treated as the henchman -- though one with his own agency and will in spite of Tarkin, of course -- whose infamous Force choking of Motti was actually a sign of insecurity, not an authoritative demonstration of power but rather a cornered lashing out, the "cornered" being due to an environment so unreceptive to the idea of the Force or Vader himself that Motti could even think of taunting Vader about the Force and "the Jedi" in the first place... (That is to say, an environment where Tarkin is so authoritatively regarded that the other officers don't intervene because they assume that Tarkin implicitly wants Vader to choke Motti, but in turn where Vader has to preserve what remains of his own legitimacy by acquiescing to Tarkin's command to release Motti.)

While that's diminished by Episode III's Death Star scene and the other two of the original trilogy movies, it's still intriguing enough that even with the Legends canon's workarounds I'd be interested in how Luceno recreates/represents the Episode IV dynamic that the EGW author describes, especially now that Lucas/Disney sanctioned (through Episode III and the Death Star scene) both the centrality of Vader's ties to the Emperor and the active, primary role of the Emperor to make that centrality actually relevant (as opposed to "the Emperor's sidelined, the fellow officers in the conference room are loyal to Tarkin above Vader, and Tarkin is sufficiently influential and viewed as influential that the officers can plausibly feel emboldened enough for Motti to 'poke the bear' like that, and the officers can feel that Vader has Tarkin's sanction for Vader to try and retaliate against one of Tarkin's chosen in the first place insofar as why they don't stop Vader") yet both the prior and new canon policies treat them just as canonical as each other.

Edited by Chortles

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