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Bloodtooth

Who owns the ship?

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In our game, we, by which I mean I, renamed the Krayt Fang to the Drunken Mynock. I own and pilot it. Money hasn't been an issue with us but, whatever money we earn goes to the ship first and I keep the rest in a "company" account. I did this so that we wouldn't have to deal with a bunch of people deciding to run off and go shopping and spend an entire session just doing that, which really annoys me and it keeps it simple. Plus, I have this unnatural talent for screwing up the GMs plan and managing to steal, I mean procure, the enemies ship and giving it to a crew member and paying them that way, while simultaneously building crew loyalty and expanding my growing pirate fleet. If anyone needs money, I take it out of the company account and give it to them. In our last game, I unloaded some of our illicit goods and negotiated a better deal to help our bodyguard get some better armor.

 

The group is rather trusting leaving the pirate captain in charge of the money. I'm not sure why I'm the group leader, out of all the characters, I'm the worst choice, yet I'm the one keeping our ragtag group together.

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I have a scoundrel in my group with a gambling addiction. He won their ship at the beginning of their first session in a game of rock, paper, scissors against me. He had another PC pilot it since they had better ranks, but the group recognizes it as his ship, even allowing him to name it. When docking in Formos, I levied a 30 credit docking fee and he asked the group to help split it and most of them refused. "Hey, that's your ship, not mine.."

 

It's going to be interesting to see how that dynamic develops as we progress further into the game. I've had another player mention to me outside of the game that he might take advantage of the PCs gambling addiction and try to win the ship away from him.. 

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We've got a Gand Gadgeteer, Twi'lek Scoundrel, Wookie Marauder, Bothan Thief, and Droid Assassin.

 

The Gand entered the captains' cabin when we first acquired the ship, flooded it with highly concentrated amonia gas.  The droid can come and go as it pleases but has no dreams of grandeur, no one else bought Rebreathers, so I'd say the guy who made the captain's cabin uninhabitable to everyone else owns the ship.

 

Just something to consider :P .

I hope that cabin came with an airlock, otherwise the whole ship is uninhabitable.  At best, it now smells like a kitty cat did a number one on the carpet(s).  *sigh* That wasn't the Wookie carpet was it?

 

(IRL I design sensors for lethal toxic gasses.)

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The ship belongs to either the pilot, or to whomever the pilot is indebted to. The rest of the PCs are not passengers, or they would have simply been dropped off at the next stop and expected to pay for the ride. They're not necessarily crew, though that's probably where they should be headed. Crew payment is done as Shares, not percentages. What Share a PC/NPC is worth is negotiated, possibly on a job-by-job basis (unless/until they formally become crewmembers, which might be worth a bonus as further incentive). Seniority tends to affect how many Shares someone gets (e.g., a rookie might start with only half a Share, and still be expected to do a ton of work).Shares can be awarded (by the pilot, or by the controller interest/real person owning the ship) spur of the moment as further incentive. Shares are paid out on completion of each job.

 

UHF and Ghostofman really hit on it. The Ship takes priority over Shares and is Maintained out of Net. Shares, including the Ship's, are paid out of Net. The Ship spends its Shares on Upgrades.

 

Obviously this can lead to Conflict, and this is A Good Thing. Especially when you consider who actually pays out the Shares. If the PCs are paid by the Controlling Authority then that's that. If the Third Party pays the PCs directly after the job, and the pilot then divvies up Shares, then there's opportunity to stiff not only the PCs (since the Ship has to be Maintained/Repaired), but the Controlling Interest. And what happens when you Dump Cargo? Good times all around, to be sure.

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I don't think there should be rules for this situation. This is the kind of thing that makes for great roleplaying. Let the players fight it out and come up with a solution on their own.

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In our game the ship isn't the property of the party. They took it from a politician on Coruscant they blackmailed and who is now blackmailing them in return. "You got dirt on me? Well, I got dirt on you now too!"

Eventually he is going to want his ship and his R2 unit (one of the PC's) back.

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I don't think there should be rules for this situation. This is the kind of thing that makes for great roleplaying. Let the players fight it out and come up with a solution on their own.

With all due respect, no it doesn't. Quite the opposite. This is the difference between player knowledge and character knowledge. The rest of the party knows that they can mess with the ship-owning player and he'll have to buckle to keep the group together. I would and I have left groups over this. (It's logical for the character to leave, and I'm not rolling up another character, especially when we need a freighter captain, only to have the same thing happen again)

 

As someone who's actually worked as a commercial operator, let me put it this way: There is no debate. You pay my fees or I'm leaving (actually, I never show up to begin with). Try arguing with a cabbie or moving company some time. Especially try doing it after the fact. I've seen people arrested for it (don't argue with cabbies in the Middle East).

 

Think it through. The character who owns the ship is either a member of the group or he is not. If he is, you have to pay upkeep on the ship, even though he owns it. You all get the benefits of it being there and it is far and away the most expensive asset the group has. Everyone else gets to spend credits on new toys and increasing their station in life, but the pilot is mired in maintenance, docking and customs fees? I don't think so. Refusing to pay upkeep sends a strong message that the pilot is not part of the group.

 

There are two outcomes here: Expect to get a bill for room & board, transport fees, etc. Or, and this is what would actually happen, a visit from the local port authority for failure to pay a fare, followed by the pilot leaving, and probably taking your stuff to recoup his losses. Seriously, in a galaxy-spanning environment where it's so easy to make money and the guy has his own transportation, he's not going to stay with a group of aliens without a contrived excuse, get shot at, and get stuck with the bills. Would you? When you say yes, you're thinking as a player trying to keep the gang together, not as a character with bills to pay.

 

What do you think would happen if the pilot was an NPC you had to keep on retainer? You don't think his fee includes all those costs?

 

Or the pilot is the leader of the group, in which case it's still not up for debate, because he can always find the crew he needs for a given job and he sets what everyone's share is. I generally wouldn't recommend watching reality TV, but watch Deadliest Catch.

 

And as for the player that wants to take advantage of the player whose character has a gambling addiction... Discourage him from doing that. To quote Han, Yeah, but who's going to fly it? If you want to play up his gambling addiction and take his ship, you have an NPC do it, then you adventure to get it back. When you let a PC do it those PCs can't ever work together again. You're not friends with your bookie or the guy you just lost your house to or your ride to. Now, if the guys grew up together or have known each other for years, and it's become a running gag that they keep losing the ship back and forth to each other, sure.

 

Great opportunities for role-playing should not result in PCs drawing down on each other, and that's exactly what would happen in the SW universe, especially out on the Rim.

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I don't think there should be rules for this situation. This is the kind of thing that makes for great roleplaying. Let the players fight it out and come up with a solution on their own.

With all due respect, no it doesn't. The rest of the party knows that they can mess with the ship-owning player and he'll have to buckle to keep the group together. I would and I have left groups over this.

 

There is no debate. You pay my fees or I'm leaving.

 

There are two outcomes here.

 

Or the pilot is the leader of the group, in which case it's still not up for debate

 

Sorry to just quote some snippets but... Seriously, come on dude.

Isn't it a bit over the top with the whole "my way is the right way and you are wrong to disagree"-attitude?

 

When I read posts like yours, filled with horrible past experiences, severe and strict rules that Ensure your presence at the table and advocating charging game money to your team mates  then I feel that "your way" would never be necessary in "our game" because I play my games with mutually respectful adults that want the others to enjoy themselves.

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In our new game, kicking off this weekend (I'm excited), technically my Corellian Bounty Hunter owns the ship. BUT! My Bounty Hunter's Obligation is to the Pilot of our group and me and the player agree that the characters see each other as brothers and likewise see the ship as theirs. The Doctor (played by my wife) will have been hired prior to the start of the game, and my Bounty Hunter is on contract with her to be a bodyguard. The last player is a FSE that is stowing away on our ship and we are basically hiding him from the Empire. So the other two players don't mind the deal with the ship and me and the Smuggler have agreed to keep it ours, I like using the expression I am Chewie to his Han.

 

- J

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I don't think there should be rules for this situation. This is the kind of thing that makes for great roleplaying. Let the players fight it out and come up with a solution on their own.

With all due respect, no it doesn't. The rest of the party knows that they can mess with the ship-owning player and he'll have to buckle to keep the group together. I would and I have left groups over this.

 

There is no debate. You pay my fees or I'm leaving.

 

There are two outcomes here.

 

Or the pilot is the leader of the group, in which case it's still not up for debate

 

Sorry to just quote some snippets but... Seriously, come on dude.

Isn't it a bit over the top with the whole "my way is the right way and you are wrong to disagree"-attitude?

 

When I read posts like yours, filled with horrible past experiences, severe and strict rules that Ensure your presence at the table and advocating charging game money to your team mates  then I feel that "your way" would never be necessary in "our game" because I play my games with mutually respectful adults that want the others to enjoy themselves.

 

I've had exactly three bad gaming experiences in almost 30 years of gaming, so I'm pretty comfortable.

 

Trying to narrow it down to me claiming "my way or the high way" is a gross mis-characterization. I provided reasons, you attacked me. You can keep that. It's not about "ensuring my presence at the table". There are people here advocating how to take advantage of their team mates, but apparently me pointing this out makes me a bad guy? I don't think so. As a player, yeah, I'd be pretty ticked if my teammates conspired to steal my ship. As a character, there would be consequences. What kind depends on my character and what the circumstances were. Regardless, it would result in the characters not working together any more. A co-worker stealing your car doesn't mean you guys go grab a beer.

 

There's give and take at the table, things you can do and things that you can't. A lot of times stuff that we see and people refer to as "good role-playing" really isn't. Staying in character, those incidents result in the party breaking up. Hey, sometimes it happens, sometimes you have to roll a new character. Sometimes it's a case of the people thinking they can do it because it's a game, though in reality they would never do something like that.

 

It's interesting that you accuse me of charging PCs, but feel it's perfectly okay for them to do the same. Maybe you could try justifying your reasoning? You think it was okay for the group to tell the captain that he owns the ship, he pays the port fees, even though they're in port because *they* wanted to be there, but it's not okay for him to then charge for room and board? They set the arrangement, not him.

 

Like I said, if he's part of the group, it should be a non-issue. If he's not part of the group, then don't be surprised when you get the bill. This is *the* difference between having a personal license and a commercial license. On a personal license, you can charge everyone their pro-rated share and nothing more. On a commercial license, you charge whatever you can get.

 

Step back and look at this from the characters' points of view. A ship captain has bills, plain and simple. The first time he meets the party, he's going to quote a price that covers those operating costs and also includes profit for him. This is what you expect. Realistically he's leaving when the job is done, especially if he's getting shot at. If things transpire where everyone wants him to stay, and he wants to as well, those bills still have to be paid. Making him pay fees and maintenance from his own coffers results in the party being stranded. Again, realistically, he'd just leave.

 

It's consistent with everyone else's expectations. When someone quotes you for a service you know they have operating costs and you know they're included. It's not like you're buddy giving you a ride to work. (which, incidentally, frequently involves gas money when it becomes recurring)

 

You know Han was being paid. You see him being paid. ANH and ESB it's not even up for debate. ROTJ it's debatable. He still wasn't a True Believer. After he becomes a General in the NR he's definitely getting paid, they just stopped talking about it. Unless we believe that military commanders and politicians suddenly stopped getting paid?

 

So, sure, let the players sit down and talk it out, but anything different from some form of the group paying upkeep and fees is really just the players gaming the other player. The *players* might do that, but the *characters* would not.

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On a personal note, maybe you could quote in context? Because using snippets makes us both look bad. You presented those snippets as me, out of character, saying that, when in point of fact, that would be in character, for any pilot, and that's how I presented it. Again, I've worked as a commercial operator.

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On a personal note, maybe you could quote in context? Because using snippets makes us both look bad.

 

Trying to narrow it down to me claiming "my way or the high way" is a gross mis-characterization. I provided reasons, you attacked me.

Dude, I said "I'm sorry to quote some snippets" so I think it would have been pretty obvious to anyone what went on. Also, I figure they will have read it once they got to my post.

I however did not attack you at all, nor did I mean to do that.

 

 

I've had exactly three bad gaming experiences in almost 30 years of gaming, so I'm pretty comfortable.

 I'm happy to read this. your post had me believing you not only had bad experiences but extremely bad experiences.

There are people here advocating how to take advantage of their team mates, but apparently me pointing this out makes me a bad guy? I don't think so. As a player, yeah, I'd be pretty ticked if my teammates conspired to steal my ship. As a character, there would be consequences. What kind depends on my character and what the circumstances were. Regardless, it would result in the characters not working together any more. A co-worker stealing your car doesn't mean you guys go grab a beer.

 

I totally agree.

 

There's give and take at the table, things you can do and things that you can't. A lot of times stuff that we see and people refer to as "good role-playing" really isn't. Staying in character, those incidents result in the party breaking up. Hey, sometimes it happens, sometimes you have to roll a new character. Sometimes it's a case of the people thinking they can do it because it's a game, though in reality they would never do something like that.

Agree.

It's interesting that you accuse me of charging PCs, but feel it's perfectly okay for them to do the same.

 

How do you reckon that I would feel that would be okay? I don't.

 

On a personal license, you can charge everyone their pro-rated share and nothing more. On a commercial license, you charge whatever you can get.

I can't imagine anyone playing like that. I just wouldn't welcome it at my table. That is all.

Step back and look at this from the characters' points of view. A ship captain has bills, plain and simple. The first time he meets the party, he's going to quote a price that covers those operating costs and also includes profit for him. This is what you expect. Realistically he's leaving when the job is done, especially if he's getting shot at. If things transpire where everyone wants him to stay, and he wants to as well, those bills still have to be paid. Making him pay fees and maintenance from his own coffers results in the party being stranded. Again, realistically, he'd just leave.

 

I have never played like this. Ever.

I am not saying you are doing it wrong or telling you to change your way of playing. Enjoy the game all you want. Howver, n this scenario the captain feels like an employee instead of a party member. I like the games where the players form a team that do not pay each other but split the gains and survive together.

 

You know Han was being paid. You see him being paid.

And I saw him return. Establishing above all that kinship and a cause actually meant something to him and he was more than the designated driver.

So, sure, let the players sit down and talk it out, but anything different from some form of the group paying upkeep and fees is really just the players gaming the other player.

 

I agree, but could aso never imagine gaming like that either. So while you think you are making perfectly valid arguments towards what others are saying I am saying that neither style of play appeals to me and therefr I did not think it weird to give my opinion. I in no way wanted to attack you or be rude. If it did come across as such then I humbly appologize.

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I just think it comes down to basic honesty I guess...

Having a pilot "own the ship" doesn't seem to be in keeping with the way the game is laid out in the rules. The game states "the party gets a ship", not "the pilot gets a ship" and thus giving him 120.000 more starting credits because of it. That seems ridiculous in my opinion.

This would not make him just one of the crew, not someone getting his fair share of whatever fortune the players come into, or whatever trouble they encounter.

It would make him a contractor that starts of with 120.000credits more than the rest and then demands pay.

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When I read posts like yours, filled with horrible past experiences, severe and strict rules that Ensure your presence at the table and advocating charging game money to your team mates  then I feel that "your way" would never be necessary in "our game" because I play my games with mutually respectful adults that want the others to enjoy themselves.

 

 

Although Hombre did not put it very well, he does have a point. After all FFG have decided to start their SW franchise by getting us to play the scum of the universe, ie Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, Mercenaries, Scoundrels, Thieves, Hackers, Politicians and probably a few lawyers as well. None of these types are exactly the Leia Orgaana of the local Womans Institute are they? If they wanted that they should have started with Age of Rebellion. Also virtually all the light freighters only need two crew to get by.

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Let me try to clarify a little bit. When I said the difference between a personal and commercial license is the ability to charge, I'm talking about the real world. In a gaming context I can easily imagine it being the same.

 

I'm right there with you in wanting the pilot to be a part of the team, but you have to be realistic about it. If he's the only one that's paying for gas, port fees, registration, maintenance (and even upgrades) then he's going to be unhappy with not having money to spend on fun like everyone else. Even if he's not, the party is going to end up getting stranded because he won't always have enough/make enough to cover upkeep.

 

Really, imagine the conversations. Heck, have your players sit down and do it. Introduce a brand new pilot. Unless he's completely shirking his responsibility, that is, not even remotely playing in character (and that is bad role-playing), that character is going to be just like Han in ANH: Here's my rate. If things go well and he stays, upkeep has to be dealt with and the only fair way to do it is for everyone to contribute equally. It's not even hard to do it.

 

Now, if you, as a GM, don't want to worry about finances, that's different. It's like playing D&D and no one ever buys food. Some groups just don't track the piddly stuff and I'm cool with that. But the questions was posed: Who pays for it? So it's important to some people. For those people, there's only one way to do it. It's not about keeping a player at the table, but keeping the character in the group. The characters have to have motivation. Screwing each other over, whether it's stiffing on the tab or conspiring to steal a ship, might be fun for the players, but it absolutely destroys the characters working together.

 

I'll try to keep these relatively short.

 

I was playing an old school Ranger in AD&D with a new group. This group was a bunch of power gamers. Tons of high power spells and magic items. Kill one monster after another. Not particularly interesting. I never got to participate in any fighting because they were such a well-oiled machine that the big beastie was always dead before it was my turn. Well, they messed up and I had a chance. I had a bead on a dragon, arrow sighted, called shot to the eyeball. I rolled two natural 20s in a row (the DM required a second one) for the hit, then rolled max damage (complete with absurd bonuses that this group had given me because they felt I was under-powered). Killed the dragon and they were ticked. Shortly after we broke for dinner. The guy who invited me took me aside to let me know that the group felt that I was a power gamer and they didn't want me playing any more. I rolled a grand total of three dice in five hours. I literally laughed out loud and said okay and left.

 

With another group I was playing a WEG Jedi in ANH era. I asked if it was okay and the GM said sure, no problem. First time I went to use my lightsaber he informed me that it had been stolen. Apparently it happened the day before. Apparently I never noticed being bumped into in a non-busy place. I couldn't find supplies to build a new one even if I had known how (apparently I had forgotten how I did it the first time). The group wouldn't help me find it, either immediately or after the mission. So my character went off on his own to find it, which resulted in him leaving the party.

 

Same group, I had a WEG tramp freighter captain. Same sort of stuff we've been talking about here. I wasn't saying they had to pay me. I was saying they had to help with costs. They wouldn't and we got stranded on Nal Hutta. That is, I got stranded on Nal Hutta. I was back with the ship trying to get it working and then out of impound while they were off on a mission, and they went off-world. I took what was supposed to be a quick side mission for a little cash and a part and ended up never seeing the party again. A short while later I left the group.

 

"The party gets a ship" is just a bad rule if that's all there is. Someone has to own it (and it really shouldn't be a 120K ship, it should be 40K used, tops). If it's a benefactor/creditor of some sort that's cool, but it still comes down to one person owning it. I don't know about you guys, but I would never let a player start with a ship free and clear.

 

Dante, I don't know your gaming experiences, but here's some of mine. Games in high tech environments frequently start off with some players having expensive, high tech gear, including starships. It's generally understood that the character is not just now striking out on his own. Luke may have been 1st Level, but Han sure as heck was not. There's nothing ridiculous about it, and is really just an opportunity for adventure. Looks like you have a nice ship. Too bad you couldn't outrun that customs corvette and had to dump your cargo before they boarded you. Looks like the Hutts have put a bounty on you. Again. Or maybe you did lose the pink slip in a game of sabaac, but you decided to skedaddle before paying up, and now he's after you. There's lots to on out there.

 

That said, if "the party gets the ship" then "the party pays the upkeep." I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

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Let me try to clarify a little bit. When I said the difference between a personal and commercial license is the ability to charge, I'm talking about the real world. In a gaming context I can easily imagine it being the same.

I'm right there with you in wanting the pilot to be a part of the team, but you have to be realistic about it. If he's the only one that's paying for gas, port fees, registration, maintenance (and even upgrades) then he's going to be unhappy with not having money to spend on fun like everyone else. Even if he's not, the party is going to end up getting stranded because he won't always have enough/make enough to cover upkeep.

You seem to be getting back to this every time. Who is having this trouble and couldn't deal with it at the table on top of that?

Really, imagine the conversations. Heck, have your players sit down and do it. Introduce a brand new pilot. Unless he's completely shirking his responsibility, that is, not even remotely playing in character (and that is bad role-playing), that character is going to be just like Han in ANH: Here's my rate. If things go well and he stays, upkeep has to be dealt with and the only fair way to do it is for everyone to contribute equally. It's not even hard to do it.

So, in this scenario I have to imagine quite a few things. First, the characters start of as strangers. Second, the pilot is brand new and unfamiliar with the others. Third, the party want to hire a ship/pilot. Fourth, we go straight into book keeping. Fifh, negations about money for gas need to be roleplayed to such an extend that would bore the tears from the eyes of everyone at the table. (Isn't that, really, bad roleplaying, I might ask?) You see why I don't get the problem? There sure are a lot of ifs in this scenario. A little down the road you start talking about realism, how real is the above scenario?

Now, if you, as a GM, don't want to worry about finances, that's different.

Or, you know, I am used to playing with adults for whom the thought of having the pilot pay for everything (even though he doesn't own the ship) would never even cross their minds.

It's like playing D&D and no one ever buys food. Some groups just don't track the piddly stuff and I'm cool with that. But the questions was posed: Who pays for it? So it's important to some people. For those people, there's only one way to do it.

No. There is not only one way to do it. Again you push your game as THE game. What works for you or me might not work for others at all.

It's not about keeping a player at the table, but keeping the character in the group. The characters have to have motivation. Screwing each other over, whether it's stiffing on the tab or conspiring to steal a ship, might be fun for the players, but it absolutely destroys the characters working together.

Again a lot of ifs and buts go into this. If the pilot is responsible for upkeep of the ship and gas, perhaps the technician is for the droids, or the medic for his bacta, etc. There could be many ways to go about this stuff, but you immediately get into this righteous anger about pilots and their fees and upkeep which to me just seemed a bit out of place. You're making assumptions that really have no support as far as I can tell. All you do is say "that's wrong". While a little further in the post you actually critize the system as it is written on top of that with another opinion disguised as a fact, I'll remind you when we get there...

I was playing an old school Ranger in AD&D with a new group. This group was a bunch of power gamers. Tons of high power spells and magic items. Kill one monster after another. Not particularly interesting. I never got to participate in any fighting because they were such a well-oiled machine that the big beastie was always dead before it was my turn. Well, they messed up and I had a chance. I had a bead on a dragon, arrow sighted, called shot to the eyeball. I rolled two natural 20s in a row (the DM required a second one) for the hit, then rolled max damage (complete with absurd bonuses that this group had given me because they felt I was under-powered). Killed the dragon and they were ticked. Shortly after we broke for dinner. The guy who invited me took me aside to let me know that the group felt that I was a power gamer and they didn't want me playing any more. I rolled a grand total of three dice in five hours. I literally laughed out loud and said okay and left.

Sounds like a sad group of gamers if you ask me. However, I fail to see the relevance to the discussion at hand.

With another group I was playing a WEG Jedi in ANH era. I asked if it was okay and the GM said sure, no problem. First time I went to use my lightsaber he informed me that it had been stolen. Apparently it happened the day before. Apparently I never noticed being bumped into in a non-busy place. I couldn't find supplies to build a new one even if I had known how (apparently I had forgotten how I did it the first time). The group wouldn't help me find it, either immediately or after the mission. So my character went off on his own to find it, which resulted in him leaving the party.

So, your lightsaber prevailed over the rest of the party and your character left? And that is somehow the fault of the others? Or were they being assholes and made you feel unwelcome? I really don't see what these anecdotes bring to the discussion we are having to be honest...

Same group, I had a WEG tramp freighter captain. Same sort of stuff we've been talking about here. I wasn't saying they had to pay me. I was saying they had to help with costs. They wouldn't and we got stranded on Nal Hutta. That is, I got stranded on Nal Hutta. I was back with the ship trying to get it working and then out of impound while they were off on a mission, and they went off-world. I took what was supposed to be a quick side mission for a little cash and a part and ended up never seeing the party again. A short while later I left the group.

Are you sure these guys wanted you at their table? I am not trying to be rude here but it comes across as them trying to make you miserable and having you leave on your own accord without them having to man up and kick you out of their game. Edited by DanteRotterdam

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"The party gets a ship" is just a bad rule if that's all there is. Someone has to own it (and it really shouldn't be a 120K ship, it should be 40K used, tops). If it's a benefactor/creditor of some sort that's cool, but it still comes down to one person owning it. I don't know about you guys, but I would never let a player start with a ship free and clear.

Remember that reminder a few paragraphs up? This is what it was for. It is neither a bad rule nor does "someone need to own it". Also the ship you get is 120.000credits as per the rules. Of course you can houserule these things but don't say that it is wrong, or bad or that it needs to be "my way".

Games in high tech environments frequently start off with some players having expensive, high tech gear, including starships.

Not the game we are discussing here. Here the starting capital is quit slim, however the party gets a ship to begin with

It's generally understood that the character is not just now striking out on his own. Luke may have been 1st Level, but Han sure as heck was not.

No idea, what this means. Of course a player in an rpg isn't just now stricking out on his own. That would be one boring rpg... But then you use that Luke and Han level thing to illustrate it.... I really don't get your point here. You could use the back story easily by having it involve the ship become the propertymof the group. Perhaps they stole it, borrowed it, bought it with combined capital, etc. Not many captains own the ship they command.

There's nothing ridiculous about it, and is really just an opportunity for adventure. Looks like you have a nice ship. Too bad you couldn't outrun that customs corvette and had to dump your cargo before they boarded you. Looks like the Hutts have put a bounty on you. Again. Or maybe you did lose the pink slip in a game of sabaac, but you decided to skedaddle before paying up, and now he's after you. There's lots to on out there.

yeah... Okay... Great. I guess...

That said, if "the party gets the ship" then "the party pays the upkeep." I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Hey we agree on something! :)

May I ask, did you play EotE already? I assume you haven't am I correct?

Edited by DanteRotterdam

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Maybe your idea of roleplaying is to just make stuff up even when it doesn't make any sense. Yes, it's escapism, but your roles also have to be believable. In no way have you come up with any alternative that's even remotely believable. Instead, you insist that I'm trying to push my way or the highway. All I'm saying is to stop and think about the situation and realize what would actually happen. I'm still waiting for someone to offer an alternative, let alone offering one that has some chance of actually being equitable and working.

 

After re-reading your responses, you really have no idea what you're talking. Sorry to have to be explicit, but considering your derogatory responses there's really nothing else to say. You guys are advocating screwing over your own players and characters and saying that's it's good role-playing. You've mis-characterized most of what I've said, and several times come out and said you don't understand what I'm saying. Good luck with your gaming.

 

I thought the anecdotes would just be kind of humorous and lighten the mood since there seems to be a belief that I've had nothing but bad experiences when nothing could be further. I still have no idea how you got the "so the lightsaber prevailed?" line.

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Don't bother responding. There were so many attacks in your post that you've proven that you're not worth talking to. Playing with adults? Please. Mutual respect? That's what I've been advocating the entire time, yet you seem to think that that's achieved by belittle people that don't agree with you.

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Don't bother responding. There were so many attacks in your post that you've proven that you're not worth talking to. Playing with adults? Please. Mutual respect? That's what I've been advocating the entire time, yet you seem to think that that's achieved by belittle people that don't agree with you.

I would suggest that you exercise your ability to Ignore posters that you find unpleasant. If you'd like help finding out how to do that (it's buried under a few clicks), just send me a PM.

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Don't bother responding. There were so many attacks in your post that you've proven that you're not worth talking to. Playing with adults? Please. Mutual respect? That's what I've been advocating the entire time, yet you seem to think that that's achieved by belittle people that don't agree with you.

Wow... Just... Wow. What attacks? We were having a discussion on something where we are not having the same opinion?

You would be wise to look at what you write and then think about who exactly makes the attacks here.

How is me telling you that I game with adults in any way an attack? Also telling someone they need not bother reply because you don't like what they are telling you. Such arrogance, if that was your behaviour at those gaming tables then no wonder you got frozen out.

Maybe your idea of roleplaying is to just make stuff up even when it doesn't make any sense.
what in my reply didn't make sense? Be implicit.
Yes, it's escapism, but your roles also have to be believable. In no way have you come up with any alternative that's even remotely believable.
Again, what was wrong with the examples I gave, you do realize you are still doing the "only my way of gaming is correct" thing.
Instead, you insist that I'm trying to push my way or the highway.
well... You are. Even now.
All I'm saying is to stop and think about the situation and realize what would actually happen. I'm still waiting for someone to offer an alternative, let alone offering one that has some chance of actually being equitable and working.
I suggest you take the blinders of your eyes and reread the replies others have given. You know, the ones you struck down as "bad fun"! (Perhaps this was somewhat crude but apperently no matter how much I sugarcoat things they are still perceived as attacks anyway.)
After re-reading your responses, you really have no idea what you're talking.
I am not the one that had to leave two gaming groups or is telling others to play the game his way or otherwise they would be doing it wrong.
Sorry to have to be explicit, but considering your derogatory responses there's really nothing else to say.
right....
You guys are advocating screwing over your own players and characters and saying that's it's good role-playing.
For the love of god.... I never advocated such a thing. All I've said was that you pushed your concept unto others too much and you keep doing that. No players at my table ever get screwed by the others.
You've mis-characterized most of what I've said, and several times come out and said you don't understand what I'm saying.
Yeah.. About those attacks... You have some balls coming up with such a statement right after stating I advocate players screwing each other over, and I don't see why saying I don't understand a certain part of someone's post is a bad thing.
Good luck with your gaming.
Thanks, you to.
I thought the anecdotes would just be kind of humorous and lighten the mood since there seems to be a belief that I've had nothing but bad experiences when nothing could be further. I still have no idea how you got the "so the lightsaber prevailed?" line.
Mind you, that was not a line. It was a question. I was trying to understand what the point was of making a character and then immediately leaving the party to search for parts for a new lightsaber. Must be that "realism" you are so fond of. Edited by DanteRotterdam

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To DanteRotterdam and Hombre, please cool it guys. You obviously do not get each other and never will, so leave the backbiting at the table.

 

However we are talking about potentially a 120,000 credit ship and who supplies it or owns it. It seems to me that FFG were still playing the beginning scenario from the Beginners box when they were designing the Beta and have never got out of that thinking. If the PC's steal their ship then they all own it, thats fine. However what is not in the rules is how much the Captain or Group charge passngers or for cargo on a regular run. Is it so much per parsec, per sector, per planet on a hyperspace route, what?

 

As far as I can make out in Star Wars 4 Luke's speeder new, would have cost 4500 credits. Assuming he got only a quarter of that and that paying Han for transport to Alderaan cost them nearly all the money means that it must have cost 1100 credits or so for him and Obi-Wan together. However it would be nice to get some figures on this, for those trips where there isn't a paying customer to shift drugs or mass murderers to other locations.

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It sounds like some groups/GMs are too focused on the nuances of ship ownership and meta gaming a bit too much. This is Star Wars, not Sim Starship. It's probable your group would rather be out adventuring rather than calculating passenger rates and maintenance fee responsibilities. If these things were that important to the game then I'm confident that FFG would have put it in the book. 

 

I also feel like the 'owner' of the ship is determined by how each individual group defines their origins. Is this a group that has worked together for years as cargo transporters? Then they likely 'co-own' the vessel as a group. Are they newly united via individual circumstances that brought them together? Then one of them likely had their own vessel that brought them here. Either way, let the group decide who owns it. If they are unable/unwilling, then they will likely accept what the GM decides.  

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It sounds like some groups/GMs are too focused on the nuances of ship ownership and meta gaming a bit too much. This is Star Wars, not Sim Starship. It's probable your group would rather be out adventuring rather than calculating passenger rates and maintenance fee responsibilities. If these things were that important to the game then I'm confident that FFG would have put it in the book. 

 

I also feel like the 'owner' of the ship is determined by how each individual group defines their origins. Is this a group that has worked together for years as cargo transporters? Then they likely 'co-own' the vessel as a group. Are they newly united via individual circumstances that brought them together? Then one of them likely had their own vessel that brought them here. Either way, let the group decide who owns it. If they are unable/unwilling, then they will likely accept what the GM decides.

Thank you!

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