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Wave 4: What it means for us and FFG

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There are EU source material that dwarf the creative output of Lucas and lap him in interest.

I would rather they put the Thrawn Trilogy to film over any production we've had since ROTJ.....and what we'll get from Disney.

Any purist who has given that trilogy a read and dismisses it needs to be flogged with a trout.

FLOGGED WITH A TROUT.

Hahahaha that's going to have me cackling for awhile :P

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I'm under the impression it tends to be a 5 year license. But, until Disney acquires a company that will make games like the ones FFG is making, I'm not too worried. If they did own a company that makes RPGs and Collectible Games, then yeah, FFG's license would be toast. Just look at Dark Horse with their decades long history with LFL. Disney likes things in house. And really, there were warning signs with WOTC dropping the signs. I know I ignored them, since it seemed to be a stupid idea to drop it. And I do foresee a FFG wanting to stick with the license for a while, since X-wing is a such a huge hit.

 

And really, Lucasarts was a different situation. To call it a shell of it's former self would be a complement. What they did, was put it out of it's misery.

A good example would be Disney announcing that they were moving the Star Wars comic book license from Dark Horse (who by all accounts has done a phenomenal job with it) over to Marvel.  This makes all kinds of sense for them.  Marvel is an even bigger operation, already up and running, with a bigger budget and more exposure.  It also opens the door for all kinds of crazy tie-ins or anything they might eventually want to do.

 

I think they're making Star Wars stuff for Disney Infinity, in addition to Marvel Infinity.  Say they wanted to do a comic book adaptation that crosses over all these different franchises.  If Dark Horse owns the rights to all Star Wars comic books, and they want to do an Infinity comic book that includes their Star Wars Infinity stuff, that gets problematic.  Move it in under the Disney umbrella, and if just clears a lot of hurdles for them even though I think they were thrilled with how Dark Horse treated the Star Wars license over the years.

 

Most of FFG's Star Wars stuff just really doesn't seem to apply.  There have been CCGs before, the the LCG is a proven model that a lot of other companies are now blatantly copying, and the Star Wars one is a beast.  Lots of RPGs out there, but I can't think of another company putting out the kind of consistent quality that FFG does - hell, Games Workshop took the RPG rights for Warhammer AWAY from someone and gave it to FFG, who now does all of the Games Workshop property RPGs.  There are other miniatures companies out there, and there have been stabs at Star Wars tabletop space combat before, but none have been the kind of crossover phenomenon that X-Wing has become, drawing in gamers and Star Wars fans from all fronts.  

 

As protective as they are of their license and image, you think they're going to shut down X-Wing and farm it out to WizKids or something?  Especially knowing that FFG owns the FlightPath system, presumably wouldn't give it to them for a new Star Wars miniatures game, and would undoubtedly turn around and use it to put out a new Battlefleet Gothic game or something nuts.  They're certainly not going to give it to Games Workshop, who are a mess these days, managing their own properties.

 

Anyway it's just not worth worrying about.  What are you going to do if the license does expire and not get renewed?  Do you think there's anything you can do to prevent it if they decide they can make more millions elsewhere?  The game is here now, it's hot, they seem to be rolling and coming out with new stuff all the time, enjoy the ride.

 

Well put mate. 

I just hope FF can keep pumping out X-wing waves and make the most of the licence and get lots of nice ships for us so when Disney decides they want more $$ than FF is willing to pay, us fans will hopefully have lots of choices for a good deep meta game to last for years to come.

The last thing I want is for what WB did to Babylon 5 or Fox did to Firefly....

"This has all happened before, and will all happen again."

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I just hope FF can keep pumping out X-wing waves and make the most of the licence and get lots of nice ships for us so when Disney decides they want more $$ than FF is willing to pay, us fans will hopefully have lots of choices for a good deep meta game to last for years to come.


The last thing I want is for what WB did to Babylon 5 or Fox did to Firefly....


"This has all happened before, and will all happen again."


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I just hope FF can keep pumping out X-wing waves and make the most of the licence and get lots of nice ships for us so when Disney decides they want more $$ than FF is willing to pay, us fans will hopefully have lots of choices for a good deep meta game to last for years to come.

The last thing I want is for what WB did to Babylon 5 or Fox did to Firefly....

"This has all happened before, and will all happen again."

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Heh.  *cough*  I think Star Wars is a slightly different beast than Babylon 5 or Firefly.

Babylon 5 did actually have quite a good miniatures game, in a bigger scale (capital ships were the norm, fighter squads came 2-5 little ships on a single base), the system for which they've reused in a few different settings.  You can get a Star Trek ship combat game that uses it now.

 

But anyway, let's just say that was already a largely dead property, where Star Wars takes its lumps but keeps going along strong, and if Babylon 5 is no Star Wars, Mongoose Publishing is definitely no Fantasy Flight Games.  You think FFG's ability to release in a timely fashion is bad?   OOF.  You've clearly never waited for a promised Mongoose release.

corsair117 likes this

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FYI/FWIW...

On BBG they have a poll going asking who is going to buy Wave 4 stuff. There's more options there then there needs to be IMO. But the short of it is this.

Will buy Wave 4 stuff - 78.8%

Will not buy Wave 4 stuff - 21.2%

Of that 21.2% 9.6% say no because they feel they have enough ships. Only 7.4% won't get them because they're EU/Not in the movies.

This is based on 311 answers, which is a pretty good amount. So pretty clearly based on that most people will be getting 1 or more Wave 4 ships, and very few, single digit % won't because it's EU stuff.

Edited by VanorDM

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FYI/FWIW...

On BBG they have a poll going asking who is going to buy Wave 4 stuff. There's more options there then there needs to be IMO. But the short of it is this.

Will buy Wave 4 stuff - 78.8%

Will not buy Wave 4 stuff - 21.2%

Of that 21.2% 9.6% say no because they feel they have enough ships. Only 7.4% won't get them because they're EU/Not in the movies.

This is based on 311 answers, which is a pretty good amount. So pretty clearly based on that most people will be getting 1 or more Wave 4 ships, and very few, single digit % won't because it's EU stuff.

And when that 21.2% starts seeing the rest of us flying our ships or using our new upgrades, the number will drop significantly I think.

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I'd think that Wave 4 would be appealing simply for the reason that it opens up options for both factions now. The Empire no longer needs to stick to flying crunchy fighters or deploying a horde of fighters to simply stay competitive. Now they have a heavy fighter, maybe good enough to need only 2 to defeat most rebel lists.

 

Because after a while the TIE swarm gets boring. But it's flown because it's one of the surefire lists for success in the Empire. It's good to have a shielded awesome fighter to make up for how disappointing the TIE x1 is.

 

And for the Rebellion now we have a filler and cheap missile carrier. It cuts the flout from the A-Wing to do what most people would probably use an A-Wing for otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the swarm looses to TIE swarms, but the Rebels get a decent filler craft and more warm bodies to clog up a TIE Swarm while valuable ships get shots in.

 

I haven't given much thought to the E-Wing but what's not to like with what it's got? The Firepower of an X-wing with the agility of an A-Wing, barrel rolling, and a system slot. Something else for an awesome two-ship heavy fighter list.

 

And lastly the TIE Phantom. 4 attack is incredible enough but what does cloaking do? If nothing else, it might shake up the complacency of the rebels by offering something new. Who knows?

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Heh.  *cough*  I think Star Wars is a slightly different beast than Babylon 5 or Firefly.

Babylon 5 did actually have quite a good miniatures game, in a bigger scale (capital ships were the norm, fighter squads came 2-5 little ships on a single base), the system for which they've reused in a few different settings.  You can get a Star Trek ship combat game that uses it now.

 

But anyway, let's just say that was already a largely dead property, where Star Wars takes its lumps but keeps going along strong, and if Babylon 5 is no Star Wars, Mongoose Publishing is definitely no Fantasy Flight Games.  You think FFG's ability to release in a timely fashion is bad?   OOF.  You've clearly never waited for a promised Mongoose release.

I was more referring too the original B5 miniatures game Babylon 5 Wars not A call to arms, was a much better game system that should not have died like it did.

But perhaps Trek is a better example, look at what a mess paramount made of it.

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I'd think that Wave 4 would be appealing simply for the reason that it opens up options for both factions now. The Empire no longer needs to stick to flying crunchy fighters or deploying a horde of fighters to simply stay competitive. Now they have a heavy fighter, maybe good enough to need only 2 to defeat most rebel lists.

 

Because after a while the TIE swarm gets boring. But it's flown because it's one of the surefire lists for success in the Empire. It's good to have a shielded awesome fighter to make up for how disappointing the TIE x1 is.

 

And for the Rebellion now we have a filler and cheap missile carrier. It cuts the flout from the A-Wing to do what most people would probably use an A-Wing for otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if the swarm looses to TIE swarms, but the Rebels get a decent filler craft and more warm bodies to clog up a TIE Swarm while valuable ships get shots in.

 

I haven't given much thought to the E-Wing but what's not to like with what it's got? The Firepower of an X-wing with the agility of an A-Wing, barrel rolling, and a system slot. Something else for an awesome two-ship heavy fighter list.

 

And lastly the TIE Phantom. 4 attack is incredible enough but what does cloaking do? If nothing else, it might shake up the complacency of the rebels by offering something new. Who knows?

I think more than anything, Imperial players are getting a bit of sticker shock, being confronted with the cost of a high end superiority fighter.  Welcome to our world, guys.   ;)

 

I think he's spot on, though, in that what this wave will do is shake up the meta a bit.  The Imperials get a couple of pricey, nasty little fighters.  The Rebels get the E-Wing, but more interesting for the meta, I think, is the Z95.  

Now I'm sure we'll see some Rebel swarms fielded, just because Rebel players can now.  And I think it'll get a lot of play in the same way an Academy Pilot does - forgoing a few upgrades among your squad to make room for an extra body.

 

Defenders and Phantoms, when they get used, will reduce the size of an Imperial squad by a body or two.  Headhunters will often bump the size of a Rebel squad by at least a body.  I think we'll see a lot of squads on both sides fielding 4-6 ships against one another.

 

And while TIE Swarms are likely never going away, and I wouldn't want to face them in a straight up 8v8 match or something with Headhunters.  But you can field at least 5 of them with assault missiles with points to spare (possibly for something like the Munitions card, depending on what it does), and if that doesn't terrify swarm players a bit, it should.

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And when that 21.2% starts seeing the rest of us flying our ships or using our new upgrades, the number will drop significantly I think.

Perhaps... X-Wing so far seems to be settling into a game where you don't need to buy everything that's released just to keep up and have a chance even in friendly games at the LGS. So I think a number of people but still a fairly small %, ~10% I'd guess won't buy much at all from Wave 4, because they have everything they want.

I've seen a few people claim that EU ships would sell so badly that it could be the end of the game. But clearly based on the numbers from that poll, the vast majority of us don't care if the ships were OT or EU or not. We either like the EU stuff, or else don't care one way or the other.

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I wish the whole EU debate would just die.  The term is beyond meaningless at this point - there has been "EU" content in the game since wave 1. 

 

And I don't get why people are so concerned about who is or isn't buying Wave 4.  It'll do very well.  Of course they can't win, because if it sells out everyone will complain that you can't find the ships (see: waves 2-3), and if they crank out enough to meet demand, people will speculate that the fact you can find them on shelves must mean that they're not selling.

 

X-Wing has never been a game where you needed to buy everything released to have a chance at winning.  Ever.  Most of us buy a bunch of all the ships because we've got that collector gene, and we like the minis, and we like to be able to field any kind of crazy squad that comes to mind.  That's fine.

 

But you can buy the starters set and a couple of X-Wings, or an X-Wing and a Falcon, and field a perfectly competitive list.  3-4 X-Wing lists are still viable.  Falcon + wingmen lists are still very popular, even if Chewbacca + Blues is the flavor of the moment over Han + Rookies.  

 

The new ships will definitely reshape the meta, but not in a way that's going to require you to have 5 of every ship in the game to keep up.  In fact I think it's going to make it MORE friendly to some of those old meat and potatoes lists; as I mentioned above, swarms will have some new things to fear, and Imperials will have more expensive ships to work in their lists, and that should bring the size of a lot of squads down a bit.  Rebels will be able to squeak a Headhunter into a lot of lists that normally would have had one ship less, by trimming the upgrades.  It should bring some balance.

 

All of that will be good for players who want to get into the game without a huge investment, even if they never buy a single wave 4 ship.

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To be fair, that poll was amongst the hardcore who go on forums. Not a respresentstive sample.

That's not true. There's a lot of people who post on BBG who have made it quite clear they hate the EU and frankly hope EU ships sell poorly to punish FFG for daring to release something not from the Holy Trilogy.

I'm not exaggerating in that at the least. I'm only paraphrasing what people have actually said.

A sample size that large is going to be a decent representation of the X-Wing player base as a whole. Perhaps the poll results aren't completely accurate, but it clearly shows that most people playing this game don't have a problem with ships from the EU.

It's also been shown in MMO's that the forms do in fact make for a decent representation of the playerbase as a whole.

The sales of the HWK back this up as well, because they sold out at one point like most other ships did.

Edited by VanorDM

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I wish the whole EU debate would just die.  The term is beyond meaningless at this point - there has been "EU" content in the game since wave 1. 

 

And I don't get why people are so concerned about who is or isn't buying Wave 4.  

 

An outside perspective from someone who hasn't even got the game but who agrees with CrookedWookie here:

 

Is it Star Wars? Yes.

 

Quit complaining. If you don't like it then don't buy it but don't you dare tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't be buying.

 

I might be buying E-Wings from Wave 4, even though I haven't bought anything else. Not even the rules! Do I care what others think? No. Mind your own business.

Norsehound, aadh, stegocent and 1 other like this

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It just seems like a silly thing to get mad about.  You don't like them (not YOU, people in general), don't buy them.  If enough people don't buy them, maybe FFG will think twice.  Doubt that'll happen, but who knows?

On the other hand, for those of us who love the game, more ships is hardly a bad thing.  The game will stagnate fast if nothing ever comes in and shakes things up a bit.  I think the Imperial Aces pack, the extra X-Wing pilots and droids in the Transport pack, show that FFG is going to continue to show love and support for the older ships and keep trying to make them relevant and competitive moving forward.  

 

The fastest way to ensure the game stagnated and died, though, would be to quit putting out new ships for it.  People screamed bloody murder about what a rip-off the Imperial Aces pack is, because it was 'just a couple of re-paints of ships I already have...'  Can you imagine if they started putting out nothing BUT?   :P

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I wish the whole EU debate would just die.  The term is beyond meaningless at this point - there has been "EU" content in the game since wave 1. 

 

And I don't get why people are so concerned about who is or isn't buying Wave 4.  

 

An outside perspective from someone who hasn't even got the game but who agrees with CrookedWookie here:

 

Is it Star Wars? Yes.

 

Quit complaining. If you don't like it then don't buy it but don't you dare tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't be buying.

 

I might be buying E-Wings from Wave 4, even though I haven't bought anything else. Not even the rules! Do I care what others think? No. Mind your own business.

 

E-Wings FTW!  

*fist bump*

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So case in point.  Nobody has a problem with good old Mauler, right?  He's a staple of a lot of Imperial lists.  Star Wars OG, Darth Vader's wingman...who could object to a face like this handsome fellow?
mauler-mithel_zps2a457645.png

 

Except, when did they call him Mauler?  Or Black 2?  Or DS-61-2?  Let alone Mithel?  Is that his first name, or his last?  Pretty sure all Vader said to him was basically "You two - come with me."

 

Funny story, turns out Decipher made a popular Star Wars CCG back in the day, and they decided to name everything.  So they came out with a card called Black 2.
Black2_zps1e44c834.jpg

Little hard to make out, but what it says is "TIE/In assigned to pilot DS-61-2.  Has 27 'flames' on cockpit, one for each Rebel kill.  Control yoke has a holo of Mithel's young son, Rejlii."  They squeezed a lot of random backstory onto those cards.

 

At some point, they also came out with one called DS-61-2 - not sure which came first.

Mauler_zpsfdd88e02.jpg

"Pilot DS-61-2.  Vader's left wingman.  Flies Black 2.  Specially trained pilot, held in reserve for missions with Vader.  Nicknamed Mauler Mithel."

 

And there you have it.  His name, Mithel, his nickname, Mauler, his serial number, DS-61-2, his callsign, Black 2, even his freaking son's name.  All off a couple of old cards from an old CCG that got permission to go back and retcon names onto everything.

 

If you don't already know this, you have no idea just how deep the rabbit hole goes.  EVERY named basic TIE pilot.  A good chunk of the Rebel pilots - Garven Dreis was just Red Leader.  Porkins may be the only one besides Luke, Wedge and Biggs whose name was used onscreen.  Tycho.  

 

And if it's not from the old CCG, it's from video games (HWK, Kyle and Jan, Maarek Steele), or books, or whatever.  This game has been filled with information never seen onscreen, gleaned from a variety of (gasp) Extended Universe sources.  The seeds were planted since day 1, they're just getting to the point now where more of the ships themselves - not just the names of pilots who fly them - are being used.  But where do you draw that line?  Why is it ok to call her Howlrunner, but not ok to have the E-Wing, which was featured in a ton of comics and novels?

 

EU is here, guys.  It's always been here.  You know they'll continue to delve into named pilots as they go - still a ton of Rogues, even Red squadron guys from Yavin, left to tap for duty, let alone all the guys in the briefing room in Jedi - but they're out of ships.  So EU, whatever that term even means anymore, isn't going away.  Gonna have to put on our big boy pants and deal.   ;)

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Yes finally you got your E-Wings. Are you happy now?

SO happy.   :D

You still holding out for the return of Maarek Steele?  Made sure to throw him into my rant in your honor.   ;)

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Well maybe Maarek and his ship will get some love down the road, if nothing else.  They seem to be getting into the mode of beefing up older ships as they go.  

 

I think the Phantom will be pretty cool, yeah.  Any time you add an entirely new mechanic to the game it's pretty interesting.  The high risk/high reward/glass cannon deal will make them incredibly dangerous (both to fly and fly against).   :D

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On the other hand, for those of us who love the game, more ships is hardly a bad thing.

I think the X-Wing community is made up of 2 ends of a spectrum. Gamers on one end, and Star Wars fans on the other. Naturally most of us are somewhere in the middle.

But for the ones on the far end of the Star Wars fan side, they are going to base their decisions on if the ship matches up with what they think Star Wars is. For that apparently small (from the poll, and small based on my own experiences), group who are Original Trilogy Only, who also play this game, they're not likely to buy anything from wave 4. Because to them those ships don't fit into their idea of Star Wars.

For the rest of us, we'll buy those ships because either we are fans of the EU anyway, and/or because of what the ships offer in terms of game play.

Myself I like the look of the E-Wing, so I'm excited to see it. I kinda like the Z-95 and think it looks good as the predecessor to the X-Wing, but I'm excited about it because of what it offers in terms of game play more then because I think it's a cool looking ship.

Going back to the spectrum. I think there's very few Movie only fans who play this game, if you had zero interest in it as a game, you likely wouldn't pick it up. There are some who did, but then many of them who have said as much say that they've come to love the game too. So most of those people are going to at least consider Wave 4, solely because of what the ships offer in terms of game play, even if they aren't ships they already knew of.

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To be fair, that poll was amongst the hardcore who go on forums. Not a respresentstive sample.

That's not true. There's a lot of people who post on BBG who have made it quite clear they hate the EU and frankly hope EU ships sell poorly to punish FFG for daring to release something not from the Holy Trilogy.I'm not exaggerating in that at the least. I'm only paraphrasing what people have actually said.A sample size that large is going to be a decent representation of the X-Wing player base as a whole. Perhaps the poll results aren't completely accurate, but it clearly shows that most people playing this game don't have a problem with ships from the EU.It's also been shown in MMO's that the forms do in fact make for a decent representation of the playerbase as a whole.The sales of the HWK back this up as well, because they sold out at one point like most other ships did.

I meant that the people who go on a certain forum aren't representative of the whole player base. I imagine people on the forums are on average more hardcore than the broader average player and therefore more likely to be into the EU. Star Wars EU, that is, not the European Union. Maybe not much more, mind you, could well be this game appeals predominantly to a fairly hardcore bunch of Star Wars fans! Cough-ahem.

Anyway, since I haven't said it for a while: I want prequel ships!

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On the other hand, for those of us who love the game, more ships is hardly a bad thing.

I think the X-Wing community is made up of 2 ends of a spectrum. Gamers on one end, and Star Wars fans on the other. Naturally most of us are somewhere in the middle.

But for the ones on the far end of the Star Wars fan side, they are going to base their decisions on if the ship matches up with what they think Star Wars is. For that apparently small (from the poll, and small based on my own experiences), group who are Original Trilogy Only, who also play this game, they're not likely to buy anything from wave 4. Because to them those ships don't fit into their idea of Star Wars.

For the rest of us, we'll buy those ships because either we are fans of the EU anyway, and/or because of what the ships offer in terms of game play.

Myself I like the look of the E-Wing, so I'm excited to see it. I kinda like the Z-95 and think it looks good as the predecessor to the X-Wing, but I'm excited about it because of what it offers in terms of game play more then because I think it's a cool looking ship.

Going back to the spectrum. I think there's very few Movie only fans who play this game, if you had zero interest in it as a game, you likely wouldn't pick it up. There are some who did, but then many of them who have said as much say that they've come to love the game too. So most of those people are going to at least consider Wave 4, solely because of what the ships offer in terms of game play, even if they aren't ships they already knew of.

 

That's part of it for me, too.  I've always liked the E-Wing since it showed up in Dark Empire (what, no A-9 Interceptors for us?   ;) ) so I was psyched to see them get added to the game.  I think they are going to fill a neat niche.  But I really like this wave for what it does to the meta.  The Empire gets a couple of high end ships with price tags more in line with Rebel fighters, the Rebels get a cool Heavy Interceptor type superiority fighter, and a cheap swarmy ship which they could really use to help fill out their ranks, more than straight up swarm it.

 

It'll be interesting to see where squads land, somewhere in the middle.   :)

 

PS - for anyone not familiar with that particular abomination... :lol:

A-9_NEGVV_zps766b0211.jpg

Edited by CrookedWookie

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