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jedi moose

Thoughts on Point increase

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I saw some posts indicating that some are speculating a possible point increase for standard tournament style games. Do you think this would be a good thing? How much should the increase be? Should there be other changes to the tournament format?

 My thoughts:

One of the issues with a point increase is that it would increase the amount of time it takes to complete a game. Games that end when time runs out are ok, but there is nothing like the feeling of actually destroying all of the other teams ships. Increasing the points means that we also need to increase the time limit (making tournaments take much longer or fit less people), or it results in every match ending when the time runs out.

 

But with these Wave 4 ships, its obvious that 100 point builds don't allow us to use many of these ships as much as we would like too.

 

So, IMO  

 

EITHER

 

any point increase  needs to be relatively minor, say 120 points. It would only allow a tie swarm to increase by 2 ships so overall time of game wouldn't be that much longer. Or it allows us some more options on what "expensive" ships or upgrades we can take. 

 

OR

 

point increase is to 150 points, but there is a restriction on the number of a single ship you could use or your build is required to have at least X number of different ships. SO maybe you are only allowed to have 8 max of any single ship, or you must use at least 3 different ships in your build.

 

I'm sure many won't like these ideas, which is fine. But if something is going to change in the standard points for a match, how do you think it should be done?

Edited by jedi moose

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Let's be honest, a 100 points doesn't allow much freedom when it comes to the YT-1300 or Firespray already.  Oh, sure you can get squads that field three of them and they are large sized but it looks to me like you can field three of these new ships and we don't discriminate on size do we?  There is no NEED to increase the standard format over 100 points just to satisfy those who can't live within a point budget.

 

If you do boost points then you should just go to 150 if you want the chance to really see something different.  If you're worried about facing 12 ship swarms then maybe there needs to be a hard cap on the number of ships that can be in a squad.  Such a cap should be universal and not care what kind of ships are being looked at; this means no to "you can only have a maximum of X ship of this type" or "you must play with Y different types of ship."  Right now I don't know how you could field 150 points without fielding at least 3 different ships.

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Right now I don't know how you could field 150 points without fielding at least 3 different ships.

I flew a 150pt squad once using only two types of ship - 6 Tie Fighters and 4 Interceptors if I recall correctly. It kicked arse, even though I kept colliding. Would have been devastating in the hands of a good player, I think.

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From what I've seen on this and other boards in discussions about the game and the number of points, i think the tournament format should remain at the 100 point limit.  this forces players to think carefully about their options and what ships to bring.  It also keeps the cost down to a reasonable level.  let's not increase it to 500 points where it take 4 hours and hundreds of dollars to play a game; like another game I know cough(gw). pardon.  

My reason is simple. the number of people playing the game is growing, the tournament circuit is growing.  More ships are getting produced to create more variety.  all things point to moving ahead slow and steady.  to try and change rules just to balloon sales is going to kill long term business and the game as a whole.  FFG has a great chance to ride this game for a long time.  Let's support it and keep it to where it is a solid game for all. 

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Right now I don't know how you could field 150 points without fielding at least 3 different ships.

I flew a 150pt squad once using only two types of ship - 6 Tie Fighters and 4 Interceptors if I recall correctly. It kicked arse, even though I kept colliding. Would have been devastating in the hands of a good player, I think.

 

 

Technically, that is ten different ships.  Even if all 6 Fighters were set up one way and the 4 Interceptors were also interchangeable that is still ten different ships.

 

Even at 150 points you could see "swarms" with identical ships.  Why not face down five or six Royal Guard Interceptors?

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I've tried the escalation format and it was interesting.  Fun to play with different sized squads.  Nearly impossible to practice and be prepared for any particular build as it is so uncommon a format the field is just wide open.  I went with a Bomber/Interceptor mix.  At 150 I brought in Vader, but in hindsight that could have been much better spent on more Bombers or Interceptors.

 

Right now I'm trying out a format where you in addition to your regular 100pt squad, you also have a preset 50 pt reserve that can be brought in as your ships are destroyed to bring your forces back up to 100.  It is still only played for the predetermined amount of time (usually 75 minutes).  Keeps a small number of ships on the board and the game flowing smoothly while allowing newer players leeway to recover from mistakes.  Just working out what is the best solution for reinforcement deployment.

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100pts is fine. Point increase in ships just means you make tougher calls, more creative builds, and greater variety. It should remain the same and you can live with only fielding 1 loaded defender, one loaded phantom... Oh, and still field 1-2 academies... Just like now.

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I don't know where people think that. I don't see the Standard 100 pt format going anywhere.  Where the point increase is coming from, is the new Epic format, which is a tournament format. And FFG does like supporting more than one style of tournament, see AGOT.

 

Yeah, this. Plus, can you imagine running tournaments with 200 point squads? It would take 2 days.

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I don't know where people think that. I don't see the Standard 100 pt format going anywhere.  Where the point increase is coming from, is the new Epic format, which is a tournament format. And FFG does like supporting more than one style of tournament, see AGOT.

 

Yeah, this. Plus, can you imagine running tournaments with 200 point squads? It would take 2 days.

 

But it would be GLORIOUS

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I already play games with 110 or 120 points on an infrequent basis. They're not much slower, and allow for a lot of different builds with more named pilots, upgrades and of course, more ships. I don't really see the problem with allowing for more freedom in this game, at all, provided you stick to the rules.

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If you bump to 150 you would almost certainly have to increase to 90 minute rounds and that's not practical if you have a decent turnout. As it stands now it's not un-common for an FLGS to stay open later than what their weekend hours typically are to finish your tournament.

On the other hand if you go to 150 but keep the time the same your scoring gets all wonky because so few people are going to finish in time.

I don't think the 100 for tourney play goes anywhere. Like others said you will simply see some added formats.

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If you bump to 150 you would almost certainly have to increase to 90 minute rounds and that's not practical if you have a decent turnout. As it stands now it's not un-common for an FLGS to stay open later than what their weekend hours typically are to finish your tournament.

On the other hand if you go to 150 but keep the time the same your scoring gets all wonky because so few people are going to finish in time.

I don't think the 100 for tourney play goes anywhere. Like others said you will simply see some added formats.

I agree. That's why if there is a point increase, there has to be some sort of requirement to force some quality ships into all builds rather than just more quantity which makes games take longer. I will say that i don't play in tournaments, but i do play most of my games in tournament format. I don't care what the point total is set at. It appears though that the community is against it. 

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I also think the 100pt format is fine for the standard tournaments.  Yes, most of the wave 4 ships are expensive, but it looks like you can field 3+ of each if you want to specialize (nice way of saying spam :P).  I think some people love to experiment, whereas others like to stick to roughly the same squad.  The latter of which would be more negatively impacted than gains for the former.  

 

I would also prefer getting two games in at 100pts vs. one game at 200pts in ~2 hrs (give or take).  Lets you change it up, and also helps ease the pain of those REALLY unlucky games (ie where 0 evades come up on green dice).

 

Plus, I'm really eager to see if 200pts is going to be the standard for epic play.  It will help fulfill that desire to have larger battles.

 

The best way I can think of to change the standard tournament format points total would be for some sort of 2nd Ed rule set for the game, but I don't know if that will happen in the foreseeable future.

 

In short, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Edited by Texx

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my thought on points for tournaments would be to use different numbers along the way.

e.g., start the first rounds with 50 points and while progressing end with a final game of 150/200 points.

if you find the right mix you wouldn't increase (too much) the overall tournament duration and might even be able to increase the number of initial participants.

 

it isn't unheard of for tournaments in other games to use similar approaches, looking at snooker for example.

 

also, it would add the challenge to bring/use different lists to the table.

Edited by Asgo

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I really like the 150 pt format actually, which I will now explain. Assuming you aren't allowed large ships in 150 pts.

 

1-More points means you can add more stuff to your list, so a greater variety of builds becomes available. This game's meta is becoming incredibly stale, and while wave 4 looks cool, we all know it won't be here til at the earliest September.

 

2-The time isn't that big of an issue. I used to have no trouble with a 3 round 4k tournament, where games would go 2-2.5 hours. You can run a 4 round with 90 minute time limit, in just over 7 hours if you are well organized. That's not a bad deal.

 

3-Having played it a few times, me and my group have basically switched over entirely to 150. There was this movement in 40k years ago, where the tournament standard was 1500, to bring it up. Eventually the standard became closer and closer to 2k, and overall the game was better for it. While 500 pts there may cost you $100+ dollars, x-wing is dirt cheap and most people have more ships than they know what to do with already.

Edited by Breaking The Law

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