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Hrathen

Z-95s vs TIEs

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With the introduction of the Z-95 at a price as low as 95 points it seems obvious to compare it to the TIE Fighter.

What does the Z-95 have that the TIE Fighter does not:

2 points of shields, but with one less hull it is only a net hit increase of 1 point. It will be slightly more resistant to crits.

Target Lock, but as we have found Focus is almost as good an offensive action (if you ignore crits it gives has the same expected number of hits) Of course there are some advantage to the TL, most notably the ability to keep it and stack it with a focus. TL also allows you to shoot missiles.

Missiles, if anything this is the Z-95 greatest advantage over a TIE. It does increase the price of the ship considerably, but it could lead to one heck of an alpha strike.

What does the TIE Fighter have that the Z-95 does not.

An extra agility dice, I think this more than makes up for any extra hits the Z-95 can take.

An Evade Action, I think this will be more useful on the named (more expensive) pilots, who you want to keep alive (and discourage shots at). It also further increases the TIEs edge in defense.

Howelrunner, this may not be obvious, but Howelrunner is a staple of any TIE Swarm list. Her ability to bump everyone who is close enough makes swarms all better. Granted we have no idea what ability the named pilots of the Z-95 will have, but there won't be as many for sure.

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Another thing that the TIEs have is that there is a great depth of different pilots to choose from (9 total) where as any other ship excluding the X-wing (6 now, 10 when the Rebel Transport comes out) only has 4 pilots to choose from. But we don't know what pilots and their abilities the z-95 is going to have.

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I think the Headhunter is going to lose to the Tie in terms of swarm lists, It's dial will be on par at best most likely and the one hit point boost does not make up for the lose of a agility die. However I think it will be far superior to the tie in the "filler" and "screening" roles. A tie fighter, when thrown into a list just to spend points is fairly mediocre. It doesn't do much damage, can't really keep formation with any other imperial ships without sacrificing it's biggest strength, it's dial. The headhunter will probably be able to keep pace with fellow rebels more easily(Edit: Or rather, not keep pace, but not have to slow down as much and hobble itself). Its sustainability beats the Headhunter due to its agility but it lacks the reliability to use as a great time waster to screen enemies with, Z-95 reverses that. The Headhunter can also carry missiles which can be great in the right list.

 

In short: Ties are a main event, Z-95s are backup for the main force.

Edited by Vonpenguin

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

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... but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

Barrel roll is indeed an advantage for the TIE. Regarding the 1 turn the Z-95 may have one: "Though the Z-95 was later outclassed by the X-wing in most respects, it could perform a tighter turn ..."

Edited by dvor

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

 

 

Yeah. The Tie fighter will clearly be better in spam lists. The Z is probably a more effective supplementary ship though.

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

 

 

Yeah. The Tie fighter will clearly be better in spam lists. The Z is probably a more effective supplementary ship though.

 

or for a couple of cheap blockers

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

 

 

Yeah. The Tie fighter will clearly be better in spam lists. The Z is probably a more effective supplementary ship though.

 

or for a couple of cheap blockers

 

PS2 may be too high for a blocker.

 

Edit:

The Z-95 has no movement action. (barrel roll, boost) Which would help with blocking.

Academy pilots are better at blocking than the Z-95.

Edited by dvor

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

 

 

Yeah. The Tie fighter will clearly be better in spam lists. The Z is probably a more effective supplementary ship though.

 

Yeah, I see them basically replacing the A-wing as a "cheapest pilot that can have missiles" ship, which would let those types of lists splurge a little more on ordinance/upgrades for the more durable ships.

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A swam of Z-95's with Assault Missiles could 1-shot an entire swarm of TIE's though.

highly unlikely.. those missiles cost, and that brings your 95 swarm down in numbers.. against an all Academy swarm, it won't happen, but if there are some higher PS pilots in the swarm there is a possibility..

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Wouldn't your opponent split up if faced with 5 Assault Missiles? That would partially negate the Howlrunner and Assault Missile advantages, bringing us back to vanilla TIE Fighter vs Z-95.

I haven't done the math, but I suspect the 3 Agility of the TIE will win out again the 4 hits of the Z-95.

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I suspect that the most likely times we are going to see the 2PS Z-95 is in a pair to replace a red squadron pilot or as a cheap escort/ability sponge for named HWKs and other support based pilots.

Edited by Vonpenguin

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I suspect that the most likely times we are going to see the 2PS Z-95 is in a pair to replace a red squadron pilot or as a cheap escort/ability sponge for named HWKs and other support based pilots.

Also, we need to see what this Wingman effect will be.. maybe a concentrated fire advantage, gain an aditional die of damage for each ship firing with you, or something like that..

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Well that's an elite pilot talent, so it isn't really a magor factor in how the ship will play unless it has some sort of tie in such as how daredevil is pretty bad on anything that isn't an A-wing or Interceptor at the moment.

 

Though I would love if it let you and an allied ship roll both your dice pools as one attack.

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Well that's an elite pilot talent, so it isn't really a magor factor in how the ship will play unless it has some sort of tie in such as how daredevil is pretty bad on anything that isn't an A-wing or Interceptor at the moment.

 

Though I would love if it let you and an allied ship roll both your dice pools as one attack.

That's an interesting idea as well, and that would make it worth using.. combined fire can be a great thing and that would make it even better... that on a couple Saber squad guys would be Awesome... haha..

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I would like to point out that depending on the missiles you take, They may not net you too many more points of damage. If the TIE is evading (which they should be) they might still shrug off most damage. Let's say you have missiles, lock and focus. Most missiles are 4 attack dice. At a 75% chance to hit with any individual die, we can safely say that is about 3 hits from a missile attack.

 

Now if the TIE has an evade token, there's one. Hopefully you can at least get 1 evade out of 3 dice. That's 2. So one might get through.

 

Now we all know the numbers don't usually stack this cleanly, but for the sake of argument I'm going to say that an All-Headhunter Swarm would actually be at a disadvantage over a TIE swarm if the Alpha doesn't close out well. The TIEs are significantly more maneuverable, and they're just build better for this sort of combat. Both ships have 2 attack dice, but i'd argue it's slightly easier to get into/stay in range 1 with a standard TIE thanks to 1-Turns and barrel rolls. Not to mention at least two named pilots with range 1 abilities that are fairly effective.

The Problem with the whole swarm taking the evade token as their action is you opponent simply focus fires on a couple of ships. If an even number of Z-95's went up against TIEs, the Z-95's would be able to TL and fire their missiles. Since even with a missile you aren't likely to one-shot a tie, you have 2 Z-95s shoot at each TIE. Before the TIEs even shoot the Z-95s have killed half of them. Of course a Z-95 with a missile costs more than a TIE.

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I'm surprised that nobody here has even mentioned the possibilities of different missiles other than those included with the Z-95 as options. How about Homing Missiles?

Assault Missiles are far better against a swarm, and still very good against the rest of the fleets.

Homing Missiles are better against hard to hit targets, but dismal against a Swarm.

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Wouldn't your opponent split up if faced with 5 Assault Missiles?

Seems if you accomplish just this much with the threat of the missiles, then the points costs could often still be worth it.

Edited by JFunk

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