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jedi moose

Upgrades/Pilots that we never use...Convince us we are wrong

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Sensor Jammer combines well with a B-Wing or Space bus with a HLC. Do you use the focus for the extra damage on the B when SJ kicks in knowing now you face 4 shots back with no def modifier.

 

Or if the B shoots first, do you use focus to defend, knowing that you are going to be a hit down when you fire?

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Has anyone tried Intelligence agent alongside some dirt cheap Interceptors. Find where target is going then use boost on your low cost Interceptors to line up the shot against it.

 

I am also very interested in this. This seems to be the only way to justify the high cost of PS1 Alpha's at 18 points. Without the higher PS to be able to boost / barrel roll out of arcs, they're just higher priced targets, whose higher attack isn't quite justified by 18 points.

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I haven't gotten a a wing yet but I'm surprised I never see anyone use dead eye.

Never hear much that about that

I thought to be able to exchange a focus instead of a target lock could be pretty deadly

Edited by Krynn007

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I haven't gotten a a wing yet but I'm surprised I never see anyone use dead eye.

Never hear much that about that

I thought to be able to exchange a focus instead of a target lock could be pretty deadly

 

Yes but only if a card instucts you to use a target lock, which if your using a card you need to discard (Missiles, Torpedoes) which most people try to have target lock and focus, when doing that.

Edited by Imperial Rebel

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I haven't gotten a a wing yet but I'm surprised I never see anyone use dead eye.

Never hear much that about that

I thought to be able to exchange a focus instead of a target lock could be pretty deadly

 

Yes but only if a card instucts you to use a target lock, which if your using a card you need to discard (Missiles, Torpedoes) which most people try to have target lock and focus, when doing that.

 

 

It can be used OK with something like the Firespray that can carry missles and have a Recon Specialist... APT + Recon + Dead Eye can be deadly

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I remember seeing an entire video that was devoted to saying how Expose was an awful waste of 4 points. I'm extremely tempted to agree, since the only craft I'd use it on would be Darth Vader, since he has two actions anyway, or Green Squadron Pilots. The problem is that Vader is already an expensive piece on the board and if I'm going to spend an action to make an A-Wing into an X-Wing for a turn I don't see how that's worth 4 entire points and my action.

 

So my challenge is how do you make Expose worth the cost of investment? Perhaps with Han Solo? Chewbacca? A Moldy Crow?

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I remember seeing an entire video that was devoted to saying how Expose was an awful waste of 4 points. I'm extremely tempted to agree, since the only craft I'd use it on would be Darth Vader, since he has two actions anyway, or Green Squadron Pilots. The problem is that Vader is already an expensive piece on the board and if I'm going to spend an action to make an A-Wing into an X-Wing for a turn I don't see how that's worth 4 entire points and my action.

 

So my challenge is how do you make Expose worth the cost of investment? Perhaps with Han Solo? Chewbacca? A Moldy Crow?

I remember seeing a post about someone using it on Chewie, he wanted to name the squad after one of Kashyyyk's moons since Chewie was exposing himself all over the place. That would mean he had no defense dice, but pack quite a punch.  Maybe he had someone feeding him extra actions ( Lando maybe?) so he could take an evade.

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Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

Agreed. Had to use Fel's Wrath once in a randomly generated list. It did not go well.

 

Next time you go up against a Falcon, or a ship with a turret, give Fel's Wrath another go.  This is a high SP pilot's worst nightmare.  Fel's job is to take down a 50 point+ ship for 23 points.  

Again, if you keep running into things with Arvel, instead of things running into you, this is operator's error, not a bad pilot.  The A-wing in general is an advanced ship and one has to be VERY good at guessing the moves of others to play it well.

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Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

Agreed. Had to use Fel's Wrath once in a randomly generated list. It did not go well.

 

Next time you go up against a Falcon, or a ship with a turret, give Fel's Wrath another go.  This is a high SP pilot's worst nightmare.  Fel's job is to take down a 50 point+ ship for 23 points.  

Again, if you keep running into things with Arvel, instead of things running into you, this is operator's error, not a bad pilot.  The A-wing in general is an advanced ship and one has to be VERY good at guessing the moves of others to play it well.

 

I don't think you understand what Fels Wrath does because that matchup goes something like this:

 

Fels Wrath Flies straight at Han. Han shoots first and destroys Fels Wrath. FW shoots and lands a couple hits on Han and then FW is destroyed and leaves the board. Round ends.  Han searches for his next target with most of his shields in tact.

 

FW's ability is a one time use thing when he is already dead. I fail to see how it is the bane of Han Solo

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So  I was thinking that some of us may never use certain upgrades or pilots because we just don't see the point or don't think they are worth the points for what they do. So this is a thread to get some help on any pilot/upgrade that we don't see the value of. Maybe someone out there has had great success using it and can share the benefit of their experience. Or maybe the community will confirm that our assessment of a Pilot/upgrade was dead on and no one ever uses it.

 

I'll start with Sensor Jammers. I think 4 pts  for the ability to turn a hit into an eyeball is kind of a bit too much to justify. Its likely that your opponent has a focus, since it seems to be the default action most of us take, or they have a TL, which lets them re-roll that eyeball with a 50/50 chance of getting another hit, or even worse a crit. It seems to be a highly situational upgrade. What am I missing? Have you found it to be worth the points?

It also depends on the individual pilot skills in play. When it comes to modifying dice, if both attacker and defender are modifying the same roll (as opposed to just their own) the higher pilot skill modifies first. So for instance, if Ten Numb is being firing upon by Captain Jonus, then the B-Wing would alter the die to a focus. Jonus could then modify it back with his token or Marksmanship. If someone like Soontir Fel fired on Ten Numb, then Fel would have to try to modify his dice just to break even (thus still using his token if he has one, but to less effect. and Fel just depleted his tokens, making him a sweeter target for the rebel player in the rest of the combat this round). So yes. Extremely useful.

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Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

Agreed. Had to use Fel's Wrath once in a randomly generated list. It did not go well.

 

Next time you go up against a Falcon, or a ship with a turret, give Fel's Wrath another go.  This is a high SP pilot's worst nightmare.  Fel's job is to take down a 50 point+ ship for 23 points.  

Again, if you keep running into things with Arvel, instead of things running into you, this is operator's error, not a bad pilot.  The A-wing in general is an advanced ship and one has to be VERY good at guessing the moves of others to play it well.

 

I don't think you understand what Fels Wrath does because that matchup goes something like this:

 

Fels Wrath Flies straight at Han. Han shoots first and destroys Fels Wrath. FW shoots and lands a couple hits on Han and then FW is destroyed and leaves the board. Round ends.  Han searches for his next target with most of his shields in tact.

 

FW's ability is a one time use thing when he is already dead. I fail to see how it is the bane of Han Solo

 

Again... this is not how to use Fels...

You play him like any other Tie-I.  Use his agility to keep him safe, but when the time comes and the opportunity presents itself to take down a big ship, you strike!  And you strike KNOWING you'll get your hits in, regardless of how many hits are landed on Fels.

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So  I was thinking that some of us may never use certain upgrades or pilots because we just don't see the point or don't think they are worth the points for what they do. So this is a thread to get some help on any pilot/upgrade that we don't see the value of. Maybe someone out there has had great success using it and can share the benefit of their experience. Or maybe the community will confirm that our assessment of a Pilot/upgrade was dead on and no one ever uses it.

 

I'll start with Sensor Jammers. I think 4 pts  for the ability to turn a hit into an eyeball is kind of a bit too much to justify. Its likely that your opponent has a focus, since it seems to be the default action most of us take, or they have a TL, which lets them re-roll that eyeball with a 50/50 chance of getting another hit, or even worse a crit. It seems to be a highly situational upgrade. What am I missing? Have you found it to be worth the points?

It also depends on the individual pilot skills in play. When it comes to modifying dice, if both attacker and defender are modifying the same roll (as opposed to just their own) the higher pilot skill modifies first. So for instance, if Ten Numb is being firing upon by Captain Jonus, then the B-Wing would alter the die to a focus. Jonus could then modify it back with his token or Marksmanship. If someone like Soontir Fel fired on Ten Numb, then Fel would have to try to modify his dice just to break even (thus still using his token if he has one, but to less effect. and Fel just depleted his tokens, making him a sweeter target for the rebel player in the rest of the combat this round). So yes. Extremely useful.

 

 

It has nothing to do with PS.

 

Defender always modifies Attack dice first. Attacker always modifies Defense dice first

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I think Dead Eye works best on low PS guys who still need to use Target Lock to fire ordinance. Most people worth their rations know how to slow-play out of the alpha strike of low-mid range ordinance users like Gamma Squadrons or Rookie Pilots. Dead Eye allows you to move up aggressively, but still use your ordinance in the first round of combat. Without the focus you may not do as much damage (or at least 'your chances aren't as good at high-damage' rounds might be a better wording) but it's better than getting scratched out by some higher PS jerk before you even get the **** things off at all...

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So  I was thinking that some of us may never use certain upgrades or pilots because we just don't see the point or don't think they are worth the points for what they do. So this is a thread to get some help on any pilot/upgrade that we don't see the value of. Maybe someone out there has had great success using it and can share the benefit of their experience. Or maybe the community will confirm that our assessment of a Pilot/upgrade was dead on and no one ever uses it.

 

I'll start with Sensor Jammers. I think 4 pts  for the ability to turn a hit into an eyeball is kind of a bit too much to justify. Its likely that your opponent has a focus, since it seems to be the default action most of us take, or they have a TL, which lets them re-roll that eyeball with a 50/50 chance of getting another hit, or even worse a crit. It seems to be a highly situational upgrade. What am I missing? Have you found it to be worth the points?

It also depends on the individual pilot skills in play. When it comes to modifying dice, if both attacker and defender are modifying the same roll (as opposed to just their own) the higher pilot skill modifies first. So for instance, if Ten Numb is being firing upon by Captain Jonus, then the B-Wing would alter the die to a focus. Jonus could then modify it back with his token or Marksmanship. If someone like Soontir Fel fired on Ten Numb, then Fel would have to try to modify his dice just to break even (thus still using his token if he has one, but to less effect. and Fel just depleted his tokens, making him a sweeter target for the rebel player in the rest of the combat this round). So yes. Extremely useful.

 

 

It has nothing to do with PS.

 

Defender always modifies Attack dice first. Attacker always modifies Defense dice first

 

Really? Hmm.

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Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

Agreed. Had to use Fel's Wrath once in a randomly generated list. It did not go well.

 

Next time you go up against a Falcon, or a ship with a turret, give Fel's Wrath another go.  This is a high SP pilot's worst nightmare.  Fel's job is to take down a 50 point+ ship for 23 points.  

Again, if you keep running into things with Arvel, instead of things running into you, this is operator's error, not a bad pilot.  The A-wing in general is an advanced ship and one has to be VERY good at guessing the moves of others to play it well.

 

I don't think you understand what Fels Wrath does because that matchup goes something like this:

 

Fels Wrath Flies straight at Han. Han shoots first and destroys Fels Wrath. FW shoots and lands a couple hits on Han and then FW is destroyed and leaves the board. Round ends.  Han searches for his next target with most of his shields in tact.

 

FW's ability is a one time use thing when he is already dead. I fail to see how it is the bane of Han Solo

 

Again... this is not how to use Fels...

You play him like any other Tie-I.  Use his agility to keep him safe, but when the time comes and the opportunity presents itself to take down a big ship, you strike!  And you strike KNOWING you'll get your hits in, regardless of how many hits are landed on Fels.

 

Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. There is a very good chance that even at range 3 han can destroy fel in 1 or two rounds, before his health get's low enough for Fel to take him out. So unless you hide fel on the opposite side of the board and wait for the falcon to be on itrs death bed, I don't see it working the way you want all that often.

And what's more, in a tournament (or really in any  game i play, even casual) you don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table and therefore if your strategyy will work on a big ship which they may not use. Sorry, I still don't see the value of Fels Wrath

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Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. 

Well yeah. That's how you fly ANY interceptor. And if the Imperial is focus firing the YT down like they're supposed to, then it won't be so slow. The average TIE swarm (6-8 ships) or Interceptor squad (2-3 ships) can be throwing anywhere from 6-14 attack dice at a 1-evade ship. Even if you roll an evade every single time you're still stopping 1/4 or less of the damage. In fact, in any game I've played where the opponent used a YT and I killed it, it was destroyed on the second or third round it was fired upon.

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Well I'm going to be using Night Beast or Winged Gundark in a 7-tie at a tourney on Sunday, mainly because I've never used either. Wanted to put both in but that would make me 100 pts, which would stink for a swarm and there's no way I can drop Backstabber.

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Really? Hmm.

 

Yep

 

Rulebook P11:  If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify attack dice, the defender resolves all of his abilities before the attacker.

Rulebook P12: If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify defense dice, the attacker resolves all of his abilities before the defender.

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Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. There is a very good chance that even at range 3 han can destroy fel in 1 or two rounds, before his health get's low enough for Fel to take him out. So unless you hide fel on the opposite side of the board and wait for the falcon to be on itrs death bed, I don't see it working the way you want all that often.

 

And what's more, in a tournament (or really in any  game i play, even casual) you don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table and therefore if your strategyy will work on a big ship which they may not use. Sorry, I still don't see the value of Fels Wrath

 

You know, there is OTHER ways to play this game.  100 point tournament rules is only one way.  I play 160 point team games with friends.  Fels fits into this type of game.

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I remember seeing an entire video that was devoted to saying how Expose was an awful waste of 4 points. I'm extremely tempted to agree, since the only craft I'd use it on would be Darth Vader, since he has two actions anyway, or Green Squadron Pilots. The problem is that Vader is already an expensive piece on the board and if I'm going to spend an action to make an A-Wing into an X-Wing for a turn I don't see how that's worth 4 entire points and my action.

 

So my challenge is how do you make Expose worth the cost of investment? Perhaps with Han Solo? Chewbacca? A Moldy Crow?

I remember seeing a post about someone using it on Chewie, he wanted to name the squad after one of Kashyyyk's moons since Chewie was exposing himself all over the place. That would mean he had no defense dice, but pack quite a punch.  Maybe he had someone feeding him extra actions ( Lando maybe?) so he could take an evade.

 

Full MOON Kashyyk.

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Really? Hmm.

 

Yep

 

Rulebook P11:  If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify attack dice, the defender resolves all of his abilities before the attacker.

Rulebook P12: If the attacker and defender both have abilities that can modify defense dice, the attacker resolves all of his abilities before the defender.

 

Awesome, thanks. My above example was told to me by my usual opponent while he held the book. He must have given up looking for the answer and just substituted his own judgement.

 

Gonna have to set his arse straight again. I guess that means I've been right on all rulings debates after all...

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Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. 

Well yeah. That's how you fly ANY interceptor. And if the Imperial is focus firing the YT down like they're supposed to, then it won't be so slow. The average TIE swarm (6-8 ships) or Interceptor squad (2-3 ships) can be throwing anywhere from 6-14 attack dice at a 1-evade ship. Even if you roll an evade every single time you're still stopping 1/4 or less of the damage. In fact, in any game I've played where the opponent used a YT and I killed it, it was destroyed on the second or third round it was fired upon.

 

Yes that is how you try to fly interceptors. But it's not completely up to you as the other player using the falcon or one of his other ships on the board isn't going to just roll over and let you stay at range 3 taking shots at him. The point was that this strategy requires you to keep 1 particular ship (FW) alive long enough to get the final shot on a ship like the Falcon. That is not as easy as it sounds without flying FW extremely conservatively.

 

And I would argue that if the YT is getting taken out that fast, you either aren't flying it right, are incredibly unlucky, and/or you've taken out 2-3 of the enemy ships before you went down, one of them possibly being Fels Wrath before his ability was ready to let you finish of the Falcon in the fashion that Stone37 suggests. 

 

 

Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. There is a very good chance that even at range 3 han can destroy fel in 1 or two rounds, before his health get's low enough for Fel to take him out. So unless you hide fel on the opposite side of the board and wait for the falcon to be on itrs death bed, I don't see it working the way you want all that often.

 

And what's more, in a tournament (or really in any  game i play, even casual) you don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table and therefore if your strategyy will work on a big ship which they may not use. Sorry, I still don't see the value of Fels Wrath

 

You know, there is OTHER ways to play this game.  100 point tournament rules is only one way.  I play 160 point team games with friends.  Fels fits into this type of game.

 

Of course there are. I wasn't trying to offend or imply that their is only one way to play. Personally I don't play in tournaments, only with  friends. My point was that no matter the format of the game, I think the vast majority of the players would agree that getting to change your build once you see what the other team is using is not fair. "O I see you are using the falcon, so I'm going to change my build to include 3 bombers with Cluster Missiles" is just not a fair way to play. So FW in your suggestion may be useful in certain situations and against certain ships, but most of us play in a way that we wouldn't be able to count on those situations/ships being used by our opponent. If that's how you play, that's fine. But it isn't the way most of us play.

 

On a side note, I could see it being fun to play a game where you and your opponent choose 50 pts worth of ships, reveal and then pick the next 50 points and reveal, back and forth so as to counter each others ships.

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