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SableGryphon

Flight School - Lambda 102 (Outflying an X-Wing)

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How would you handle this fight if it were one on one with Dutch and he has one advanced torp, one reg torp, blaster turret, R5-D4, and stealth device?  His characteristics are to move slow as long as he keeps you in the Blaster turret firing ark.  If it makes a diffrence on average they roll 2 out of 3 dice as a hit with BT and will K turn and fire laser cannons only in extreme cases.

Edited by Black Knight Leader

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So the question now is: How do we combat the buzzsaw???

Gunner never goes off if your ship takes damage from the first attack, theoretically wasting up to 15 points in the build, and cutting out a good chunk of the inner synergies.

 

Fast ships can keep up, and ships with tight turning radii or turrets can keep it in their sights.

 

So, in general, we're looking at high-mobility ships, preferably with multiple mobility-based actions, and less than 3 evasion dice.

 

I see Dual Falcons (preferably with Navigator or Expert Handling), Dual Firesprays (preferably with Boost or EH), Triple Hypermobile B-wings (preferably with Daredevil over PTL), and Quad Turret lists as being hard matches for the Bison to beat.

Worse still than all of these is a Tie Swarm. They've got the mobility to keep up, and while the odds for getting the Gunner to go off on them is increased, that doesn't matter as much when you're up against 7 or 8 of the bloody things.

 

 

Tie Interceptors, while being more mobile than the Tie Fighters, still carry the same risks of death. Tie Advanced and A-Wings carry similar risks, though are a bit more survivable. A 5 or 4 list of either isn't gonna cut it against the Herd.

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OK.. as a fun quick build for the training day events.. take the kids out and see if they survive.

 Flight School: Training Day

 Capt Yorr +FCS+Flight Instructor+Engine Upgrade

Howlrunner

4x Academy Pilots

I think you would be better with: 

Omicron Group Pilot (21)Sensor Jammer (4)Flight Instructor (4)Intelligence Agent (1)Engine Upgrade (4)

"Howlrunner" (18)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

I still think the Flight Intructor is wasted on the shuttle, since you only get one evade die. But it certainly adds to the theme of the list.

I had considered that originally, but was rememberimg the ideas you always put forth for the albino galactic bovine. I do think this is a good option for the flavor of the concept..

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I am very much starting to like ADV. Sensors on my Big White Space Heffer's in place of FCS for the options it gives me. I am finding being able to use my Engine Upgrade before I move is proving quite useful in being un-predictable in my Space Bus. It also allows me to TL early if moving is less important that turn, or just plain focus.

 

I have also learned that ramming tactics are great with the bus :-)

 

I am finding Gunner is kicking in less than I would like, so may get cut in favor of other crew.

 

This is what I am currently toying with, but the flight lessons shown here are still valuable.

 

33 points
Bounty Hunter
 
33 points
Omicron Group Pilot #1
Advanced Sensors, Gunner, Engine Upgrade
 
33 points
Omicron Group Pilot #2
Advanced Sensors, Gunner, Engine Upgrade

 

Saving the 10 points on Gunner's would allow some punch on the Firespray who has arse protection duty :-)

Edited by Englishpete

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Sable, not to put holes in this series, but without asteroids this isn't a very realistic scenario, since neither the X or the Lambda could have easily done every single maneuver you outlined.

 

Also, I think the X-Wing player made several classic video game AI mistakes of continuing to simply chase the target around.  Those of us that have kited in WoW/any MMO know that's a bad plan. Had he done a hard 3 at step 4 he would have been much better setup to get a shorter range shot and setup a range 1 joust into a K-Turn at short range. Hell, even a K-Turn at the final step would have been really good for him since he would have likely gotten out of arc and been able to pickup the chase next turn..

 

Its not the speed of the lambda that frequently comes into question, its the turning radius as you explored a bit with the TIE in 101.

 

You are absolutely right. Asteroids would definitely make this harder and/or easier, depending on placement. I plan to explore asteroids. This particular time, though, I wanted to demonstrate that this can be done. A lot of the time when people complain about dogfighting with the doomcow, the problem is that they try to turn hard. The lesson here was to show the value of breaking off, even if you are one on one.

 

There are things that the X-Wing could have done differently. And there are ways the Lambda could have moved to avoid or counter many of those. For example, in step 4, has the X-Wing done a 3 hard turn instead of a bank, and the Lambda done a 2 hard, it would have been much worse for the X-Wing.

 

 

 

Again, your criticism is well taken. My goal here was not to find the perfect series of moves, only to explore one such possibility to get people thinking about different ways to avoid this fate instead of being paralyzed by belief in defeat.

 

This is a classic example of disengaging to create space between you and your pursuer, so you can return to the fight on your terms. Outstandingly demonstrated. Indeed asteroids would tend to complicate things, but by showing us some basics, a tactical concept is born. Well done.

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I know when I first looked at this I said to myself "that X-Wing pilot screwed up right at the start of things."  I mean if 1 or 2 forwards would both result in a crash if the Lambda stayed parked then the smart thing to do would be to move forward 2.  When trailing a Lambda that moves before you do I believe the "goal" space is to keep your front edge right where its front edge had been.

 

I'm not sure when Boost magically appeared on the Shuttle's action bar but it does give it quite the speed edge over an X-Wing that doesn't get that.  Perhaps one would see an X-Wing with EU couldn't survive to go one on one with the EU equipped shuttle but how does a shuttle outfly an X-Wing in that situation when the shuttle has initiative?

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I know when I first looked at this I said to myself "that X-Wing pilot screwed up right at the start of things."  I mean if 1 or 2 forwards would both result in a crash if the Lambda stayed parked then the smart thing to do would be to move forward 2.  When trailing a Lambda that moves before you do I believe the "goal" space is to keep your front edge right where its front edge had been.

 

I'm not sure when Boost magically appeared on the Shuttle's action bar but it does give it quite the speed edge over an X-Wing that doesn't get that.  Perhaps one would see an X-Wing with EU couldn't survive to go one on one with the EU equipped shuttle but how does a shuttle outfly an X-Wing in that situation when the shuttle has initiative?

 

Boost magically appeared thanks to the Engine Upgrade card. Never leave home (in a shuttle) without it. :)

 

As for how to handle an X-Wing with Engine Upgrade, it becomes far, far more difficult. And nigh impossible against an Interceptor if you move first. The trick there is largely 'Asteroids' and it's not something I've fully explored. There's a reason I go after my opponents nimble ships first when I'm flying a snowy pulsar cassowary.

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So, I flew this today.

 

Omicron Group Pilot, Adv. Sensors, Engine Upgrade, Intelligence Agent (29)

 

Omicron Group Pilot, Adv. Sensors, Engine Upgrade, Intelligence Agent (29)

 

Bounty Hunter, Gunner, Engine Upgrade (42)

 

I was up against;

 

Rookie Pilot

 

Blue Squadron

 

Blue Squadron

 

Prototype Pilot

 

Prototype Pilot

 

I set up the Space Bison one on each side and the Firespray slightly left of center. Asteroids were 3 at R2, R2 and the others random placement.

 

What a beauteous flying game this was. Those Adv. Sensors really opened up options and the tips given in these tutorials played into it greatly. The intelligence agents were also very useful in helping decide what actions to take when.

 

I was able to win by destroying all my enemies ships without loss.

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Interesting stuff. I find myself debating between the shuttle and the firespray after i get imperial aces. These threads are making the decision much harder...but are useful.

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Interesting stuff. I find myself debating between the shuttle and the firespray after i get imperial aces. These threads are making the decision much harder...but are useful.

If you have neither, get the Firespray. It's a great craft and will help you get cards you need for the shuttle. Namely, Gunner. :)

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To be fair, that's true for a lot of cards. Push the Limit is in the A-Wing but not the Interceptor (pre-Aces, anyway). Advanced Sensors is in the Shuttle, not the B-wing. Stealth Device is in the Firespray when it really belongs on TIE fighters and Interceptors. Etc, etc.

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It is kind of sad that of the three upgrades that are needed for the buzzsaw, not a one comes with the shuttle.

Also, I should point out that this is the reason the Shuttle was ignored for so long. Only a couple of the upgrade cards that come with the shuttle really help it shine. People lamented having to purchase the Lambda to get cards they wanted for other ships. It took me and a couple others to realize upgrade cards from other ships, when combined just right, can seriously enhance this vessel. This wasn't heavily looked at because the state of the game at the time was very heavily saying you should only have spartan upgrades to get more ships.

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... the state of the game at the time was very heavily saying you should only have spartan upgrades to get more ships.

 

The state of the game is still saying the same. At least regarding eleven of the twelve existing ships.

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... the state of the game at the time was very heavily saying you should only have spartan upgrades to get more ships.

 

The state of the game is still saying the same. At least regarding eleven of the twelve existing ships.

 

 

Meh, I can see 3 rebel elite squads starting to come back into the meta.  With the push for PS4 based squads, the 4 ship varieties lose 8 points to the rebel elites.  4 Reds are 92 points, so you're looking at 8 points of upgrades, it seems like typically 2 are spent converting over to B wings, leaving you with 6 left for other stuff.  Enough to upgrade to one named, or add a Y w/ ICT or something in the systems slot.  But not much else.

Meanwhile, the 3 elites are going to be decked out, and likely capable of taking out one of the PS4 ships first.  It's the PS2 builds that are still troublesome since they'll have enough gear (16 points now instead of 8) to hurt them back.  *shrug.  Still not there yet, but I think that might largely be due to the TIE swarm still sticking around.

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