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sonny sixshooter

Medical skill. Too powerful?

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An old WEG player and GM, Medpacs where one shot use...
We carried over this rule from WEG, along with all our characters and storylines...

 

Since medpacs use encumbrance, each players usually dont carry more then 2. So they know they can't use them sparingly. They mostly save their medpacs for critical injuries. As GM, I almost always deliver a critical injury when i've got enough advantages for it... Criticals make the fights more fun and keep the characters on the edge of their seet... Since they know I use them fairly often, they know they can't mess around too much.

 

Looking at the rules, I've found something akward...

You can only make 1 med check after per encounter, but you can make 1 roll per week per critical injury.

In my group, if you suffer 2 crits in one fight, you can only heal one with the med check for the encounter... the other can only be healed one week later. This made crits more threatening.

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It's a concern I have too. I have a doctor with several ranks of Surgeon and rolls YYYYY for Medicine. The fact that damage never persists sucks, but I'm more concerned that my parties will never not have a doctor again whether somebody actually wants to play one or not because they are just too important.

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It's a concern I have too. I have a doctor with several ranks of Surgeon and rolls YYYYY for Medicine. The fact that damage never persists sucks, but I'm more concerned that my parties will never not have a doctor again whether somebody actually wants to play one or not because they are just too important.

then read my home rules towards the top of this page, they will solve all the problems your having

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It's a concern I have too. I have a doctor with several ranks of Surgeon and rolls YYYYY for Medicine. The fact that damage never persists sucks, but I'm more concerned that my parties will never not have a doctor again whether somebody actually wants to play one or not because they are just too important.

You have one of the most intelligent people on the sector who also the best trained doctor in the sector who has spent a great amount of time on his trauma skills (surgeon) and your concerned that they're too good?

 

When the guy firing his blaster rifle with 5Y and several talents to increase his attack decimates the bad guys do you get concerned?

 

I do medical checks as once per combat scene and only if someone has been injured.  You get one check to heal wounds and one check per critical.  My medic is only rolling 3Y1G with two ranks of surgeon, but I don't erase every single wound or critical every time.

Edited by Ahrimon

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When the guy firing his blaster rifle with 5Y and several talents to increase his attack decimates the bad guys do you get concerned?

 

Think you're selling 5Y combat guy short there, Ahrimon.  With that pool I'd expect to do better than kill one-in-ten of the enemies before me.  ;)

 

Historical joke!

I'll be here all week.  Try the fish.

Edited by Col. Orange

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Realised i made an error on my house rules, so fixed them (had written 2 heal attempts per combat which is against what is written in the CRB)


 


So if you want fair house rules here is some awesome rules i came up with just then in dot point form:


  • After every combat, if you suffered damage in that combat you may have some one attempt to heal you.
  • 1 attempt to heal each person after combat maximum
  • 1 critical injury heal attempt may be made on top of the heal wounds, 1 try to reverse the crit per week.
  • every stim pack used without 24 hours rest causes double the previous stim packs strain
  • A further heal attempt may be made to attempt to heal unrecovered wounds for every day that passes.
  • A bacta tank may be used only if the character suffered a critical or has exceeded half his wound threshold.
  • After medical supplies are used a number of times equal to cost divided by 50 credits. a Red challenge die must be rolled after each medical check, a further red die is added to the next check for each failure rolled stacking cumulatively, a critical means the medpack is out of supplies and must be restocked, any disadvantage provide a disadvantage dice on the next heal check done with this medpack.

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The encounter thing bugged me as well and felt a little bit meta-gamey at our table. "Can we heal now?" was asked quite a few times in our first Beginner Box run. I instituted a couple house rules that, so far, have worked out well.

  1. Base Medicine Rule: Each medicine check reflects everything that that particular doctor was able to do for the patient in those particular circumstances. So, there are only three situations in which a patient can receive another check:
    1. The patient receives fresh wounds since his last check.

 

 

Careful with this caveat.  This implies that in a single encounter, someone could get shot....patched up....immediately shot again. So, can he be treated again right then and there?  Or does the single-heal-per-combat-encounter still apply and he's got to wait a little bit?

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The encounter thing bugged me as well and felt a little bit meta-gamey at our table. "Can we heal now?" was asked quite a few times in our first Beginner Box run. I instituted a couple house rules that, so far, have worked out well.

  1. Base Medicine Rule: Each medicine check reflects everything that that particular doctor was able to do for the patient in those particular circumstances. So, there are only three situations in which a patient can receive another check:
    1. The patient receives fresh wounds since his last check.

 

 

Careful with this caveat.  This implies that in a single encounter, someone could get shot....patched up....immediately shot again. So, can he be treated again right then and there?  Or does the single-heal-per-combat-encounter still apply and he's got to wait a little bit?

 

 

So far it hasn't been an issue, but that's partly because we treat "complex" skill tasks as multi-round endeavors. Since a medic is likely performing several maneuvers and actions in one check (fishing through his pouch for an item, loading a stim injector, unravelling bandages, etc.), it might take 2-5 rounds for him to complete his medicine task. By then, a short encounter is usually almost over. In a more drawn-out fight, this amps up the tension because the medic will likely need protection while he works. It lends a very war-movie feel to being a battlefield medic.

 

So with that, my players really only resort to in-combat treatment if it's a dire emergency. And even at that, if a patched-up PC take further wounds two rounds later, he's likely in a world of hurt, and that second check probably won't break anything.

 

At least it hasn't yet.

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.

It's a concern I have too. I have a doctor with several ranks of Surgeon and rolls YYYYY for Medicine. The fact that damage never persists sucks, but I'm more concerned that my parties will never not have a doctor again whether somebody actually wants to play one or not because they are just too important.

You have one of the most intelligent people on the sector who also the best trained doctor in the sector who has spent a great amount of time on his trauma skills (surgeon) and your concerned that they're too good?

 

When the guy firing his blaster rifle with 5Y and several talents to increase his attack decimates the bad guys do you get concerned?

 

I do medical checks as once per combat scene and only if someone has been injured.  You get one check to heal wounds and one check per critical.  My medic is only rolling 3Y1G with two ranks of surgeon, but I don't erase every single wound or critical every time.

You presume quite a bit here. Firstly, "concern" is a pretty soft word. I didn't complain that he was too good for what he's invested into, I am concerned that a good doctor is so important to the party dynamics that it'll take away choice, at least to some degree, when it comes time to start a new campaign or reroll characters.

Yes, I have a YYYYG Ranged (Heavy) rolling Mercenary Soldier in my group. She took out half an encounter on the first initiative slot this week. I am concerned that she is so good that the rest of my party groans when combat starts. Of course it makes sense that she's this good. Doesn't always mean it's good for the game as a whole (and doesn't mean it's bad either, just concerned it might be).

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  • 1 critical injury heal attempt may be made on top of the heal wounds, 1 try to reverse the crit per week.
  • every stim pack used without 24 hours rest causes double the previous stim packs strain
  • After medical supplies are used a number of times equal to cost divided by 50 credits. a Red challenge die must be rolled after each medical check, a further red die is added to the next check for each failure rolled stacking cumulatively, a critical means the medpack is out of supplies and must be restocked, any disadvantage provide a disadvantage dice on the next heal check done with this medpack.

 

  • The one check regardless of how many times you are critically hit in combat will definately go a long ways toward making combat more deadly.
  • Why do you apply strain for a stimpack?  How much strain do you apply?  Is that something from the rules or are you refering to the ability boost action the doctor can take and not to using stimpacks to heal? 
  • My GM and I had a discussion prior to starting our campaign about the medpacks.  He thought they were one use based on the medpack descriptions from previous games.  I read them as buy it once and done.  I contacted FFG about it and they confirmed that it is buy it once and done.  But I would not be against a despair on a medical check meaning that it couldn't be used until the next downtime where broken instruments could be replaced.

 

So far it hasn't been an issue, but that's partly because we treat "complex" skill tasks as multi-round endeavors. Since a medic is likely performing several maneuvers and actions in one check (fishing through his pouch for an item, loading a stim injector, unravelling bandages, etc.), it might take 2-5 rounds for him to complete his medicine task. By then, a short encounter is usually almost over. In a more drawn-out fight, this amps up the tension because the medic will likely need protection while he works. It lends a very war-movie feel to being a battlefield medic.

 

So with that, my players really only resort to in-combat treatment if it's a dire emergency. And even at that, if a patched-up PC take further wounds two rounds later, he's likely in a world of hurt, and that second check probably won't break anything.

 

At least it hasn't yet.

 

With a combat round being up to a minute long, I think the assumption in the book is that you can do a medical check in one round.  Take for instance the movie serenity.  The doctor checks the zoe's back and sprays some foam stuff all in under a minute.  That is a great example of a healing check during combat to me.

 

While I agree that doing a healing check in the middle of combat to heal wounds and then not being able to do one after is a little gamey, it's the rules, and I'll follow them.  I don't see myself doing checks in combat for wounds though.  Crits yes, wounds no.  But since you are allowed one check per crit by default I don't see that as being too much of a problem for our group.

 

It hasn't come up with us yet either.

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.You presume quite a bit here. Firstly, "concern" is a pretty soft word. I didn't complain that he was too good for what he's invested into, I am concerned that a good doctor is so important to the party dynamics that it'll take away choice, at least to some degree, when it comes time to start a new campaign or reroll characters.

 

That's why I roll with a medic from AoR.  It's a good mix of doctor and soldier.  A quick dip into sharpshooter would make me pretty formidable with my pistol if I decide to go that route.

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.You presume quite a bit here. Firstly, "concern" is a pretty soft word. I didn't complain that he was too good for what he's invested into, I am concerned that a good doctor is so important to the party dynamics that it'll take away choice, at least to some degree, when it comes time to start a new campaign or reroll characters.

 

That's why I roll with a medic from AoR.  It's a good mix of doctor and soldier.  A quick dip into sharpshooter would make me pretty formidable with my pistol if I decide to go that route.

 

The best possible news. I don't have the beta, but am definitely moving my campaign into AoR (or at least straddling the line) once it releases. So I'm glad to hear that.

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Something I haven't seen mentioned with regard to healing:

 

Just because your medic is clearing out the party's *Wounds*, doesn't mean he's clearing out their Critical Injuries, or the associated modifier to future Critical Injury rolls.

 

I've been in a game where healing meant the party was virtually clean on their wound threshold, but two of the party had already accumulated a +60 or better on critical injury checks.  Needless to say, our slicer and our beat-stick (the two party members in question) were a bit shy about doing anything that might involve more fighting.

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  • 1 critical injury heal attempt may be made on top of the heal wounds, 1 try to reverse the crit per week.
  • every stim pack used without 24 hours rest causes double the previous stim packs strain
  • After medical supplies are used a number of times equal to cost divided by 50 credits. a Red challenge die must be rolled after each medical check, a further red die is added to the next check for each failure rolled stacking cumulatively, a critical means the medpack is out of supplies and must be restocked, any disadvantage provide a disadvantage dice on the next heal check done with this medpack.

 

  • The one check regardless of how many times you are critically hit in combat will definately go a long ways toward making combat more deadly.
  • Why do you apply strain for a stimpack?  How much strain do you apply?  Is that something from the rules or are you refering to the ability boost action the doctor can take and not to using stimpacks to heal? 
  • My GM and I had a discussion prior to starting our campaign about the medpacks.  He thought they were one use based on the medpack descriptions from previous games.  I read them as buy it once and done.  I contacted FFG about it and they confirmed that it is buy it once and done.  But I would not be against a despair on a medical check meaning that it couldn't be used until the next downtime where broken instruments could be replaced.

Ok based that rule on my gm's home rule of a stimpack gives 2 strain..... having re-read the stim pack entries and now that i know my gm taught me wrong i will change that dot point too:

  • stimpacks have diminishing returns, each stimpack heals 1 less then the last stimpack until a 24 hour break between injections has occurred. 

 

In reference to the medpack, yes they are buy it once, that is a home rule to allow medpacks be more realistic in the game, in that they need restocking every now and then.

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I look at the medpack as more equipment, scanners, automated dodads and such.  Of course it has expendables, but those are re-filled off screen.  Much like you reload/recharge blasters off-screen.  And if you ever get an out of ammo result it only lasts until the end of combat and then the game just assumes that you've reloaded/recharged somewhere.  So if we're ever stranded in the middle of nowhere I won't be upset if it runs out or starts giving setback dice to account for dwindling supplies.  But as long as we're near civilization it should just keep going.

 

A medpack isn't just a little first aid kit.  It's a full blown trauma bag (with futuristic re-usable tools).  It should be good for several checks before it's out.  Once and done would be like making people replace their blasters after every fight because it's out of power.

 

Maybe you could suggest to your GM that instead of use once you start adding setback or increasing the difficulty after every couple of checks to take into account the dwindling supplies.  Then, once that despair drops it's out.

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I look at the medpack as more equipment, scanners, automated dodads and such.  Of course it has expendables, but those are re-filled off screen.  Much like you reload/recharge blasters off-screen.  And if you ever get an out of ammo result it only lasts until the end of combat and then the game just assumes that you've reloaded/recharged somewhere.  So if we're ever stranded in the middle of nowhere I won't be upset if it runs out or starts giving setback dice to account for dwindling supplies.  But as long as we're near civilization it should just keep going.

 

A medpack isn't just a little first aid kit.  It's a full blown trauma bag (with futuristic re-usable tools).  It should be good for several checks before it's out.  Once and done would be like making people replace their blasters after every fight because it's out of power.

 

Maybe you could suggest to your GM that instead of use once you start adding setback or increasing the difficulty after every couple of checks to take into account the dwindling supplies.  Then, once that despair drops it's out.

 

I agree.  I kinda just assumed that my character is replenishing the expendable stuff between adventures.  Who wants to keep track of that stuff?

 

(But I also assume Oskara's going out to the movies, going to clubs, eating out, bringing in minor bounties, maintaining her gear, etc., too - all without spending or getting paid.)

Edited by Col. Orange

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Sorry for hijacking the topic. I have a problem which is related to Medicine check being too powerful, kinda. I have a payer that is a Doctor but finds his Medicine check useless because stimpack can heal a lot on its own and requires no check in order to restore hit points. Can someone explain to me how to balance this or why Medicine is better?

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Sorry for hijacking the topic. I have a problem which is related to Medicine check being too powerful, kinda. I have a payer that is a Doctor but finds his Medicine check useless because stimpack can heal a lot on its own and requires no check in order to restore hit points. Can someone explain to me how to balance this or why Medicine is better?

You can't heal Strain with Stimpacks or critical injuries.

 

You need to run campaigns in a way where PCs are involved in multiple combat scenarios within a 24 period, which will relegate Stimpacks to things that should be used mid battle as opposed for simple maintenance healing.

 

Whether you run the combat scenarios over multiple sessions within a 24 hour game time period, or use the single roll for combat checks found in the GM section alternate rules, you will start to limit the usefulness of Stimpacks.

Edited by 2P51

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Sorry for hijacking the topic. I have a problem which is related to Medicine check being too powerful, kinda. I have a payer that is a Doctor but finds his Medicine check useless because stimpack can heal a lot on its own and requires no check in order to restore hit points. Can someone explain to me how to balance this or why Medicine is better?

You can't heal Strain with Stimpacks or critical injuries.

 

You need to run campaigns in a way where PCs are involved in multiple combat scenarios within a 24 period, which will relegate Stimpacks to things that should be used mid battle as opposed for simple maintenance healing.

 

Whether you run the combat scenarios over multiple sessions within a 24 hour game time period, or use the single roll for combat checks found in the GM section alternate rules, you will start to limit the usefulness of Stimpacks.

 

This makes a lot of sense. I've started my groups out on the same campaign and so far they are only on their second in-game day. Stimpacks have been useful to them as well as medical checks but they aren't 100% after every encounter.

 

I run it so they can either made a medical check mid-combat or as soon as it finishes, if time permits but only once per PC until the next combat.

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Sorry for hijacking the topic. I have a problem which is related to Medicine check being too powerful, kinda. I have a payer that is a Doctor but finds his Medicine check useless because stimpack can heal a lot on its own and requires no check in order to restore hit points. Can someone explain to me how to balance this or why Medicine is better?

Hoorah! Please check out my thread. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/202521-wounds-strain-and-stimpaks-slight-adjustment/

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