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SableGryphon

Flight School - Lambda 101

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Thank you SableGryphon for this master class in alabaster pan-galactic yak piloting.

 

I have one slowly winging its way to me, and now I can't wait to go over to the Dark Side and experiment with it.

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I know you love the Buzzsaw... but I love the Dogfighter: Sensors + engine (and then usually rebel captive and HLC). 135 degrees in a turn.

 

That's not to say that both don't have a place. But not mentioning all 3 types (and really there is a tank fourth that will see play soon when Carnor Jax comes out) is being disingenuous to the Great Space Cow of the Sky. We ought to figure out where each ship plays well. (meaning I ought to fly the Buzzsaw a few more times and you the Dogfighter) 

Edited by Kelvan

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Great post on flying the Shuttle.  One of the things that I've found with using the Shuttle is that Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrades vastly increases your ability to maneuver the shuttle.  You can now Boost then do a Hard 2, then on the next turn do a green 1 bank.  You've now gone 180 degree's in 2 turns instead of 3, and when you come out of the 2 turn you have an action that can support your shot, like TL or Focus.

 

I find the Shuttle to be one of the Best ships for Supporting a Mini Swarm.  When armed well this beast can lay down some great supporting fire.  With it's cheaper cost then the, 12pts cheaper then a Bounty Hunter, that gives you 1 more Tie fighter to add to your Swarm.

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My favorite buzzsaw of the moment... Jendon + FCS, Engine, Weapons Engineer That plus 5 academies.

 

Target Locks for everyone.

 

My Favorite Dogfighter: Yorr (used for PS less than the pilot ability + Sensors, Engine, HLC, Rebel Captive

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Ok, serious question for you guys. My photo skills are poor as you saw in the initial post. But I think pictures really add to this.

 

Would you prefer something like this, being a screen capture from Vassal?

 

LambdaSpeed.png

 

This would give a much better feel for distances and looks cleaner, but it's using the standard Vassal iconography which isn't the real thing.

 

Would you like to see me using this going forward? Would you like me to redo the pictures on the Flight School 101 this way? Or should I continue with actual pictures?

 

Also, I know many of you have personal favorite shuttle setups you prefer over the one I referenced. You are right, I could spend an entire post like the original going over the different setups. I wanted to start with the gold standard before branching into those other viable setups. Advanced Sensors particularly is a very different and more complicated beast. I might just have to do that. But for now, I'm exploring what just Boost can do and how to handle the craft.

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Great post on flying the Shuttle.  One of the things that I've found with using the Shuttle is that Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrades vastly increases your ability to maneuver the shuttle.  You can now Boost then do a Hard 2, then on the next turn do a green 1 bank.  You've now gone 180 degree's in 2 turns instead of 3, and when you come out of the 2 turn you have an action that can support your shot, like TL or Focus.

 

I find the Shuttle to be one of the Best ships for Supporting a Mini Swarm.  When armed well this beast can lay down some great supporting fire.  With it's cheaper cost then the, 12pts cheaper then a Bounty Hunter, that gives you 1 more Tie fighter to add to your Swarm.

Dogfighter Shuttle...

 

Frogs had great success at worlds flying the Space Manatee as a Doom Shuttle with two bounty hunters. 

 

Great Dogfighter list 98 points for new super init (competitively you need to blame Jacob Pichelmyer for this):

5 academies

OGP w/ engine, captive, sensors, HLC

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Ok, serious question for you guys. My photo skills are poor as you saw in the initial post. But I think pictures really add to this.

 

Would you prefer something like this, being a screen capture from Vassal?

 

LambdaSpeed.png

 

This would give a much better feel for distances and looks cleaner, but it's using the standard Vassal iconography which isn't the real thing.

 

Would you like to see me using this going forward? Would you like me to redo the pictures on the Flight School 101 this way? Or should I continue with actual pictures?

 

Also, I know many of you have personal favorite shuttle setups you prefer over the one I referenced. You are right, I could spend an entire post like the original going over the different setups. I wanted to start with the gold standard before branching into those other viable setups. Advanced Sensors particularly is a very different and more complicated beast. I might just have to do that. But for now, I'm exploring what just Boost can do and how to handle the craft.

My preference is always VASSAL because it's cleaner... I don't want to take anything from your photos though, they look great.

 

I may or may not be doing a write up for the shuttle soon and I'm glad i'm not the only one giving the shuttle love. You and me Sable are different sides of a very large, white, awkward to fly coin. Keep on keeping on.

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Awesome write up, thank!

 

I like the Vassal images for the addition of arcs and such though your pics also help. I say do both, because I am demanding, Use vassal when it is better and your camera when an isometric image would be more helpful.

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Great post on flying the Shuttle.  One of the things that I've found with using the Shuttle is that Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrades vastly increases your ability to maneuver the shuttle.  You can now Boost then do a Hard 2, then on the next turn do a green 1 bank.  You've now gone 180 degree's in 2 turns instead of 3, and when you come out of the 2 turn you have an action that can support your shot, like TL or Focus. I find the Shuttle to be one of the Best ships for Supporting a Mini Swarm.  When armed well this beast can lay down some great supporting fire.  With it's cheaper cost then the, 12pts cheaper then a Bounty Hunter, that gives you 1 more Tie fighter to add to your Swarm.

Dogfighter Shuttle... Frogs had great success at worlds flying the Space Manatee as a Doom Shuttle with two bounty hunters.  Great Dogfighter list 98 points for new super init (competitively you need to blame Jacob Pichelmyer for this):5 academiesOGP w/ engine, captive, sensors, HLC

I wonder if that HLC Shuttle list performs better than:

Bounty Hunter + HLC

Academy Tie x 5

Perks to shuttle list:

Can more easily park behind the swarm with adv sensors, using bumps and 0 moves.

Rebel Captive helps deter shuttle targetting

Perks to Bounty Hunter list:

Firespray is more survivable.

Can Kturn

Can use rear arc

PS 3 vs PS 2

I don't know which one I'd prefer, as parking behind your swarm for a few turns is invaluable on a big ship.

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Great post on flying the Shuttle.  One of the things that I've found with using the Shuttle is that Advanced Sensors and Engine Upgrades vastly increases your ability to maneuver the shuttle.  You can now Boost then do a Hard 2, then on the next turn do a green 1 bank.  You've now gone 180 degree's in 2 turns instead of 3, and when you come out of the 2 turn you have an action that can support your shot, like TL or Focus. I find the Shuttle to be one of the Best ships for Supporting a Mini Swarm.  When armed well this beast can lay down some great supporting fire.  With it's cheaper cost then the, 12pts cheaper then a Bounty Hunter, that gives you 1 more Tie fighter to add to your Swarm.

Dogfighter Shuttle... Frogs had great success at worlds flying the Space Manatee as a Doom Shuttle with two bounty hunters.  Great Dogfighter list 98 points for new super init (competitively you need to blame Jacob Pichelmyer for this):5 academiesOGP w/ engine, captive, sensors, HLC

I wonder if that HLC Shuttle list performs better than:

Bounty Hunter + HLC

Academy Tie x 5

Perks to shuttle list:

Can more easily park behind the swarm with adv sensors, using bumps and 0 moves.

Rebel Captive helps deter shuttle targetting

Perks to Bounty Hunter list:

Firespray is more survivable.

Can Kturn

Can use rear arc

PS 3 vs PS 2

I don't know which one I'd prefer, as parking behind your swarm for a few turns is invaluable on a big ship.

 

You will get more HLC shots with the Shuttle because you can park.  With the Firespray you are forced to K-turn to get the HLC back online, but often it's better to just use the rear arc instead of the K-turn.  I find I like Gunner on the Firespray more then HLC.

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I would say against low agility ships that may be the time the build with the advanced sensors comes into its own. As you'll score those hits in the first go around, so gunner is more just insurance you'll do something, and not really as worth it. Advanced sensors is also on the plate more if you'll be running the shuttles as bumpers so you can get you action, disrupt theirs and perhaps pair it with anti pursuit lasers for those builds. As well FCS isn't quite as handy vs those high agility ships so a quicker turn can be nice for the dog fighter class shuttle, or "The SheepDog " As with the adcanced sensors and engine upgrade that shuttle could keep rounding up those errant sheep for the sheering.

 

However I think we need a concensus on the sheepdog, so we may have the nicknames and builds known. As well it would be nice to have one with the sensor jammer and extras thought up with a nickname, as its point is more like an ECM that can function well using Kagi.

 

For the set up with dual Merc Co pilots, and heavy laser cannons, I'm in favor of calling that build the Albino Longhorn.

 

Doomshuttle is being used for the vader build, could also be "The black sheep "

 

Any I am missing any ? I'm sure we'll have more and more builds and names as time goes on. Would be nice if the community settled on the names and build specifics, then we'll really be the elite.

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just a quick clarification.

with your opening maneuver with the cream cosmic carabao, is my intent right in keeping it out of the first engagement (positioning wise), and have it join in the battle after it has already begun?

such a tactic would make sense, especially when you pair it up with Yorr or Kagi, but with Jendon it would be a bit tricky to use / not appropriate at all

If you can fire first turn with it, especially if taking minimal return fire, do so! Unless the angles are weird that means you should be able to stop or 1 speed next round, stop or start the turn around turn 3. That's 2-3 rounds of fire, and that is exactly what you want out of the great white doombison. If your opponent has swarmed it you should have 68pts of pain firing on their flank or if they ignored it get turning ASAP and get your other ships to where it will be in 2 turns.

It's like the read option in football... Deadly when assembled and timed properly. But useless if the defense has it covered.

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I would say against low agility ships that may be the time the build with the advanced sensors comes into its own. As you'll score those hits in the first go around, so gunner is more just insurance you'll do something, and not really as worth it. Advanced sensors is also on the plate more if you'll be running the shuttles as bumpers so you can get you action, disrupt theirs and perhaps pair it with anti pursuit lasers for those builds. As well FCS isn't quite as handy vs those high agility ships so a quicker turn can be nice for the dog fighter class shuttle, or "The SheepDog " As with the adcanced sensors and engine upgrade that shuttle could keep rounding up those errant sheep for the sheering.

 

However I think we need a concensus on the sheepdog, so we may have the nicknames and builds known. As well it would be nice to have one with the sensor jammer and extras thought up with a nickname, as its point is more like an ECM that can function well using Kagi.

 

For the set up with dual Merc Co pilots, and heavy laser cannons, I'm in favor of calling that build the Albino Longhorn.

 

Doomshuttle is being used for the vader build, could also be "The black sheep "

 

Any I am missing any ? I'm sure we'll have more and more builds and names as time goes on. Would be nice if the community settled on the names and build specifics, then we'll really be the elite.

 

How about this:

 

Captain Kagi (42)

Sensor Jammer

Ion Cannon

Rebel Captive

Intelligence Agent

Shield Upgrade

 

Since this is a very support-heavy build for the shuttle, which plays into a strategy of controlling the opponent, we can call this the SWACS build. (SWACS = Space Warning And Control System, a play off of real-life AWACS.) I know, it's not a bovine-themed name like it seems you want, but I hope it's acceptable nonetheless.

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If your playing the disruption and controlling game, would it be better to knock off the shield upgrade and put in anti pursuit lasrers then ? Would save a some points. As is, 42 pts is a bit heavy for a shuttle, even a PS 8 one. I do like the feel of the build a lot, as well well the SWACS is good for a name, though I'm going to be thinking of a way to run with that and also bring it back to the bovines.

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How about this:

Captain Kagi (42)

Sensor Jammer

Ion Cannon

Rebel Captive

Intelligence Agent

Shield Upgrade

Since this is a very support-heavy build for the shuttle, which plays into a strategy of controlling the opponent, we can call this the SWACS build. (SWACS = Space Warning And Control System, a play off of real-life AWACS.) I know, it's not a bovine-themed name like it seems you want, but I hope it's acceptable nonetheless.

For any shuttle not trying to force kill itself slowly I'd always include engines. ALWAYS Edited by perniciousducks

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I build my tank shuttles with ion, jammer, captive, and engine. It can bump, ionize stressed ships and take quite a lot of hits (Jammer tends to prevent 2-3 damage a game, it's the best defensive card in the game except for MF title.) With Carnor Jax in the mix there will be a greater opportunity for jammer.

 

You may as well consider the base cost of the shuttle 24 (doom shuttle) or 25 (shuttle w/ engine) when calculating lists.

Edited by Kelvan

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Regarding the images, I really like looking at the pictures, but given the scale of the maneuvers that will be demonstrated, it probably would be better conveyed via VASSAL.  Less pretty but more functional.

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I vote for VASSAL graphics although they aren't as "fun". It would make multi-turn steps easier to see in context of the entire play area (for example, the photo of the turn radius doesn't quite capture the full effect of the huge turn radius). Also, it should be easier to annotate the graphics when you need to without having to deal with camera perspective.

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Had a second found of bovine husbandry tonight. Gave my kiddo a chewie shoots first list, and Luke to keep things interesting. Took a combo, gunner, omicron, boost, adv sensor build and had enough points for a ap with a shield to back the beast up. I was, of course, horribly killed but maneuvering was good practice. After my first pass I was able to swing around behind the falcon, which would have been much cooker had it not had a turret.

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Sable, how do you feel about the various cannon types and about Sensor Jammer on the shuttle? I feel Sensor Jammer is good for deterring a lot of damage it might otherwise face, so I was hoping for your opinion on it. Additionally, how do you feel about Autoblaster and Ion Cannon? Heavy Laser Cannon is of course quite popular, but I'm curious about your take on the other two.

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Reminds me of something I found when looking at other naval games - if you've got the least manouvrable ships, tough, with good forward firepower, there is a historical example called the Thach Weave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thach_Weave

Two shuttles, starting on opposite flanks, are essentially pulling a single 'weave' as they cover each other's tails.

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*Incoming shameless self promotion*.....

 

If you want to see a partial Thach Weave in action with 2 buzzsaw Lamda's, I have a battle report below:

 

It actually worked pretty well.  I probably could have started the shuttles a little further toward the board edges, but the starting points I chose worked ok.

Edited by Texx

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I play a lot against Han shoots first builds with low maneuverability. (B's mostly) so the gunner doesn't work out for me. I have been taking 2 Shuttles with HLC, FCS, EU and 2 mercs along with Jonus and causing stupid amounts of damage, especially when I keep my shuttles apart so one of them is usually lining up a range 3 shot while re other is shooting first to clear shields on whoever the poor bastard is caught in between them.

I don't really stop and shoot again, I try to zoom past and come around later. Jonus has a hard time keeping up though.

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*Incoming shameless self promotion*.....

 

If you want to see a partial Thach Weave in action with 2 buzzsaw Lamda's, I have a battle report below:

 

It actually worked pretty well.  I probably could have started the shuttles a little further toward the board edges, but the starting points I chose worked ok.

 

nice. i think both squads are quite strong. imo the rebel player showed his 'rookieness' in setup and should have kept his b-wings tighter but he adapted fast and did very well. this game showed me how shuttles can and should be blocked to keep them from boosting - those large bases on a 2 PS ship CAN be vulnerable to 1PS ships - but not too many people are playing them (I can only think of Prototype Pilots and Alpha Academies off my head). thanx for posting.

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