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Quoth

woops! PCs AP too high...

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This game needs "corrosive" weapons.. ;-)

Hell yes!

I tried talking my party into a similar thing to this but there was a bit of an uprising.

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Meltabomb stuck to the Tech-Priests Shiny Metal Ass is a very good idea. 

 

A trio of trained grapplers team up to pin him, one of the slaps the magno-and-glue-adhesive melta to his ass, and they manoeuvre him of the top of a staircase. The tech priests rolls down as the timer ticks, so he probably won't even have noticed the bomb, much less be able to remove it, and it takes him and the blast range conveniently away from the grapplers :)

 

I did this to the tech-priest in our group. It was hilarious. He lived...

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So at the beginning of the campaign, the party started a few ranks in and 1000 thrones. The tecky of the group picked up armour crafting skills and talents giving him about a 80 to roll against before buffs/pens, then he made best quality carapace armour with a shield giving him 12-15AP in various locations.

Part of this was due to a misunderstanding of the rules and his feverish defense that its cheaper to make something than straight up buy it. But hey I can live with it.

The problem is, he soaks pretty much all damage from any none heavy weapon, meaning combat is pretty stuffed.

I want to know ways to threaten him, without resorting to weapons that would out right kill him if they pen'd (MP lascannon for example) and still offer a fun gaming experience for the rest of the group. The only thing I have found is that an unarmed attack deals 1 level of fatigue, so he can be punched unconscious.

Any ideas?

Please can you explain how this "12 -15 AP carapace armour with shield" exactly comes up to live? I remember carapace armor, I remember  "best quality" but I do not see how it comes up to this.

This "80s roll" is something I do not get, either. Is he actually having a force field?

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The 80's is for his roll on Trade Armourer. I guess Int50 and Trade Armourer +20 and Talented

 

I asked him too and he ment that the TB is included. So from RAW i'g guess TB 5 + 7 (BQ Carapace Armour)

with another + 4 (Lockshield) for one arm, body and Legs/Head.

Said shield can be found in the Book of Judgement, page 66.

If you want to powerplay put on an Enviromental Body Glove (Inquisitors Handbook, page 151) to gain another point on all locations.

That would give you 13-17 points of soak, modifyable by Pen.

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The 80's is for his roll on Trade Armourer. I guess Int50 and Trade Armourer +20 and Talented

 

I asked him too and he ment that the TB is included. So from RAW i'g guess TB 5 + 7 (BQ Carapace Armour)

with another + 4 (Lockshield) for one arm, body and Legs/Head.

Said shield can be found in the Book of Judgement, page 66.

If you want to powerplay put on an Enviromental Body Glove (Inquisitors Handbook, page 151) to gain another point on all locations.

That would give you 13-17 points of soak, modifyable by Pen.

I see, thanks for pointing it out!

So... TB:5;  A best quality strom trooper carapce (AP:7 overall) and a nearly man-sized riot shield providing an additional +4 AP, comming upt to 11 when applied.

That is really hefty when brought to battle, but as already mentioned that is not a loadout you carry around all day long without drawing attention. We are talking "full scale civil riot Arbites Loadout" here. As GM , I would make sure to describe how people get uneasy as they see the group coming and people leaving quietly. If strangers dressed for war come in....

Anyway, I once had some nice combat encounters written...let me there were I have them and if they will suit your needs here... (more to come)

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If they are prepared for war, you need to give them hell.  If the scenario/type of enemy allows for army-type-squads, a send in 7 to 12 guys in Guard Flak Armour and arm them with Krak Grenades (Pen:6; 2d10+4) and one of them even with a grenade launcher. 
I would assign Armageddon- Patter Assault Rifles with Stubber ammo, too.

Trained Professionals: Allow them +2 Ini Bonus if the pc are a) on the defenses and  b) your pc´s "Commander" does not pass an Ordinary Check on "Tacticae Imperialis".  Don´t forget to give them  BF to allow for “Mighty Shot” (and the added damage bonus).

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If you are up against ugly mutants, make them really ugly.  A brute with ST 48 and T: 48 that comes with Unnatural Strenght and Toughness should give your group at least some headaches. Give hime some scraps of patch armour (flakk 2) and heavy medivial helmet (primitive 5). Make him really big,so you can justify high amount of wounds (20 or 25; which was declared “human maximum” in “Ascension”). Give him "Fear 1", just for the case. And use WS of at least 36. Add "Crushing Blow". Put a chain axe in his hammy fist and we are talking 1d10+14//AP:2 damage “total” here, with the tearing quality.

Make sure his "friends" are with him, because he will not last long otherwise. A dozen mutants, a third of them throwing fire bombs (AP:6). Not for the damage. No matter how mad your pc are, they cannot simply stay still in fire. Even if the do not get damage, the fire eats up there air, a fatigue level per round they volunteer to stand inside the fire is totally alright!. If they move out, it is a chance for "Biggy" to close in.
Add a "wyrdling" somehwere who got "Weapon Jinx" and a Psi-Power of 2. Give him a decent willpower  so he can "overbleed" and therefore cause 2 or three weapons to Jam. More time for biggy and friends. And will the pc spot him? He does not need to look different then the other mutants, a hard (-20) Test on “Forbidden Lore(Psyker or Mutants)” could do the trick, so. Add one to three hounds charging the pc. They deal with them or they "jump them". Even if there teeth can´t hurt them, a large dog jumping at you full speed is totally able to just send you flat on your beg (treat it as a take down if the characters do not pass  Strength test). More wasted time for getting up.  If they "shot them like the dogs they are", it is more fire distracted from biggy and the boys.

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If you fight scum and cultists, the attention those “heavy gears snooping around” draw justify to put a “Judge Slayer” in the hands of a number of the guys they are after (not all of them, mind you!). That will at least help a little AND those things are neither rare nor all to expensive. So, go ahead and have every forth or so have them. Again, Firebombs are your friend so one would need to expect a fight to have them. Like, if you are up to go on a riot or to set an ambush or if you put some last-ditch affords into the arsenal to defend your hideout against the attackers
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A point  no GM ever seems to use (and sure no FFG mission so far): have the enemies TURN AND RUN! No, really. Hideouts have secret exits, perhaps. Plan one mission were the characters come to the lair, charge in and have and see half of the cultists/recidivist/what ever TURN AND RUN. Now have the characters run after them and give them instead of a “final fight showdown” a wild chase to capture as many of the cultists as possible. Be sure to prepare an environment, turns and tweeks, things that get in the way and give the characters a chance to follow. Have SOME “enemies” be mad, stupid or shocked enough to stand and fight for (another) round or two so the other get a head start. The characters might shot some down.
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Weapon servitors are no bad choice, either. Heavy Stubbers are a good start, close combat servitors are, too.

And again...make sure to take the fact that the character is totting a towering shield along into the description of any scene. You do not need to pester him unnecessary, but  FAIR AND SQUARE such things should make a difference. Even in the GRIMDARK40K.

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On the topic of shields, is it possible to use the Disarm talent to disarm an opponent of their shield, as opposed to their primary weapon?

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Well then, if you're throwing melee characters at them, that might be one easy way to remove some of that armor, assuming the Tech Priest isn't a close combat specialist.

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Send grunts with manstoppers, rivet guns and can openers. Up the pen of enemy weapons and balance by sacrificing damage.

 

"Hulkbuster" rivet revolver range 20m 1d10+1 I pen 6 clip 3 or somesuch.

 

also consider adopting the rule that toughness bonus (after armour reductions) cannot negate damage to less than one point. After all a small hole in you will still bleed a bit a the very least even if you are the clint eastwoods tougher catachan big brother enough small holes will kill you.

Edited by Askil

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 best quality carapace armour with a shield giving him 12-15AP in various locations.

(...)

The problem is, he soaks pretty much all damage from any none heavy weapon, meaning combat is pretty stuffed.

I want to know ways to threaten him, without resorting to weapons that would out right kill him if they pen'd (MP lascannon for example) and still offer a fun gaming experience for the rest of the group.  (...)

Any ideas?

I forgot something rather simple: that hefty guy with that chain axe

Nothing but a ST:40 opponent with the "Crushing Blow" Talent, wielding a chain axe. 1d10+10 dmg // AP:2 // tearing.

As long as the opposition makes use of trained/dedicated fighters, this one is both belieavable AND able to punch above his weight. Not mutation or "strange stuff" or anything needed.

 

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I have the same problem as you have. My acolytes have full carapace armour and decent TB, which gives them a minimum of 9 AP across the party. When faced with opponents that use natural attacks gives them AP of 15 at least. Add to the fact that they are so well armed and lucky with their rules (especially the assassin and the psyker), they can devastate most opponents within 2 rounds. That's why I figure the best way to deal with them is to hit them hard and fast with assault rifles i.e.

 

In one fight I attacked my party of 4 acolytes with 9 mutants. The mutants lowered my psyker down to -5 critical wounds in one round and delt minimal damage to the rest of the party.. The assassin proceeded to kill two mutants the next round (within 2 m of each other) and the psyker healed himself to full wounds. Needless to say, 4 more mutants died the next round while the survivors fled. 

 

For the next battle I think I'm gonna toss some gun servitors at them and later have them enter a booby trapped room that will send a couple of their limbs flying. That way I'll teach them the value of a savings account for emergencies.. :)

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Accurate weapons are an excellent solution to heavily armored enemies. With a good attack roll, a simple hunting rifle with manstopper rounds can deal 3d10+4 damage with 3 Pen (though only one damage die can cause RF).

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Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.

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Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.

Problem enemies running power weapons is that the players are going to steal them from the dead.

What you do is you use a Daemon weapon or two ... it's pretty easy for them to bypass armor or have funky effects. And, they're both not easy to dispose of for funds and they are also not something that the PCs will pick up and use themselves without a second thought.

 

Use one-shot expendables as much as possible - first, they're cheaper and easier to acquire, second, any that don't get used and thus get captured by the PCs will be less potentially destabilizing.

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Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.

Problem enemies running power weapons is that the players are going to steal them from the dead.

 

Mark them up with heretical symbols that no honest Acolyte would take under fear of being branded a heretic just for carrying them?

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The characters are basically religious cops. Stealing from the dead is completely out of character and suspension of disbelief-breaking.

Not really. The tradition of siezing/confiscating valuables/weapons from the dead/dead heretics/defeated enemies is a very long one. Admittedly, the extent to which that happens has varied historically, but it's pretty standard.

Besides, it's the PC's confiscating them in the name of the Inquisition/Arbites/Ecclesiarchy/etc, so as to deny them to any future heretics/criminals, and to put those that can be used into the service of the God-Emperor. Ignoring the PCs with criminal backgrounds who'll steal the stuff more or less on principle/out of reflex.

 

 

Also ... if you think that PCs won't grab anything they can, I really have to wonder who/what kind of games you've been playing with.

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Also ... if you think that PCs won't grab anything they can, I really have to wonder who/what kind of games you've been playing with.

 

People that didn´t start out playing dungeons and dragons and other such loot centred games.

 

Just make it pretty clear for the players that unless that they can come up for a reason as for why they should take something with them do they really not have to loot since it isn´t fitting into the setting, as said in another thread, either is the loot from heritics, owned by other parts of the emperium that wants it back, or from xenos, take your pick of who and how you will piss people of.

 

Beside that and even more of topic than it already is, throw some limitations on how much they can take with them (1 melee, 1 pistol, 1 basic, 1 "light" armour and 1 grenades with 3 reloads for all things that need that, each other thing that they want costing a point from their combined Strength Toughness stat bonus pool. That is at least how we play.) and you will quickly see them behave.

 

And back to the subject, there is a single pyromancer power that makes one ignore both toughness and armour... maybe is it time for them to meet a psyker of that school

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Just make it pretty clear for the players that unless that they can come up for a reason as for why they should take something with them

 

In my own group the reasoning: "It's better than the gun/sword I'm using" generally flies with my GM, unless the weapon is quite obviously heretical (whether through Tech Heresy or actual Heresy). Maybe it's different in your group, but if the enemy is carrying a weapon that is better than what the Acolytes have, and it is reasonable that they might use it after defeating their foe, I would expect them to grab it after the fight under the reasoning: "It makes it easier to kill Heretics."

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