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Seiito

Playing the Scout

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I don't have an issue with the idea of generalist vs. specialist either.  Just glance through all the other specializations, combat or otherwise, it's readily apparent that all of them, to include Fringer, have talents that complement their bonus skills.  Any specialization could just grab skills to go with stats and be just as jack of all trades.

 

You're moving the goal posts, here.

 

If it's open season on non-career skills, then the Scout has skill ranks to match every talent in his tree.

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I'm not moving anything, my point still is the Scout is designed poorly.  Every other specialization's skills and talents have something to do with one another.  A majority of a Scout's are essentially combat or stealth oriented.   That's been my one and only point in this conversation.

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Well Rounded would allow some good customisation, and should be a requirement for all these 'I learned my abilities from a hobo living under a bridge' characters. 

 

Must admit I'm often baffled by some talents like Familiar Suns or Museum Worthy that don't actually seem to offer anything beyond what you could do with a standard skill roll.  It's like having a talent that allows a Hired Gun to shoot at the enemy with his gun.  What am I missing here?

Edited by Maelora

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The Explorer/Scout offers poor synergies.   The Spy/Scout is actually pretty good, if you have AoE.  It actually adds something to a career with decent core skills.

 

Going back to Sasha in the Beginner's Game, I'd make her (or a character like her) an Explorer/BGH or a Spy/Scout.

Edited by Maelora

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2P51 - The thing is this is your opinion. I get your argument and opinion, but giving Career specialization Talents that don't reflect Skills and vice-versa are common in many of the Specializations. Doctors get Anatomy Lessons and Pressure Point, but no Brawl Skill; they get these talents to allow them to add to combat, however, they aren't trained combatants. But there's no issue with the Doctor because they fit the role of healer. They get combat talents, without the combat skill... Slicers get Stealth, Knowledge (Education), Knowledge (Underworld) as a Specialization Career Skills, but not a single Talent that amplifies any. Outlaw Techs can modify the hell out of Weapons, Armor and Vehicles, but they can't Pilot, and don't have combat skills.. So everyone should just be a Gadgeteer because the Gadgeteer can modify weapons and armor, as well as vessels, but they get fly and combat related career skills... Why do Bodyguards have Pilot (Planet) and no Talents involving Piloting AT ALL? Assassins get Melee as a career skill, but all their Talents are more tailored to Range (Heavy)? Why does the Marauder get Survival as a career skill? They don't get talents for it... These are just a handful of examples...

 

It's not just the Scout that has Talents and Skills that don't 'compliment' with each other. The Explorer and the Smuggler are both Hybrids; Smugglers are generally more combat oriented and Explorers are more support oriented. Both have skills and talents that deal with Combat and Support. Just because a Scout can disorient, with a proficiency dice, doesn't mean that those talent's don't benefit what a scout can do. If a Scout has high agility and get's in over its head, he's perfectly capable of getting out of that situation and back to his group by activating a disorient that doesn't need a weapon mod - I really don't see why this is an issue, or difficult with the amount of boost dice a scout can get. As I said before, it's a little much to get 4 boost die against an enemy that hasn't attacked yet and disorient without a weapon attachment, as well as gain proficiency dice as career skills would see almost everyone flocking to scout. Also, Stealth is based off the agility pool, so again, you gain two boost dice to Stealth rolls, that's pretty impressive. Two other specializations gain 2+ boost dice on stealth rolls, Assassin and Survivalist, and both are combat classes. You get this bonus as a non-combat class (the only non-combat class to gain that boost).

 

Don't underestimate boost dice. You CAN always train on-career skills into proficiency dice, you CAN'T gain natural boost dice unless you've got that talent.

 

Maelora - I think a lot of what your saying makes sense. From what your saying consistently is you'd like to see the Explorer class be less 'hybrid' and more defined as tree, which is fine in your case. If you want to see more of a Spy/Scout, I think you've found your answer with what you like. This scout is definitely not that and I'm not arguing that it is; this is more a 'boyscout' as I've said :). I'm not necessarily sure about 'poor synergies' - the two issues many people have are Stealth and Combat, but Explorer's aren't combatants, they have the skills for if they are forced into combat.

 

They don't have Stealth as a career skill, but neither do Survivalists. Only three Specializations get Stealth as a career skill, Assassin, Thief and Slicer. Assassin is THE stealth class, Thief only get 3 Stealth Talents and Slicer gets none... Survivalist and Scout get Stealth Talents, but no Skill (that doesn't mean they can't train it).

 

You've got 3 Careers that lean toward combat and 3 that don't; Explorer is the beefiest of the non-combat Careers, so I see no problem with them having Combat talents, with no skill. But they are primarily a Perception/Vigilance/Knowledge Class. It's like if you're the type of player that say, "I like Scholar, but I want to be viable in an encounter IF I can't avoid fighting". I see nothing wrong with this concept. If that's not the play-style your interested in pursuing, that's fine, play something else. But, it's your opinion if you disagree with how the class is put together, which is perfectly fine. But when players that play Scouts are demonstrating how the class is viable, and how to use it's skill, telling them they're wrong, the specialization doesn't make sense and players are better suited playing another Specialization is kinda messed up; the OP is wondering how to get more out of his class, not asking what he should've picked or why his (and other Scout's) choices are wrong.

Edited by MosesofWar

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2P51 - The thing is this is your opinion. I get your argument and opinion, but giving Career specialization Talents that don't reflect Skills and vice-versa are common in many of the Specializations. Doctors get Anatomy Lessons and Pressure Point, but no Brawl Skill; they get these talents to allow them to add to combat, however, they aren't trained combatants. But there's no issue with the Doctor because they fit the role of healer. 

Your example of doctor is a poor one you realize?  Pressure point particularly.  It boosts damage by the ranks a Dr. has in Medicine skill, so not only is it directly related to a bonus career skill, it is hands down the single most powerful talent in the game.  Anatomy lesson lets them boost damage based on their Intellect, which is a stat directly related to their specialization and critical to their Medicine skill.

 

In addition, 12 of their 20 talents are directly related to Medicine.

 

This isn't my opinion, feel free to browse the other specializations in EoE and it is quickly apparent that Scout stands out as the one whose skills and talents have the least to do with one another, not just from a mechanical perspective, but a narrative one as well.  A BH Survivalist is more useful in a first contact situation than a Scout.

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I kind of see why Pressure Point is in Doctor, who don't have Brawl as a skill.  It gives an edge to an essentially-non-combat character in a pinch.  Putting it in the Marauder tree would be overpowered.

 

But the Fringer won't get ANY mileage out of Knockdown without melee skill.  

Edited by Maelora

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If I were to tweak pressure point it would be that it can't bypass armor soak and would require the attacker to make an Aim check to target a specific "point" which would introduce the corresponding setback dice.  That would then require the player to invest some attention into Brawl/Brawn to be any good with it.  It's way too OP as it is.

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2P51 - The thing is this is your opinion. I get your argument and opinion, but giving Career specialization Talents that don't reflect Skills and vice-versa are common in many of the Specializations. Doctors get Anatomy Lessons and Pressure Point, but no Brawl Skill; they get these talents to allow them to add to combat, however, they aren't trained combatants. But there's no issue with the Doctor because they fit the role of healer. 

Your example of doctor is a poor one you realize?  Pressure point particularly.  It boosts damage by the ranks a Dr. has in Medicine skill, so not only is it directly related to a bonus career skill, it is hands down the single most powerful talent in the game.  Anatomy lesson lets them boost damage based on their Intellect, which is a stat directly related to their specialization and critical to their Medicine skill.

 

In addition, 12 of their 20 talents are directly related to Medicine.

 

This isn't my opinion, feel free to browse the other specializations in EoE and it is quickly apparent that Scout stands out as the one whose skills and talents have the least to do with one another, not just from a mechanical perspective, but a narrative one as well.  A BH Survivalist is more useful in a first contact situation than a Scout.

 

 

You're argument is an opinion dude - you just said it's okay for a Doctor to have skills that boost his brawl damage, without having Brawl as a Career Skill and it's not okay for a Scout to get Boost dice for attacks because it doesn't have combat skills. The way you envision a class and how it interacts is entirely your own personal opinion. And, for you, you've got an idea of what works and what doesn't based on your own personal opinion.- you're praising one specialization for something, that you're criticizing another for. And the Doctor is a specialist, not a hybrid or generalist. I see how the Scout fits into a game, you can't. That's not a big deal at all, and I have a solution for you: Don't play as a Scout. It's that simply - you don't like the Specialization and no one is telling you you have to like this Specialization. But, telling people that like the Specialization, or see viability in the Specialization, that their thoughts, ideas and demonstration of how the Specialization can be used are incorrect, isn't exactly being helpful to the OP.

 

I kind of see why Pressure Point is in Doctor, who don't have Brawl as a skill.  It gives an edge to an essentially-non-combat character in a pinch.  Putting it in the Marauder tree would be overpowered.

 

But the Fringer won't get ANY mileage out of Knockdown without melee skill.  

 

I 100% agree with that - I don't understand why the Dev's would put Knockdown, which requires a Triumph, in a Specialization that doesn't get combat as a Career Skill. But yes, the point you just made about giving the Doctor Pressure point is the exact point I'm trying to make with Scout, which is ALSO a non-combatant. Giving Quickstrike and Disorient gives, what isn't a Combat Specialization, in the CRB, a viable option in Combat. Just instead of +Damage, the Scout gets +Boost Dice and the ability to activate a Weapon Quality, without having to use a Hardpoint. The difference: people tend to take notice of +damage, not the fact the Scout can get +4 Boost Dice against opponents that haven't acted yet, and trigger Disorient for two round, IN ADDITION TO any weapon qualities they have as well as critical hits.

Edited by MosesofWar

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2P51 - The thing is this is your opinion. I get your argument and opinion, but giving Career specialization Talents that don't reflect Skills and vice-versa are common in many of the Specializations. Doctors get Anatomy Lessons and Pressure Point, but no Brawl Skill; they get these talents to allow them to add to combat, however, they aren't trained combatants. But there's no issue with the Doctor because they fit the role of healer. They get combat talents, without the combat skill... Slicers get Stealth, Knowledge (Education), Knowledge (Underworld) as a Specialization Career Skills, but not a single Talent that amplifies any. Outlaw Techs can modify the hell out of Weapons, Armor and Vehicles, but they can't Pilot, and don't have combat skills.. So everyone should just be a Gadgeteer because the Gadgeteer can modify weapons and armor, as well as vessels, but they get fly and combat related career skills... Why do Bodyguards have Pilot (Planet) and no Talents involving Piloting AT ALL? Assassins get Melee as a career skill, but all their Talents are more tailored to Range (Heavy)? Why does the Marauder get Survival as a career skill? They don't get talents for it... These are just a handful of examples...

Those aren't exactly reasonable comparisons.

Doctor has a lot of talents related to Medicine and Pressure Point/Anatomy Lessons are based on Medicine/Intellect. Almost every talent in that tree is tied back to the core of the Doctor specialization.

Slicers get a lot of talents that tie back into that hacker concept. While the talents focus on Computers, they really focus tightly on that one thing. The talents are linked to the core concept.

Outlaw Techs talents relate to the core of those skills. Known Schematic, Inventor, Jury Rigged are all related to the type of character this tree is about.

Bodyguards get a defining talent "Bodyguard" along with a bunch of defensive talents to be a tough guy

 

While every skill isn't touched in the talents, the talents relate to a sort of core concept.

 

The difference with the Scout is that Athletics, Medicine, Piloting, Survival are not nearly as integrated into the Scout tree. Only Survival gets touched a single time with Forager. Which is a pretty modest talent and probably doesn't come up too often in most games. For my tastes, throw in Swift, Well Rounded, and some sort of 15-25XP talent based on either Survival or Athletics and you've got a solid Scout. Would still be pretty generalized, but would give the Scout something that defines the specialization. Which is something it's seriously lacking as written.

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I actually never said anything that you posted.  I pointed out the talent you selected, being Pressure Point, uses a Brawl check, but it is directly boosted by one of a Dr.s bonus career skills, that being Medicine.  That dovetails into the rest of my main point which is talents being related to specialization.  I did say a Scout's talents and bonus career skills have virtually nothing to do with one another, that's also not an opinion, that's a pretty clear fact I pointed out with examples.

 

Clearly you're getting upset and I will simply end this by saying something else I already said, which is I would never tell anyone how to play their character.

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I imagined Knockdown was intended for emergency situations where you have to, say, hit a guy with your rifle to get away.

 

I believe that this is the concept, but when the Specialization of Fringer doesn't get any combat skills, it's impossible to roll a Triumph without taking non-career skills, or rolling a Human and choosing a combat skill as one of your free skills at char-gen. It's basically saying: You've got to spend additional XP to receive the full benefit of this Talent, which is the only Specialization to require it, basically showing Fringer as a multi-class Specialization. Marauder get's this, but it's a little less useless for them, since they get combat skills as career skills.

 

 

Those aren't exactly reasonable comparisons.

Doctor has a lot of talents related to Medicine and Pressure Point/Anatomy Lessons are based on Medicine/Intellect. Almost every talent in that tree is tied back to the core of the Doctor specialization.

Slicers get a lot of talents that tie back into that hacker concept. While the talents focus on Computers, they really focus tightly on that one thing. The talents are linked to the core concept.

Outlaw Techs talents relate to the core of those skills. Known Schematic, Inventor, Jury Rigged are all related to the type of character this tree is about.

Bodyguards get a defining talent "Bodyguard" along with a bunch of defensive talents to be a tough guy

 

While every skill isn't touched in the talents, the talents relate to a sort of core concept.

 

The difference with the Scout is that Athletics, Medicine, Piloting, Survival are not nearly as integrated into the Scout tree. Only Survival gets touched a single time with Forager. Which is a pretty modest talent and probably doesn't come up too often in most games. For my tastes, throw in Swift, Well Rounded, and some sort of 15-25XP talent based on either Survival or Athletics and you've got a solid Scout. Would still be pretty generalized, but would give the Scout something that defines the specialization. Which is something it's seriously lacking as written.

 

 

I believe they are reasonable comparisons; the criticism here are that the Scout gets Talents that don't support the Skills they have and don't have Skills that support their Talents. The mention of Pressure Points is because they require the Brawl Skill to be activated - even though they get bonuses from Medicine and Intellect, they still require the Brawl Skill to activate. One of the arguments by most of the people here saying the scout is a jumbled specialization is the fact they have combat talents, but no combat skills. This is a similar example, but it's deemed okay because its considered 'overpowered' or it uses Medicine/Intellect and those are career skills. I see what your saying, but my statement is these are talents, directly to an action that is tied to a skill that isn't a career skill. So, why is okay for Doctor to have this, but not okay for the Scout to have quick Strike and Disorient?

 

Also, you're all correct with the Dr.'s Skills and Talents supporting 'Medicine', and while he has career skills that don't have Talents tied with them (Cool, Resilience, Knowledge (Education) - I won't list the Colonist general skills), they support his actions. The same is true with the Scout, but being a Hybrid, the Scout has a couple of skills (Perception, Vigilance and Knowledge) with the rest of the skills supporting it's core group. It's not specialized, like many of Career Specs, but it allows the Scout to be the best at Perception/Vigilance as well as filling in other roles if necessary.

 

I really think that some of the skills you mentioned are actually viable for a Scout on ground and I think the Spy/Scout has more in common with that methodology. My belief is that the dev's designed the Scout with the Scout Trooper in mind - basically a futuristic Calvary Scout that's typically on a Speeder/Swoop (or animal). Basically, zoom in on a speeder, scan with macrobinocs, zoom out; run knowledge checks to gain boost dice for their group as well as setup/prevent ambushes.

 

One of the best things I think you mentioned is with the example for Forager - that use of that talent doesn't come up for most games. Like I've argued, I think that's the case for the whole Scout specialization (maybe Explorer in general)  - most games don't run scenarios that have a use for them. If you have no need to have a guy go down to a planet to check it out for dangers, or are operating in less civilized worlds where the team doesn't have maps and need someone to drive ahead and constantly relay information back to the group. The type of game oftentimes will dictate what becomes important skill/talent-wise.

 

 

 

I actually never said anything that you posted.  I pointed out the talent you selected, being Pressure Point, uses a Brawl check, but it is directly boosted by one of a Dr.s bonus career skills, that being Medicine.  That dovetails into the rest of my main point which is talents being related to specialization.  I did say a Scout's talents and bonus career skills have virtually nothing to do with one another, that's also not an opinion, that's a pretty clear fact I pointed out with examples.

 

 

Clearly you're getting upset and I will simply end this by saying something else I already said, which is I would never tell anyone how to play their character.

 

 

I'm simply stating that you're correct with some things your pointing out, but opinionated in others. Pointing out that Pressure Point relies on Medicine to deal extra damage ignores the fact that it requires Brawl to activate and Brawl isn't a career skill. If it was, it would make the skill vastly overpowered. The same is true with the Scout's Quick Strike and Disorient; the fact they can ratchet up their dice pool to +4 additional dice against targets that haven't acted AND hit them with a status effect tied to Brawling/Weapon Attachments for free is powerful - add on Proficiency Dice with Triumph rolls? Then you've got a game changer. Smuggler's can do this, but need to use Brawl or use an attachment for Disorient - they do more damage off the hit, but can't apply multiple status effects.

 

In addition, the entire tree is built up on using minor skills to support gathering information and using knowledge checks on that information. I don't see how you call it a 'fact' that the scout doesn't get Talents for it's Specialization Career skills; the ONLY skill that the Scout doesn't have a Talent for is Medicine. Where does a Doctor have a Talent for cool, Resilience or Knowledge (Eduction)? Athletics AND Piloting (Planet) are both effected by Shortcut (chases on foot or in a vehicle). Let's Ride also ties directly to Piloting (Planet). They get Forager for survival, which not only reduces setbacks on survival checks for what's listed, but also halves the time which can be used in narrative. Scouts get medicine in case they run in to any troubles on the planet's surface while gathering information. I think one thing that my be confusing is that Scouts should be using mounts - if they don't then they become a little less effective. And when you're comparing a specialist class to a generalist or hybrid, there needs to be a understanding that yes, the specialist is going to be able to do what it specializes in more effectively than the generalist or the hybrid, but the generalist or hybrid is able to do other things; is the Survivalist better at combat/Survival than the Scout? Yes, absolutely and I've said if that;s how you want to play, you should choose that specialization - but the Scout is much better with Perception, Vigilance and Mobility.

 

The reason I made mentioned of opinions here 2P51 isn't because I'm upset - it's because you entered a thread, with the OP asking how to make their Scout better, or how to utilize it, which are common questions considering how the Scout is misunderstood. When people are giving him answers to those questions, and you insert your opinion on the Scout class, it's not providing an answer to what the OP is asking. It's fine to have an opinion on the class, but saying I would never tell someone how to play their character, BUT the Scout doesn't make sense/is inferior because it isn't built the same as Specialist classes and you're better off playing a Specialist class, is telling someone how to play their character (and really defeats the purpose of this thread).

Edited by MosesofWar

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I imagined Knockdown was intended for emergency situations where you have to, say, hit a guy with your rifle to get away.

 

I agree, but as Moses said, you need a yellow dice to do that.

 

Also, thanks to everyone for keeping a heated debate civil. It's appreciated. 

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I imagined Knockdown was intended for emergency situations where you have to, say, hit a guy with your rifle to get away.

 

I agree, but as Moses said, you need a yellow dice to do that.

 

Also, thanks to everyone for keeping a heated debate civil. It's appreciated. 

 

 

I'll echo Maelora's appreciation on that. Even though few minds are getting changed on the matter, it's been a nice exercise to think critically about character builds.

 

Regarding Knockdown, I have a feeling it has to do with incentivizing 1 or 2 ranks in Melee, but no more. If a Fringer or an Archeologist picks up the talent, they'll probably buy enough ranks in Melee to use it, but they won't typically invest in becoming world class swordfighters, which a career skill might invite.

 

That might be the same reasoning behind Scout-Stealth. There's enough there to tempt a couple non-career ranks, but not enough to make him as ninja-like as the thief or assassin.

 

[\ speculation]

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I believe they are reasonable comparisons; the criticism here are that the Scout gets Talents that don't support the Skills they have and don't have Skills that support their Talents. The mention of Pressure Points is because they require the Brawl Skill to be activated - even though they get bonuses from Medicine and Intellect, they still require the Brawl Skill to activate. One of the arguments by most of the people here saying the scout is a jumbled specialization is the fact they have combat talents, but no combat skills. This is a similar example, but it's deemed okay because its considered 'overpowered' or it uses Medicine/Intellect and those are career skills. I see what your saying, but my statement is these are talents, directly to an action that is tied to a skill that isn't a career skill. So, why is okay for Doctor to have this, but not okay for the Scout to have quick Strike and Disorient?

 

Also, you're all correct with the Dr.'s Skills and Talents supporting 'Medicine', and while he has career skills that don't have Talents tied with them (Cool, Resilience, Knowledge (Education) - I won't list the Colonist general skills), they support his actions. The same is true with the Scout, but being a Hybrid, the Scout has a couple of skills (Perception, Vigilance and Knowledge) with the rest of the skills supporting it's core group. It's not specialized, like many of Career Specs, but it allows the Scout to be the best at Perception/Vigilance as well as filling in other roles if necessary.

I didn't say anything in bold. I think it's fine that the Scout lacks combat skills. I think it's okay for the Scout to have Quick Strike and Disorient. In fact, when originally entering the discussion I stated that Disorient was pretty good and paired well with Quick Strike. 

 

My problem with Scout is that it's a specialization that isn't specialized in any way (even if that's to be generalized). Every other specialization has something that sort of defines it. Talents that make the specialization stand out and typically related one or two of the skills associated with that specialization. The Scout lacks this. The Scout does not have a talent or set of talents that define "Scouting".

If the Scout is a generalist, why exclude Well Rounded from the specialization? Isn't that the ultimate generalist talent? It'd be a great boon for any Scout looking to pick up some skills to round out a group or provide some support. 

If it's a support build why only one talent to support allies?

 

Underlined text: The Scout only has Perception in the Career skills (no Vigilance). And the generalization of the Scout doesn't allow the character to be the best at anything (including Per/Vig). 

Edited by Dbuntu

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Dbutu - you're correct with Vigilance, I meant to point at the fact they've got the best talents at vigilance, but I was typing in haste. And I wasn't directing the bold statement at you, just pointing out that was a gripe with the specialization, and why I was making a reference to pressure points and the doctor. I think you also kinda nailed the Scout with what you said, they can't reall. Be the best at Perception because they really are a generalist.

They are however very good at Perception and aiding the group for the best rolls for initiative (one type of support) and really can shine with Knowledge checks for preparation and finding weaknesses. They help their group with bringing that information back to he group so the group can prepare accordingly (much like a scholar should function without meta gaming, but dealing more with flora and fauna than books and artifacts). I agree, giving them well rounded would be a nice bonus..

The big thing is the Focus of the specialization if you will is mobility, surveying and returning alive. The skillset I think the Devs put in place to reflect that concept. I still don't think they envisioned this specialization to be much of a military style scout, but I don't see you arguments of adding the swift talent and well rounded talent.. Maybe we should ask the Devs how exactly they envisioned the Explorer Scout... That answer a lot of questions, and give Selito ideas to aid his build.

EDIT. I started thinking of advanced Calvary scouts, and other than scout troopers, I honk my closest reference , albeit a poor one, are vultures from Starcraft. I imagine scouts to be something akin to that, fast intel gatherers. You don't really using them for much else than that and spider mines. So vultures that can do a little healing, setup camps and pinpoint weak points... :P

Edited by MosesofWar

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The big thing is the Focus of the specialization if you will is mobility, surveying and returning alive. The skillset I think the Devs put in place to reflect that concept.

I think we will just have to disagree about that. And it's sort of the crux of the debate.

Returning more to Seiito's topic: It's a fine spec to have if you've got something else. I think there are plenty of utility talents that can be a nice pick up for other classes. I found that the left side of the tree is really useful in Strain management. So when I was Bodyguarding for multiple rounds, having extra Strain and being able to recover more was definitely a good investment. However, I don't think the Scout is a particularly effective specialization without some amount of cross specialization or buying out of career.

I think the FSE is a great choice if you want to cross spec because you'll get boosts to Perception and Vigilance. You also won't need combat skills if you invest into the Move power.

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Sorry Seiito - didn't mean to mispell your name so much!

 

 

The big thing is the Focus of the specialization if you will is mobility, surveying and returning alive. The skillset I think the Devs put in place to reflect that concept.

I think we will just have to disagree about that. And it's sort of the crux of the debate.

 

 

No problem. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We've both given him ideas for the build and our thoughts on how to incorporate Scouts in different ways.

 

Sorry for being blunt with a lot of these posts. I just find it frustrating when a player in a community asks the community for help, or ideas of how to play a specialization they chose and when members give out ideas for different styles of play, other members enter the the discussion and give their opinion why no one should play the specialization as if somehow the choice of the player is wrong. It happens everywhere, and it's really just disheartening. There are forums to voice grievances about specialization and what could be added/taken away from the Career (Maelora started one specifically about the Explorer Career in general). It doesn't have anything to do with the OP's original question, or 'playing the scout' it just fuels an unnecessary nitpick cycle that provides no true benefit to the OP and really doesn't help anyone out at all, other than add to frustration.

 

Dbuntu - this isn't directed at you because, while we disagree with how to use the Scout, you have given ways to create an effective Scout build and add insight and perspective for the OP.

 

Seiito, I guess the main question comes down to how exactly your looking to play your Scout, because obviously there are multiple viewpoints.It seems like, from what you just said, the campaigns you run take place in rather familiar areas, not necessarily unexplored worlds - this kinda negates many of the Scouts abilities, but sometimes it's necessary to make adaptions in your build as you did with FSE. The Spy/Scout from AoR, as Maelora said would definitely play more toward the style that your pursuing with your PC. As Dbuntu said, and I echo, FSE Sense and Move are the best ways to go - I don't think you need influence. Sense obviously boosts your ability to find 'things' and move, along with your Piloting (Planet) / Let's Ride and Shortcut will make you a mobility master (except in space as a pilot or individual).

 

Two other suggestions that I have for you is, that if you want to enhance your stealthiness in urban areas, I'd recommend buying into the Assassin Specialization as it adds more of the sneakiness as well as the ability to move ahead quickly, stay at long range without being seen. Point out weakness and use the various offensive talents that an Assassin to pick off targets (think Scout sniper) with additional bonuses. On the flip side, if you want to add more utility and support to your group, you may want to add in Mercenary Soldier; Mercenary Soldier will give you the ability to add in a bunch of group related buffs (Field Commander, Command) active on your group in addition to Heightened Awareness, as well as add in combat skills; your group will have excellent Discipline, Perception, Vigilance and slightly better strain management.

 

I wouldn't recommend investing in Familiar Suns, or Forager if your operating in mostly urban environments as your XP is better spent elsewhere, but as Dbuntu said, Rapid Recovery is one of the best things about the Explorer career; I'll add Stalker, Heightened Awareness, Let's Ride and there entire right side are excellent pick-ups. Skill wise, you definitely want Perception/Atheletics (both Career skills), you'll want Cool for personal Initiative and if you can find a way to get Vigilance I'd recommend that as well. For Knowledge skills, I'd do Xeneology > Outer Rim > Core Worlds; Xeneology will help with point out weaknesses on enemies, and also can aid in medicine checks. World knowledge is nice, but if you're going to known worlds, it become less effective...

Edited by MosesofWar

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Really the Scout in the party I DM has been pretty much vital to the success so far and is actually the only player who fits into her own little niche. She has been relied upon to keep them alive through jungles, find food, Xeno checks, Perception checks, perched with a model 38 using her abilities and even very helpful in foot chases. Every other PC in the party has skills that overlap with someone else except for the Scout. Besides the Doctor she is really pretty vital to the overall success of the party.

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Really the Scout in the party I DM has been pretty much vital to the success so far and is actually the only player who fits into her own little niche. She has been relied upon to keep them alive through jungles, find food, Xeno checks, Perception checks, perched with a model 38 using her abilities and even very helpful in foot chases. Every other PC in the party has skills that overlap with someone else except for the Scout. Besides the Doctor she is really pretty vital to the overall success of the party.

What is the scout doing that they're helping out the group so much?

 

Is it because the scout is actually good at the thing, or is it because the rest of the party (perhaps to give him some room) made themselves intentionally terrible at what he does?

 

Would he be notably better at the things on that list if he were a Survivalist, a Big Game Hunter, a Spy/Scout, or another specialization?

 

(Not saying you're wrong, just looking to get more information. These past couple threads on the explorer have had me wondering if the majority of the explorer career could seriously benefit from a fan-made complete redesign. I'm interested in hearing the other side of the story. What the scout brings to the table that gives them some kind of niche.

 

This thread seems mostly a good list of what doesn't work for a scout, and some suggestions as to how to make good use of the scout in a multiclassed build; (with a few contested ideas about how it could be good as a core specialization) but I could definitely go for more information/another perspective saying how it could be used effectively as a primary career specialization.)

Edited by Sylrae

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Really the Scout in the party I DM has been pretty much vital to the success so far and is actually the only player who fits into her own little niche. She has been relied upon to keep them alive through jungles, find food, Xeno checks, Perception checks, perched with a model 38 using her abilities and even very helpful in foot chases. Every other PC in the party has skills that overlap with someone else except for the Scout. Besides the Doctor she is really pretty vital to the overall success of the party.

What is the scout doing that they're helping out the group so much?

 

Is it because the scout is actually good at the thing, or is it because the rest of the party (perhaps to give him some room) made themselves intentionally terrible at what he does?

 

Would he be notably better at the things on that list if he were a Survivalist, a Big Game Hunter, a Spy/Scout, or another specialization?

 

(Not saying you're wrong, just looking to get more information. These past couple threads on the explorer have had me wondering if the majority of the explorer career could seriously benefit from a fan-made complete redesign. I'm interested in hearing the other side of the story. What the scout brings to the table that gives them some kind of niche.

 

This thread seems mostly a good list of what doesn't work for a scout, and some suggestions as to how to make good use of the scout in a multiclassed build; (with a few contested ideas about how it could be good as a core specialization) but I could definitely go for more information/another perspective saying how it could be used effectively as a primary career specialization.)

 

She is great with Perception and Survival, and several of the talents have proved useful as well. Stalker, Shortcut, Forager, Quick Strike (Usually with a Model 38), Natural Hunter, Utility Belt and even Familiar Suns has been important. Athletics and Shortcut are important together for the many chases that I've had in my games as well. A few members of the group have Perception, but not near as highly trained. Honestly, most of the rest of the group is combat oriented and with her Sniper Rifle she is effective at that as well. 

 

A Survivalist would come close, but there are a few differences like Rapid Recovery (Proved useful several times), Quick Strike and Shortcut that would be missed (Even if on paper they seem like they wouldn't) The Knowledge checks though that come with Explorer have also been used time and time again and unfortunately the rest of the party doesn't cover any of that along with Astrogation. So a Survivalist would have much of the same, but still lacking some things that actually get used. Her next goal is to splash in and spread into BGH which is cheaper since its still in her class.

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