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Lok Hambrock

Aptitudes unbalanced?

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I do wish Tech-Use was split into a general skill for operating simple devices, charging laspacks, etc. and into a Tech-Priest skill which covers their knowledge they keep secret.

 

Like Common/Forbidden Lore (Technology/Adeptus Mechanicus/Archeotech)? 

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Yes...and no. It exists, but no one ever uses it as such and most careers never got access to it before (though now with General aptitude and Intelligence, it finally can fill the role it always should have had, one shared with trade: armourer for weapon mods)

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I agree with AtoMaki, the special Tech Priest knowledge should be covered by Common Lore & Forbidden Lore.

 

As for the use of Tech Use... I guess it depends on the GM also. We roll Tech-Use for make-shift repairs, for using tech (duh) like Auspex scanners and the like, so I think it still has a lot of the actual Use in the skill.

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Isn't this part of the general reduction in number of skills?

 

(Wich BTW I think occured due to the Aptitude system itself in Black Crusade -- albeit it is the Alignment system there, but functionally the same thing -- not because reduction of skills actually makes more sense conceptully itself, which it doesn't.)

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Well, in DH, it got ridiculous at times, you had Silent Move, Shadowing and Concealment all covering the same field of Stealth, Swim and Climb as two separate physical skills and so on. Which even with DH costs being cheaper, got a bit ridiculous because several careers didn't have access to a lot of the "basics", My issue is that the aptitude system IS unbalanced in a lot of ways, look at Fellowship VS Social for a good comparison. Some of them are just "better" While others (like Tech), are either useless or only useful to a small minority.

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Yeah, but I think every system needs to make a choice between a lot of cheap skills or fewer, somewhat more expensive ones. I like when fewer skills means a good default, but that doesn't have to be the case. 

GURPS goes for a lot of skills, and you can get, depending on the skill, a  50% chance of success for 1-4 points, where 3-4 is the reward for one session.

D&D had a lot, but they tended to be very expensive, which I personally think is a flaw on D&D. 

FATE Core has few, and almost everyone has everyone. That goes with a certain style of play, but works quite well in it.

DH and OW, which I know best, are spmewhere in an awkward middle: Too many for the 'few skills' style, too expensive for 'lots of skills', although they have being trying to fix both...

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Yes, yes they are Bogi. Which is why I said they were separate, the issue is that not everyone could get them and to be proficient at it, you had to spend a lot of XP (because separate skills). The change to a flat "Stealth" skill and "Athletics" are one of the better changes to the system regarding skills.

 

And Myrion, I think you hit the nail on the head. Though a couple skills should be broken back up, like Literacy.

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Yes, yes they are Bogi. Which is why I said they were separate, the issue is that not everyone could get them and to be proficient at it, you had to spend a lot of XP (because separate skills). The change to a flat "Stealth" skill and "Athletics" are one of the better changes to the system regarding skills.

 

And Myrion, I think you hit the nail on the head. Though a couple skills should be broken back up, like Literacy.

 

Well I do not agree, and my word is law! :)

 

There is no reason for somebody from the Climbing Tribes of the Mountain Planet of Himala to know how to swim at all, but he probably kicks ass at climbing.

 

Come to think of it, void born and hive born probably have never seen a large body of water at all.

Edited by bogi_khaosa

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That's why we have difficulty modifiers! The guy with Athletics but no justification for swimming expertise will get a -30 penalty while those who know how to swim will take the test with +0. A Challenging task for one but a Very Hard to another!

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You absolutely could, and it would work quite well!
It might not be what you intend for this game, but that's another matter...

Right now, the skills are such that knowledgeable characters get penalized, because there's so many lores they need to buy and because other essential skills are very expensive to them. Similarly, my OW Sergeant has a hard time learning tactics (and it seems like a fairly useless skill to boot) or Dodging. I don't feel that I can just pick up a Trade skill, even though it would fit the character's background.

So merging a few skills is one way of solving the problems with the current skill system: Fewer things to buy means it's less of a problem if you can't afford them all and there's no temptation of taking background skills that would likely only be handy once or twice.

Alternatively, make skills cheaper; at least for the first point. Level, whatever. (Shhh, GURPS-part of my brain.) Actually, no, here's an example from GURPS:
In the campaign I currently GM, the characters started with 70+35 Points (+35 in disadvantages; most did not use this nearly to full) which is quite low for GURPS, although not incompetent:

Competent (50-75 points): Athletes, cops, wealthy gentry . . . anyone who would have a clear edge over “average” people on an adventure.

They still had points for things like Musical Instrument (Violin), Riding and Hazardous Materials, despite the campaign starting in the modern world and it being unlikely that they would have to handle HazMat...

That's because GURPS has skills for everything, and makes it easy to get them. This allows for very broad characters, and many different character concepts. All human warriors from Megalos will be different, because there's so much customization available. They might not all be as effective in combat, but that's not the only measure of a character's competency.

Here, I think, they will be much more the same, much less varied, because there are skills that are just too expensive to simply pick up because they look interesting. Yet there are still all these skills, suggesting that you should take them to round out your character...

Edited by Myrion

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Similarly, my OW Sergeant has a hard time learning tactics (and it seems like a fairly useless skill to boot) or Dodging. I don't feel that I can just pick up a Trade skill, even though it would fit the character's background.

Tactics, sure, but Dodge?

You have the defence aptitude (as a sarge), which makes it as cheap for you as for anyone!

Dodge is Agility/Defence, which IIRC nobody has (without doctrines etc), so the best you can do is a single aptitude pricing.

Edited by Tenebrae

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