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FangGrip

Dangerous Covenants Signature Abilities

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I have to say I am not a fan of the direction that FFG is giving to character evolution. I don't like this "awesome characters" which I think they are more in line with the Naruto cartoons than with Star Wars.

 

Yet, it is still a great game, just I will keep it on a more low profile level for PCs (and NPCs).

 

In fairness, the Hired Gun along with the Bounty hunter are the quintessential combat-oriented careers in EotE. I suspect the signature abilities for the other careers will be quite a bit more subdued.

 

The ability to clear out any number(?) of minions from an encounter seems rather overpowered to me, but that could be because I make heavy use of minions.

 

Well when you compare Explorer:-

 

Get one extra manouvre

 

Hired Gun

 

KILL EVERYTHING! (when upgraded, 1 or 2 rivals)

 

I mean, it may be better if it is kill everything, within one range band (i.e., melee only killing all in close, with a blaster everything in medium, with a rifle everything at long range) otherwise it REALLY overshadows the gain an extra manouvre as the Hired Gun will be getting loads of extra manouvres to count for changing range bands to shoot ot hit.

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I was not trying to rise a criticism on the signature abilities. Well, actually I don't care too much if they are overpowered, not balanced or whatever. I trust the guys developing the line, so far they have done a good job. It is just things like these don't fit in my vision of Star Wars. I guy walking in and cleaning a whole mob of Imperial Stormtroopers? Chuck Norris style? No thanks. I rather give another flavour to my games, like when Han Solo and Luke spot 5 Stormtroopers and decide the better action is to hide.

 

The good thing about this game (well others too) is that you can pick up some of its features, the ones you like. One does not need to use them all to run this excellent game. So no conflict here for anybody. You like full awesomeness? Pick up your 10 soak character, give him a light repeater blaster, buy some of these signature abilities and start putting down Imperials while their blaster rifle shots bounce off from you. You like a more low profile game? You just have to left aside some aspects (talents, equipment...) from the game and there you go! Everybody happy!

Edited by Yepesnopes

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Well, I wouldn't imagine a battle in EotE containing more than a few minions at a time.... At the very least I wouldn't expect it to have loads of minions.

Either that or it would be a real battle heavy session and we don't really play those anyway. Plus, there is always the second ability if the first one doesn't sit well with the player.

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I was not trying to rise a criticism on the signature abilities. Well, actually I don't care too much if they are overpowered, not balanced or whatever. I trust the guys developing the line, so far they have done a good job. It is just things like these don't fit in my vision of Star Wars. I guy walking in and cleaning a whole mob of Imperial Stormtroopers? Chuck Norris style? No thanks. I rather give another flavour to my games, like when Han Solo and Luke spot 5 Stormtroopers and decide the better action is to hide.

 

The good thing about this game (well others too) is that you can pick up some of its features, the ones you like. One does not need to use them all to run this excellent game. So no conflict here for anybody. You like full awesomeness? Pick up your 10 soak character, give him a light repeater blaster, buy some of these signature abilities and start putting down Imperials while their blaster rifle shots bounce off from you. You like a more low profile game? You just have to left aside some aspects (talents, equipment...) from the game and there you go! Everybody happy!

 

This is by no means an attack or anything, but.. you haven't read much of anything in the Expanded Universe have you? I know its all possibly being called into question, but this kind of thing is pretty common throughout Star Wars.

 

Luke was pretty **** confident when he walked into Jabba's palace. I view an ability like " Last man standing " as something like that. Also, its most likely limited to once per play session like the other signature abilities are.

 

So once per game session you get the chance to do something really cool.

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I have to say I am not a fan of the direction that FFG is giving to character evolution. I don't like this "awesome characters" which I think they are more in line with the Naruto cartoons than with Star Wars.

 

Yet, it is still a great game, just I will keep it on a more low profile level for PCs (and NPCs).

 

That's the great thing about how they did Signature Abilities... every group can choose if they want to allow them or not.  Really simple to add them or keep them out.

 

I will want to play with them before I make any decisions.  

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Luke was pretty **** confident when he walked into Jabba's palace.  I view an ability like "Last man standing" as something like that.  Also, its most likely limited to once per play session like the other signature abilities are.

 

I'm not sure I understand your example.  Luke doesn't mow down minions at that point (or even when he takes the barge, later).

 

If we're mechanic-ing that scene, he shows up, Force Chokes two bouncers, and flubs an Influence-enhanced Coercion roll against Jabba.  He then continues to an overly complicated plan B (as usually happens with PCs :D).  Nothing anyone without a current or mooted signature ability couldn't attempt or succeed at.

Edited by Col. Orange

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In regards to concerns about overpowered, I mean honestly, is a group of minions any challenge to a dual modded vibro sword wielding marauder that has progressed through the talent tree to the point they can even get this SA?  They're pretty much already a whirling vortex of razor sharp death to minions anyway.

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In regards to concerns about overpowered, I mean honestly, is a group of minions any challenge to a dual modded vibro sword wielding marauder that has progressed through the talent tree to the point they can even get this SA?  They're pretty much already a whirling vortex of razor sharp death to minions anyway.

 

Playing devil's advocate, I think the concern comes from the fact that a good number of multiple minion groups can still be challenging until their numbers are dwindled a bit.

 

That said, I believe it was mentioned earlier that there is a number of rounds the Hired Gun is essentially out of the fight after using the ability. So, in the case of the encounter involving waves of minions, only the current wave will be taken out by the Hired gun. If there are still rivals and/or a nemisis left, then the Hired Gun isn't able to help the rest of the group until he/she recovers. Depending on the group composition (for example, if the Hired Gun is the primary combatant for the group), this could put the group in a bit of bind.

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I have to say I am not a fan of the direction that FFG is giving to character evolution. I don't like this "awesome characters" which I think they are more in line with the Naruto cartoons than with Star Wars.

 

Yet, it is still a great game, just I will keep it on a more low profile level for PCs (and NPCs).

Nothing wrong with doing it your way.  It is a great game and I like the low power stuff as well.

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This is by no means an attack or anything, but.. you haven't read much of anything in the Expanded Universe have you? I know its all possibly being called into question, but this kind of thing is pretty common throughout Star Wars.

 

Truth be told, I have tried. I have read the Thrawn trilogy which I liked a lot. Then I keep on reading other books, like Allegiance, Coices of One...which were still ok, not great but still readable. Then I read Shadows of the Empire a big crap of a book. I went over fast through a few comics and then I decided the general quality of the EU was poor, it was nothing for me.

 

So, no, I don't know too much of the EU, but for a personal choice. For me the Star Wars universe is described by the movies and little else. We will see in the future if I like what disney does, but if I have to choose for my personal taste, I hope they do a big purge of the actual EU.

Edited by Yepesnopes

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Aside from the SAs I am as always more interested in the guns, both in the details, as well as, what qualities they will add to or expand on in the game.  The specializations seem more or less clear, I assume Heavy will be geared towards the obvious use of larger long range weapons, and I assume Demolitionist may be Saboteur appearing in the Hired Gun career.  Enforcer seems the most interesting, I assume some kind of Brawl/Range(L), social skills via Intimidate/Coercion.  Should be a good book I'd imagine.

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Not impressed with the signature abilties, i mean these are things that kinda already happen every combat anyway.

 

Our marauder already takes feck all damage, and our merc (and assassin) kills minions by the score.

 

Guess it would allow the marauder to minion sweep and the merc to tank tank hits better.

 

Personally i'm hoping for Gamorrean.

Edited by Plan b

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I'm curious what the new races will be. EtU added Chiss and Toydarians, and reprinted Duros. Any guesses as to what DC will add? I'd guess maybe Weequays or Nikto, they're know for being mercenaries, and Aqualish since they're known as thugs.

All good guesses...gungan maybe.  Jawa for the technician book,

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I strongly suspect Aqualish, they have featured several times in adventures as thugs and the cover model is one. Beyond that Gungans would let them bring in some of the cool Gungan weapons and shields, and the non-Jar Jar Gungans wee actually sort of cool.

My reaction to Last Man Standing is great, now I need more Stormtroopers.

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Dual wielding blaster pistols an walking out of the cantina...casually tossing a coin to the bar keep...."sorry bout the mess" ....oh yes.

 

  You could already do that.  Now however you've bound the GM's hands.  Rules that let you suggest something to the GM are good, rules that let the player force the GM on how the game plays out is bad design.  It is a player vs. GM rule and it is bad.

 

  Well so much for giving you a balanced encounter... hope you enjoyed sitting out for two rounds, as you do so another vehicle pulls up and a bunch of guys jump out of the back...

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Dual wielding blaster pistols an walking out of the cantina...casually tossing a coin to the bar keep...."sorry bout the mess" ....oh yes.

 

  You could already do that.  Now however you've bound the GM's hands.  Rules that let you suggest something to the GM are good, rules that let the player force the GM on how the game plays out is bad design.  It is a player vs. GM rule and it is bad.

 

  Well so much for giving you a balanced encounter... hope you enjoyed sitting out for two rounds, as you do so another vehicle pulls up and a bunch of guys jump out of the back...

 

Wow, someone's a grumpy gus.  

 

Any GM that has their hands bound by this one little once per session rule isn't a terribly imaginative GM imo.

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Dual wielding blaster pistols an walking out of the cantina...casually tossing a coin to the bar keep...."sorry bout the mess" ....oh yes.

 

  You could already do that.  Now however you've bound the GM's hands.  Rules that let you suggest something to the GM are good, rules that let the player force the GM on how the game plays out is bad design.  It is a player vs. GM rule and it is bad.

 

  Well so much for giving you a balanced encounter... hope you enjoyed sitting out for two rounds, as you do so another vehicle pulls up and a bunch of guys jump out of the back...

 

Wow, someone's a grumpy gus.  

 

Any GM that has their hands bound by this one little once per session rule isn't a terribly imaginative GM imo.

 

Not having seen the actual rules for the ability, I'm not sure exactly how it'll work out. However, it does sound as though it can easily spoil climactic final scenes. Imagine if, during one of the battles of the Clone Wars all of the battle droid or clone trooper minions were wiped out by just one guy... To me that's not epic, that's silly.

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Honestly I haven't seen the rules yet either but somehow I doubt they allow a character to violate all the other rules and laws of physics, like arc of fire, line of sight, range of weapons etc.

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Any GM who starts routinely having a fresh landspeeder full of minions show up just after my Hired Gun uses Last Man Standing will soon be short a player. I would walk away from that sort of nonsense.

Last One Standing used any time except the final minutes of a game session is a gamble that there won't be a situation in which it would be more useful yet to come...

Also remember that it doesn't take out Nemesis level opponents, nor many Rivals. Yes, it wipes out minions by the score, but a well prepared party will be doing that anyway.

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That's kind of my non worry about it.  Honestly by the time a player can reach SA level talents they are probably in a group of similar tenured players, so are minions even all that useful to a GM?  I would think most encounters are going to have to be built around rivals and nemeses to be any kind of real challenge anyway.

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