Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Beren Eoath

WFRP 4e - how should it look?

326 posts in this topic

@ Druchii

 

You are looking at cards the wrong way.

Cards serve the purpose of having the rules of an action "on hand" at any given time, rather than needing to refer to a book all the time. it also prevents needless over-complications for abilities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to see more cards in use. The biggest flaw IMHO is that so many interesting options is never included in actual game because players are limited to the few cards they buy during career advances. Lending itself to powergaming and the same combos of cards being used again and again.

 

I would really like a system where you gave a player a stack of cards if he picked up a 2 handed weapon, another stack when he was 1 handed and shield etc. And the same for social actions- 

 

Especial social actions i think is very frustrating, when having a player that actual have invested in a few cards there and then have to try to use them also in situation where they doesn't really fit. I mean 3 time in a game session a PC use big city bravado, it is no longer really a skill in use, but a character trait. After a few sessions it's just the same. Of cause you can use perform a stunt for really everything , but why not use all the material there is.

 

In battle a little recharge alternative could be in use aswell ,if you had a pool of 10 card to draw from. Randomly Draw 3 and they are the favorable actions the situation lend itself to. Want other ones, loose a dice, to draw a new hand (with or without shuffle). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think the card mechanic works tbh. I think it put my group off at first. "Cards.. wtf?" being the typical response.
But after a few game sessions and a friend making some card holders they work very well. As said above, trawling through books for the right ability/rules was always frustrating and usually ended up with the ability being hand written to the back of my character sheet.

GMmL likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If any of you are going to the Gen Con you may ask about this line, may be they will say something...  :D  

I had certainly considered it but my initial attempts to deal with housing and the realization that the thing has bloated into a line-standing festival kept me from taking the plunge. I love seeing the hobby grow but I believe the current location is beginning to buckle at the seams a bit. I will have to live vicariously through the twitter feeds of others and disappoint e-bayers by not buying their resell copies :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3rd edition has been dead for /at least/ 2 years already, even though the releases were drug out (especially TEW).

 

Hell, even the French and Germans can't get FFG to answer them to get stuff translated.  That means they really have abandoned this game, because for most game companies translations occur for many years afterwards.

 

It would be interesting to sit in on a meeting:

Game designer:  "People are still asking about WFRP.  What should we tell them sir?"

C: "What the hell is WFRP?  Ignore them."

GoblynKing and GMmL like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3rd edition has been dead for /at least/ 2 years already, even though the releases were drug out (especially TEW).

 

Hell, even the French and Germans can't get FFG to answer them to get stuff translated.  That means they really have abandoned this game, because for most game companies translations occur for many years afterwards.

 

It would be interesting to sit in on a meeting:

Game designer:  "People are still asking about WFRP.  What should we tell them sir?"

C: "What the hell is WFRP?  Ignore them."

 

My guess is they're either waiting for the license to run out so they can sell it off, OR they're planning a new edition and want to put a couple of years between the last release and said new edition to cut down on negative backlash. If there is a new edition on the horizon, it will most likely not contain anywhere as many components to cut down on production costs. This could either manifest itself in a parred down, Edge of the Empire style system with specialty dice (no cards), OR a throwback to the percentile system now used with the Warhammer 40k line of RPGs.

 

I for one would like ANY new material as I'm a sucker for that sorta thing, but am happy to wait and continue using the rules and components that I already own to run games.

 

That being said, IF a new 4th editon of WFRP is released by Fantasy Flight down the road, I'd prefer the core rules to come in one big hardcover tome (ala Pathfinder or Edge of the Empire) with the specialty dice (if any) sold seperately (ala EotE), and any cards sold in optional packs (ala EotE).

 

I was enamored at first with the "splat book" magazine style rulebooks of 3rd ed., but quickly became jaded due to the overt component and book bloat. That bing said, I'm familar enough with the rules now that I rarely need to reference a book, which helps.

Edited by GoblynKing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3rd edition has been dead for /at least/ 2 years already, even though the releases were drug out (especially TEW).

 

Hell, even the French and Germans can't get FFG to answer them to get stuff translated.  That means they really have abandoned this game, because for most game companies translations occur for many years afterwards.

 

It would be interesting to sit in on a meeting:

Game designer:  "People are still asking about WFRP.  What should we tell them sir?"

C: "What the hell is WFRP?  Ignore them."

 

I was enamored at first with the "splat book" magazine style rulebooks of 3rd ed., but quickly became jaded due to the overt component and book bloat. That bing said, I'm familar enough with the rules now that I rarely need to reference a book, which helps.

 

I enjoyed the boxes for WFRP myself. I wish other games would do something similar once in a while. Maybe not for the whole line, but as a highlight product. Star Wars is sadly heading down a similar path at least where books are concerned. Yeah they have their "3 Standalone Game" flag they're flying but as someone who's bought the whole nine yards to date all I can really see is needless repetition. The juicy bits of the splats are good so far, which has kept me buying them. But part of me feels like a sucker. I'm gonna have 30 books before it's over and the whole line could have been released in 15. I want them to be profitable, but ****. This is why smaller lines like Mindjammer, 13th Age, etc. are starting to appeal to me.

 

If I were to do the whole thing again I'd just invest in Edge, pick up the AoR and F&D betas and call it a day.

 

Warhammer... I have what I need. I'd love more, of course, and there are a few big chunks missing. But it's not coming. Sadly though there are simply too many games out there now that I want to play and run. If a 4e does come out I won't be investing in any of it unless there are adventure paths I can convert to 3e much the way we all did with the 2e stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The death of 3e (2 years ago) got my group playing all kinds of other stuff. Pathfinder, The One Ring, D&D5e, Esteros, Fate...  So many games that have companies that show that they care on their forums, and that will put stuff out...  If I wanted to play a sci-fi game, I might still be with them.

 

Sure, I'll welcome any new product, but a watered down, high-priced 4e with the same company antics ..well...  fool me once...It would have to be something pretty spanking perfect to simply get sold the same crap all over again..with the same details on the empire again..with the same lack of open playtesting..again..with the same spells shoehorned into yet another system..again....and you still would have to wait for scenarios..again.. and FFGs track record of having a gag-order on any friendly relations on their forums..again...and then dropping the license, unfinished...again....

 

I just got the 5e D&D stuff.   They'll be putting out tons of stuff again for years to come and they put in a career/background system and have a very satisfactory skill system.  

 

I'll probably stick with what I've got, finish out another campaign, but I'm not feeling the need to blow another $600 to get let down.

ElCommi and GMmL like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What really sucks here is that 3rd ed was not "bad", it is incredibly good, but due to what amounts to poor marketing decisions and a wrong focus on what is important to the actual playerbase that buys the product, it has gone ***'s up. People were not begging for 4 boxes separating the core rules, they were begging for more fluff, more area's to explore, racial guides and premade adventures. There was a sales and marketing WEALTH of avenues open to keep 3rd ed viable as a product line.

 

Spilt milk I guess. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How FFG managed to drive a 25 year old successful gaming franchise into the ground in just 2 years,

and then silently abandon it on the scrap heap like it never existed,

is something that will be debated in the gaming community forever.

 

 

 

 

.

ElCommi and socratim like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The better question is Emri,

How do you do it to a product that people actually LIKE. :P

You have health issues and when you come back from medical leave you and your entire team have been reassigned to the Mouse House and Glowbat Club.

cronevald and Emirikol like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rule book: keep the career stuff, but give pople more control over their starting careers

Bestiary: make it big and with pictures, not red and green tables!

 

Each playable race should get its own splatbook...

Dwarfs: be able to forge your own rune items if you are a runesmith

chaos: tons of gifts, mutations, chaos weapons, daemonic spells, etc...

empire : like second edition that had a sweet supplement with nice background

elves: high elves AND wood elves

britonians: i don't care for them but they should be playable

 

Don't set the story right at the beginning of archaon's invasion, ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Official dead of 3e!!! - thank You FFG for making it official!

This announcement brings for me new hope to see a new WFRP especialy when at the end of the article designers say:

"While this foray into the Old World in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has concluded, we are huge fans of the Warhammer Fantasy world and would not be surprised if we found ourselves someday crafting new adventures in it. "

So FFG is not letting the licence go and still will create new games in Warhammer Fantasy - thank You FFG one more time!

I would not be suprised if such an announce right before GenCon would mean a new game set in the Old World announce right there! I sure hope so and will keep my fingers crossed fro that!

I have huge hopes for news from FFG and can't wait for GenCon right now!

 

cheers

Beren

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Robin

 

What did you not like about "them **** dice"?

Personally I thought the dice and the dice system *made* 3rd ed.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you liked it but it wasn't for me.

 

Compare to D&D: roll D20 vs a number: if you roll higher you win: easy.

compare to old World of darkness: you roll a number of D6 to get a certain amount of successes: 6= success, 1= bad. easy.

3D edition: you roll (lets say) 3 blue dice, and 2 red (because you are risky?) plus two white ones (you get from your friends) but the GM ads in 2 black dice (who are bad), you roll all that and you get 3 hammers, a  skull and a comet: wow...*

 

It may be cool, but it's not easy.

 

And another thing that bugged me is that you can succeed at an action but something can still go wrong. Okay i get this,(the ghostbusters RPG also had something like that with the ghost die) this can be good to roleplay but now your GM has to quickly make some stuff up on the fly.

 

* thats just an example i don't know of the top of my head what symbol is on what dice so don't bother telling me if the outcome of that example can't happen because "comets only apear on the green dice" or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am afraid FFG are not going to do a 4th edition until GW have themselves sorted out what they want to do to revive the Fantasy brand, as it makes only a quarter of what 40K does. Everything else is pure speculation and it maybe that unless GW get their arse in gear, FFG may find the license not worth renewing in the near future.

Edited by ragnar63
GMmL likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R.I.P

 

It saddens me to see how such a great setting has to suffer once and again from a closing.

 

Wishing for the 4th edition... one thing I liked a lot from the second edition is that they expanded the fluff existing from the first edition with books like Sigmar's Heir, Night's Dark Masters, Renegade Crowns, Children of the Horned Rat etc. If FFG or any other editorial goes for a 4th edition I hope they can expand the world! All the fans from all 3 editions will like this. I understand that we will have to eat again books for the schools of magic, the Empire, Chaos etc. but would be great to see other books dealing with... Orcs, Dark Elves (or all sort of elves), Arabia, Estalia, Norsca! etc.

 

One last thing, now that the line is dead, I can offer the scans of the cards for anyone who wants them (jpeg). I have all the cards scanned but those of the Grey Wizard pod and the Necromancers pod. Just for the feeling, if anyone wants to offer the scans of those cards I don't have it will be nice.

 

Cheers,

Yepes

Edited by Yepesnopes
Thindaraiel, syd3r, socratim and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One last thing, now that the line is dead, I can offer the scans of the cards for anyone who wants them (jpeg). I have all the cards scanned but those of the Grey Wizard pod and the Necromancers pod. Just for the feeling, if anyone wants to offer the scans of those cards I don't have it will be nice.

 

 

 

That sounds interesting! How would you go about that? Mail? DropBox? Do you have them sorted so that one could request a particular Set?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R.I.P

 

It saddens me to see how such a great setting has to suffer once and again from a closing.

 

Wishing for the 4th edition... one thing I liked a lot from the second edition is that they expanded the fluff existing from the first edition with books like Sigmar's Heir, Night's Dark Masters, Renegade Crowns, Children of the Horned Rat etc. If FFG or any other editorial goes for a 4th edition I hope they can expand the world! All the fans from all 3 editions will like this. I understand that we will have to eat again books for the schools of magic, the Empire, Chaos etc. but would be great to see other books dealing with... Orcs, Dark Elves (or all sort of elves), Arabia, Estalia, Norsca! etc.

 

One last thing, now that the line is dead, I can offer the scans of the cards for anyone who wants them (jpeg). I have all the cards scanned but those of the Grey Wizard pod and the Necromancers pod. Just for the feeling, if anyone wants to offer the scans of those cards I don't have it will be nice.

 

Cheers,

Yepes

I can scan the necromancer pod (and Grey order when it arrives) if I can figure out how to make my scanner work.

IF you want them done any particular way let me know and I'll see if I can sort it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wishing for the 4th edition... one thing I liked a lot from the second edition is that they expanded the fluff existing from the first edition with books like Sigmar's Heir, Night's Dark Masters, Renegade Crowns, Children of the Horned Rat etc. If FFG or any other editorial goes for a 4th edition I hope they can expand the world! All the fans from all 3 editions will like this. I understand that we will have to eat again books for the schools of magic, the Empire, Chaos etc. but would be great to see other books dealing with... Orcs, Dark Elves (or all sort of elves), Arabia, Estalia, Norsca! etc.

 

The chances of us getting an Elf (or Norscan, etc) book did not go up by much with this announcement.

 

In order for us to get such a book for a new (or previous) edition, someone has to:

  • 1) Pick up the license.
  • 2) Design and release a new main book, or reprint (a possibly update) the core book of a previous edition
  • 3) Write and release a new adventure to help ease new GMs into the setting and system (this is unlikely to be a reprint)
  • 4) Produce and release the minimum sourcebooks necessary to just play the default Empire-centric setting. So I'd guess at a minimum a magic sourcebook plus a religion sourcebook, and maybe some sort of GM's supplement or bestiary. 4 to 6 products published in total before, counting the corebook and initial adventure, before they get around to exploring new territory.
  • 5) Sell enough copies of those 4 to 6 products to justify continuing work on new titles. This will take time.
  • 6) Decide entirely new content is a better investment of time and energy than merely rehashing old stuff initially covered in existing books from previous editions. In other words, choose to do things the hard way instead of just cashing in on the existing body of previous work.
  • 7) Get GW's approval on their manuscripts, which may be tricky if GW is (as has been rumored) rebooting the miniatures setting.

 

If someone picks up the license, and both major branches of the fan base embrace the new (or reprinted) version, then we'll eventually get some truly new content 4 months to 2 years after the new (or reprinted) core book releases.

 

If instead we splinter into further little angry sub-groups like the fanbase mostly did when 3rd ed came out, the new game (if there is one) won't survive long enough to explore new ground. I'm not usually this pessimistic and cynical, but I don't have a lot of hope here.

 

It's not impossible that FFG could be secretly working on a 4th Ed to be announced at GenCon. That would be the fastest track to us getting actual new content. If they are being that secretive about it, though, I'll be worried about whether or not it got enough playtest before publication. I love 3rd Ed, but it really needed a more thorough blind playtesting than it got.

 

If FFG is not secretly at work on a new edition as we speak, then the next best hope for new content would be if a new licensee was to launch a Kickstarter (etc) to gather up tons of fan money and not release the mechanics (since they'll likely be unappealing to at least 1/2 the possible fanbase either way) until after the money is in their hands. I don't know if GW would let them do that, but if they did a successful crowd-funding might actually free up budget early on for exploring new corners of the setting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0