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DomaGB

Do you like the Dragon expansion?

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I have heard mixed reviews, so I kept an open mind when I purchased the expansion. I have to say that I really like it. The artwork is beautiful and the mechanics are interesting. I believe that many people are approching this expansion the wrong way. Time and again I listen to players lament that the Dragons are not powerful enough or that the mechanics are a burden. My opinion is that this expansion works really well if you are playing it with just the core set, or the core set and just the small expansions only. It also seems to work well with one to three players.

Edited by Eighth Air Force

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I don't like it, though I do like the addition of the Crown Token and the Dragon  Tower board. Of course as long as both of that pieces are homebrewed. The Dragon Tower along with the Nether cards can really be a challenging Inner Region. Unlike the current one.

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I am going to be purchasing this expansion soon. I've heard mix reviews so I am trying to keep an open mind and def. don't want to get my hopes up. I'll report back once my group plays with it.

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We like it, but we're completists, so we buy and use it all. We delay implementation of the scales until a certain bar has passed. Since it's variable, we either get Dragons now, or later. 

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I like The Dragon expansion without house rules; it's my favorite. But only because I act as the accountant for the group and handle all the scale drawing for everyone. I expect the expansion would fall flat otherwise. I have tried some variants such as Elliott's modified rules and they are quite good too.

Edited by Artaterxes

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I always like the extra content - but we always play with house rules:

 

- At the beginning of the game, randomly choose the dragon king.

- On a roll of 1 for movement, place a random dragon token on the space you begin movement from.

- If a token already exists, move it clockwise on the board.

 

All other rules apply.  It's simple enough, and still allows us to fully use the content.

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I really like it.  Tho to be honest i think it makes the game harder, longer.  IMHO i think a simple house rule to limit the when the scales come out, and even maybe the rage.

 

But overall i think it is one of the better more useful expansions.

 

Everyone LOVES dragons

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For those who may be new to Talisman, or don't remember, a few caveats for the Dragon house rules(mentioned in other threads) I use with my wife - we only play a 2 player game.  This is more detailed than I've previously indicated.

 

 1) There is no Dragon Lord or King at the start. Basically, at the start of our games, The Dragon Princes, are uninvolved in the world of Talisman, off in the Firelands or wherever they natively dwell.   Dragon scales are not pulled until after a character encounters the first Dragon, in any region. Now the Dragons realize that Humans are aware of them, and thus the scales begin.

 

2) Eventually the first Dragon is crowned; any Rage scales pulled *before* this, are discarded; there is no king yet.

 

3) On subsequent Dragon crownings, all other Dragon scales are discarded: All dragons start accumulating scales anew. - - this too will decrease the amount of scales on the board.

 

 

  ~ since we use all expansions, to us, this creates a balance between the many other expansions and effects that may contradict.

 

  For whatever reasons, Fireland cards don't seem to pop up as often (but trust me, I'm a thorough shuffler ) we have not had to many discussions on those effects vs. scales  - - - - for example does laying a Terrain card down 'cover' or negate a previously laid scale?

 

   ~~~ A lot of my feelings about Dragon scales are translated through a flavor text I create.   I don't feel the reason for pulling the scales is adequately explained in the rules.  Where do they really come from, that we would need to draw one?

 

Well, in my opinion, using my rules, after the first dragon is encountered, The Lords or their representatives begin flying over the regions . . . scales fall . . .  characters find them, or are found by them.

 

  With this 'scenario' my mind sees other possible alterations or Questions.  How would scales fall 'into' a City shop, since, roof?   I think scales should not be pulled in the shops, basically.   Likewise the Dungeon is an enclosed space, how can scales fall into that? 

 

 As you can see, I can use Dragons and keep the game more balanced, so they don't dominate, but their flavor in the game is still felt.

 

   My best case house rule (which wifey doesn't agree to, though she would rather shoot herself than land on any space with a scale)

   is, using the Day / Night rules along with the Scale formula, like this (flavor text ahead...)

 

  Dragons fly over the Outer, Middle and Highlands as they wish, during the day (so scales only pulled for characters in those regions during the DAY cycle). Dragons don't fly over these areas at Night. No scales pulled in these regions at night.

   Dragons do not fly over the City during the day because they don't want to have scared/angry/villagers/soldiers trying to attack them, or simply want their existence more secret to the "masses" that reside in the City.

 

  But at night, the Dragons will fly  over the City, because they are attracted to the night lights; candles, fires, etc. and feel it is safer for them, since less people are out and about.  So, only pull scales at night, in the City, and not in the shops or temple, etc.

 

  Dragons don't fly into the Dungeon; scales are not pulled for characters in the Dungeon.

    *** I'm not sure what to do with Dragons and the Woodlands; my flavor text mode says, Dragons and the Fae have a truce or peace between them and generally don't bother each other much or have agreed to not fight each other.  So, again, no scales pulled in the Woodland.

  We always use alt endings, so if the End boss is The Frost Queen or The Werewolf, as an example,  than the Dragons are acting under their eminence, so to speak.

Edited by 0beron
Old Master likes this

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Oberon,

I like your last post on the dragon scale subject and agree with everything but the fact that no dragon scale can be found in the dungeon.

For the sake of agreeing with highly popular fantasy/dragon movies and multiple fantasy book authors presenting dragon at ease inside a mountain or in big cave, I don't see how farfetched finding dragon scale would be inside the Talisman dungeon the way it is presented (from a character perspective the dungeon is quite big and take several turn to get to the bottom and let's face it, it's a big cave!).

Dragon can loose scale while flying be also while scratching their hide inside a cave or tunnel.

But anyway, thank you for the "flavor text" and I will see if I can get our gang to try with and without the scale in the dungeon and see the effect on the balance of the game.

 

Cheers

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Dear OM,

 

  Having said all those things, keep in mind that I haven't really done them either, LOL, since I can't really get my wife online with it. She claims to be the biggest hater of Dragon Scales but has not signed off on these ideas.

 

  So once again, having said that, I have taken another thought about the matter and realize you are very correct, friend.

 

 What kind of DandD style game would not have Dragons - as realized through the Scales and all - in the depths of a Dungeon?

 

  So actually, the Dungeon, would be played the opposite (basically no change from a regular use of Dragon)

 

Scales can fall/be pulled, Day or Night!

 

  To sum up:   Highlands, Outer, Middle = only during the Day

                       City = only during night, not in shops,e tc (feel free to house rule as you like)

                       Dungeon = All the time!

                       Woodlands = Never (truce with the Fae)

Old Master likes this

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House rule indeed for the city as it would be nice to figure out how scared can a powerful dragon be from puny land-crawling tiny human! :huh:

Now I'm just LOL tinkering with some flavor text trying to explain why the Eagle King with is sharp eyes would let a dragon roam the highland during the day? Daytime truce!!!

 

Congratulation on your soon to be 750th post.

 

Cheers 

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Well, I'll keep it short. Last night we played a 9 hour game with all the expansions (excluding the deep realms, it's not here yet) and we loved it. The dragon as pretty cool... Though it did make things tough. We ended up with 15+ dragon cards on the top of the adventure deck and with all the corner expansions it was a long time before normal adventure cards were drawn again lol.

Cheers

http://imgur.com/bVevOj3

-Kame

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Oberon, I don't think the Dragon Scale tokens are meant to represent literal dragon scales, but are rather a figurative representation of the growing presence of the dragons in the land, generally either indicating checkpoints or lairs.  That's why a Scale seals off the Portal of Power when its patron is the Dragon King; at the moment his forces there are too strong and alert for you to bypass to get to the Portal; you have to face them instead. 

 

Similarly, when you draw a Dragon item from encountering a Scale, it's something left behind by the Dragon usually present there (Dragons have to fly around and find food; disciplined soldiers of their lord or not, they can't sit around forever in one place without sustenance!). 

 

Finally, that would explain why you take the Scale only when you defeat a Dragon or Cultist there; there's no more draconic force presence now that you've slaughtered the dragon or person assigned there, and your victory has taught you more about how this particular Draconic army fights, thus giving you an advantage in future confrontations with that same force ;).  

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You guys are right, and more logical than I. As mentioned before this is more of a wish-list of doing things to curb the scales.

 

Hey Kame! I love a good all day game myself.

 

  So thanks Old Master - I hadn't realized I was up that far.

 

   Congratulations me!  Happy day everyone!  (we started a game last night with Deep Realms, so I hope to report on that)

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In our initial play of the Dragon Expansion, we used only the base board so the region filled up with scales quickly. It seemed brutal with rage. We also bought a leather bag to hold and draw the tokens because it was cool. After while a real pain to pass the thing around. Next time around, one player drew the scales and worked the dragon cards much faster. We also used the expansion boards so it spread he scales out. In some ways, I think it adds more options for a player, if you have high craft and land on a green dragon scale draw the dragon card. Also the sleep tokens can mellow out a harsh enemy early in the games. Rage is still brutal when a dragon eats the warhorse you just drew two turns ago. We skipped using the expansion for couple of games since it seemed to add two hours to the time, but I have now gone back to it. As previously posted...kind of completist.

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