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jedi moose

Lambda and HWK Strategies

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So I haven't posted in a long while. In fact because of family circumstances I haven't played the game much in the past few months. But after a vacation last week where me and my Brother-in-law were able to play about 7 games in 4 days, I'm ready to get back to playing more often. Since I've been out of the loop for a while I'm looking for what strategies have proven effective with the Lambda and the Hwk. I have one of each but 3+ of all the other ships (1 each of the large ships though).

 

Every time I use the Lambda (3 times total I think) I get my butt handed to me. I just can't find a useful startegy with it. I'm thinking of trying a Vader Shuttle, Ps2 Pilot with Vader and Advanced sensors with the rest of the squad being my tried and tested ships (Fighters, Bombers, Firespray). Startegy being obviously to fly the shuttle slowly down one of the side alleys to avoid asteroids and take as many shots as possible, using vader to hopefully finish off a few ships before the shuttle gets destroyed and the rest of the team can hopefully clean up.

 

With the Hwk, I'm at a loss. I've used every one of the Named Pilots with Turrets and various squads and I can't win with it. Although the time where I used Jan was incredibly close. Although I've been incredibly unfortunate with some of my dice rolls and critical cards (I've had to discard my secondary weapon [turret] several times early in a round as a result of crits).

 

My question is this: What strategies am I missing with these ships? Any suggestions on what you've found to be a successful build with these guys would be appreciated

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I'll let someone else talk about the Great White Space Hippo... I've finally started to get a hang of it, but there's others much better with it then me.

 

The HWK on the other hand, I really like and here's a couple ways you can use it.

 

  • As a cheap Y-Wing w/Ion Turret.  Not going to take as many hits, but it's also 2 points cheaper.
  • Roark as a Ion Turret platform with the added advantage of making sure something you have will always shoot first.  This can be quite useful for taking out a target before it can fire back.  Plus at 19 points it's only 1 point more then a Gold squad. 
  • Kyle with Recon, Moldy Crow Title and a Blaster Turret.  You use Kyle to buff other ships with free focus tokens and then snipe stuff at range 2.  Ideally you run him with some heavy hitters and something that can keep him from getting killed too soon.  Say Biggs or Luke w/DTF and R2-D2  With Kyle you pretty much have to use Recon and Moldy Crow to get the most use out of him.
  • Jan w/Ion and 2-3 heavy hitters.  Jan does pretty good on her own with a ion cannon, but team her up with Wedge and it's brutal.  Wedge at R1 firing 5 dice and a -1 evade dice on the target can bring a ton of pain.

Generally speaking the Blaster Turret needs a recon spec to be effective.  But even then it's a bit of a risk, lose your action and you lose the ability to use the turret.

 

Chewie makes a great crew choice for a HWK, it doesn't have a ton of HP's and for 4 points this really does a lot to keep the HWK in the game for another turn or 2.

 

Kyle, Jan and Roark can all use their abilities on a ship as far away as range 3, so if you're using them to buff/support other ships, best thing to do is keep them range 2 or 3 away which makes the HWK less of a target and maybe un-targetable by the other guy.

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There seem to be 3 main builds with the Lambda

 

  • The "Doomshuttle", which is just an Omicron with Vader and no other upgrades who seeks to blow himself up
  • The "Target Lock King", which is Colonel Jendon with ST-321, Weapons Engineer, and possibly Fire-Control Systems, who seeks to give your swarm of ships that don't have the Target Lock Action a huge advantage
  • The Mystical Alabaster Void Bison, which is a Shuttle with Engine Upgrades, Fire-Control Systems, and a Gunner. This last one is actually a hugely effective fighter, because the Gunner's second shot always has a free target lock to spend.

If you want to be able to SHOOT with your shuttle, you pretty much have to take an Engine Upgrade.

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  • The Mystical Alabaster Void Bison, which is a Shuttle with Engine Upgrades, Fire-Control Systems, and a Gunner.
I used this one with 3 Int's w/PTL and it did very well. Made the list a bit better overall, because not only does it do decent damage. It acts a tank adsorbing hits and letting the Int's be free to worry more about shooting stuff, rather then not getting shot at. Edited by VanorDM

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VanorDM, I've triead those 4 builds almost exactly with the major difference being that I used a Blaster Turet instead of the Ion. Maybe that is what I've been missing to make it more useful. Thanks

 

Dracon, I think for my play style the Doom shuttle is my best choice.  But I think the engine upgrade is a good tip that I'll have to take into consideration if I want to try anything else with it.

 

Has anyone had success using Jendon with Bombers? It would seem that this is his intended purpose but I just don't see how advantageous it is for a ship to have a TL that it could just take as an action itself. Obviously you could take the focus to improve your damage chances with the missile/torp, but is it worth the points for that as its primary purpose?

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VanorDM, I've triead those 4 builds almost exactly with the major difference being that I used a Blaster Turet instead of the Ion.

Blaster turrets are generally not worth the points IMO, other then with Kyle who can stock up enough focus to make it effective.

Has anyone had success using Jendon with Bombers?

I've tried it and so far have been unimpressed with it. He can only give out 1 TL a turn, and only to something at range 1. So best case you can get from him is giving 1 Bomber a TL+Focus, which IMO doesn't seem worth the points... Not for him and everything that he needs to make it work. The Title is almost completely worthless on Jendon IMO. What good does it do you to TL something past range 3, when the bomber has to be with in range 1 of the shuttle anyway?

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Love both Ships. They are not as easy to win with as Xwing/Bwing heavy squads or tie swarms, but I love the tactics and creative squad building they promote. Here are a few builds not yet mentioned that I have enjoyed. 

 

Jan with the ORS and Dutch. The ORS with Jan's help and Chewie crew card is cheap way to get a full power YT. Add in the TL from Dutch and its very offensive indeed. 

 

Kyle (Moldy and Recon) with Dutch and Gold Y. Blaster on the Gold and the HWK Y fueled with Kyles' Focuses (Foci??) passing Can be very offensive, especially with Dutches TLs. You also end up with points for a few PTs, gives you a solid Alpha strike which helps as you are going to be flying fairly tight. 

 

OGP Shutte and Krassix with HLs backed up by Jonus. Monster Alpha strike. If you set it up right and get a couple of rounds of HL shots before things get  tight you are going to have thinned out your opponents squad enough to give you a solid chance of winning.

 

I only have one of each, but Ive heard talk of 4 blanched bovine space wanderers, something to see, that would be. :D

Edited by berusplants

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Alright, I wanted to go into more depth on the Lambda shuttle strategies. I've been playing a lot with them and I have a successful 3 Lamdba list which has more wins than losses.

 

This ship is one that was, for the longest time, much derided. Out of the box it is terrible. A Omicron Group Pilot with no upgrades is rarely worth the points. The trick with the lambda is that it has an incredible amount of upgrades it can take, many with interesting benefits.

 

The Doom Shuttle was the first one to really gain any sort of interest. Simply an Omicron Group Pilot + Vader Crew. Move slowly with this craft and every shot you take, use Vader to inflict a crit. It's a brutal tactic, but costs you 24 points. Against unshielded targets, it can quickly become decisive. The problem is that, if they get behind this beast, it might as well not be in the game anymore.

 

Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer is the imperial equivalent to Kyle Katarn building up and handing out focus tokens, albiet with target locks. An effective opening strategy, as you delay combat long enough to prep an alpha strike. Unfortunately, in most cases, in 100 point games this simply isn't effective for the points spent. Still, can be fun.

 

More recently, a new Lambda build started to gain respect. This craft has a huge problem; it's maneuver dial is terrible with one exception (the stop maneuver). One way to avoid this is to take Engine Upgrade. A large base with the boost action is not to be trifled with as it can suddenly transverse an incredible amount of space in a single turn. Now, it can't turn tightly, but it can turn quickly, and it can travel further than an entire range ruler in a turn. This means, when the craft starts to get into trouble, it can escape, turn around, and joust again in a few turns without the enemy being able to reliably catch it.

 

Further, it is the only ship in the game that has both a systems slot and a crew slot. This allows an incredibly potent combination: Fire-Control System and Gunner. Here's how it works:

 

1) Attack 1

2) Resolve Attack 1

3) Gain Target Lock

4) If Attack 1 missed, initiate Attack 2

5) Use Target Lock gained in step 3

6) Resolve Attack 2

7) Gain Target Lock again

 

This becomes a buzzsaw. You move into range and fire. If they avoid the attack, you get to fire again, this time with target lock (which you have no reason not to spend since you are getting it right back). The enemy evade dice work against them the first attack, since if they avoid 1 point of damage, there's a good chance the next attack will be 3 damage. With Engine Upgrade, you can quickly pounce on an unsuspective enemy before they are ready. You can literally cross half the map in a single turn.

 

The ship has 3 attack dice, which is huge for Imperials, and 10 hitpoints. It can take a beating. At range 1, it can deliver brutal punishment. Further, it's the only ship in the game that doesn't have to move in a round. This might not seem like a big deal, but a major benefit of moving later in the round is that you can be confident that you can move into the space of ships that move before you. You don't know where they are going to move, but unless they are touching something, they will have to move. So, you can move where they were. Not so with the shuttle. This can seriously mess with your flight options. Further, it's such a large base that it can really mess with clear flight paths.

 

Thus, for 32 points you have this:
Omicron Group Pilot + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade

 

This is less than the cost of a bounty hunter and can be a serious threat on the battlefield. One of its biggest advantages remains (though fading) surprise. The first time someone faces a albino star elk, they have no idea what to expect and it's almost always a bad day.

 

Also, the naming convention stems back to my original battle report following the initial use of this setup found here: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93978-three-shuttle-list-2-wins-1-loss/

 

At 32 points, it's easy to work into most lists or can form the basis of a 2 or 3 snowy stellar cow herd. It's not to be underestimated.

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There seem to be 3 main builds with the Lambda

 

  • The "Doomshuttle", which is just an Omicron with Vader and no other upgrades who seeks to blow himself up
  • The "Target Lock King", which is Colonel Jendon with ST-321, Weapons Engineer, and possibly Fire-Control Systems, who seeks to give your swarm of ships that don't have the Target Lock Action a huge advantage
  • The Mystical Alabaster Void Bison, which is a Shuttle with Engine Upgrades, Fire-Control Systems, and a Gunner. This last one is actually a hugely effective fighter, because the Gunner's second shot always has a free target lock to spend.

If you want to be able to SHOOT with your shuttle, you pretty much have to take an Engine Upgrade.

As the figurehead for Team Shuttle there are a few ways I build

 

Suicide Vader or Doomshuttle- Omicron with Vader

Fighter Shuttle, which is similar to the void bison- OGP or Yorr with engine, adv sensors (so you can boost then hard turn 2), and HLC, (you can add ST 321 or Rebel Captive and its fun too)

Tank- OGP or Kagi (OGP for blocks, Kagi for PS) Sensor Jammer, Engine, ion cannon, Rebel Captive) that one is fun because you ion whatever ship shoots you first.

 

 

I've also seen Kagi run this way to great effect: Kagi w/ AdvS + Engine + HLC + ST321 + WEng + RebCap 

 

You'll notice a few themes: Adv+engine (allows for the lambda equivilent of a K Turn), the only shuttle you shouldn't run with an engine is the Doom Shuttle, and with that shuttle you need to have very careful asteroid placement.

 

The trick to the shuttle is creating lanes to corral your opponent. typically I do this by making a triangle pointed towarads the enemy from the corner of the map, placed about one range band diagonally from the corner. This will prevent people from flanking from the side and make it easier to keep them in front of you.

 

EX:

 

I                      A

I           A

I

I                       A    

---------------

Edited by Kelvan

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Ok I had swore that I was never going to use the shuttle again after my last game with it. I lost badly, in fact I yielded after the first pass because I got rocked so hard. My shuttle was down to a couple hull left, Soontir Fel had rolled defense dice badly and was down to one hull, and my firespray had taken a few hits as well. And I had only landed one hit on his Falcon I think. I realized the win was out of reach and wanted to end the game and try something else. Admitedly I messed up flying my shuttle on the initial move. I underestimated how far a bank would take me and as a result spent much of the first pass trying to avoid asteroids. As I mentioned in my OP it had been a while since I played and my flying was a bit rusty. But these suggestiions have me willing to give it another go and I'm hopeful that it will be quite a different result. Here is the squad I'm thinking about:

 

========================
Dark Whale Bounty Hunter
========================

100 points

Pilots
------

Omicron Group Pilot (32)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Fire-Control System (2), Gunner (5), Engine Upgrade (4)

Bounty Hunter (40)
Firespray-31 (33), Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Dark Curse (16)

Academy Pilot (12)

------

View: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/42495/dark-whale-bounty-hunter
Tweak: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build/42495

 

The two large ships should bring a lot of damage and durability with a support tie for each to help mop up the scraps and be a general annoyance. Thoughts?

Edited by jedi moose

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Moose, not to nitpick but why don't you try something like this:

 

100 points
 
Pilots
------
 
Bounty Hunter (36)
Firespray-31 (33), Recon Specialist (3)
 
Omicron Group Pilot (36)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (21), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Intelligence Agent (1), Engine Upgrade (4)
 
Backstabber (16)
 
Academy Pilot (12)
 
Drop the Intelligence Agent for initiative.
 
Reasons why:
 
HLC on bounty hunter is counter intuitive. The Firespray starts to show how amazing it is once you fly to set up shots for your butt cannon rear arc. Also recon specialist is one of the best cards for a firespray. HLC on a lambda works best because the front arc is the only arc you'll be shooting out of anyway, may as well make it 4 dice.
 
Backstabber>Dark Curse 95% of the time. In your list your most offensive ships are the: BH, OGP, DC, AP and your most defensive are DC, BH,  Lamda, AP. Generally you want your most offensive ships to be your most defensive. No one will ever shoot dark curse but they will shoot your BH or Lambda. Why not bring a bigger gun that might draw fire (due to it only being 3 hp) from your firespray or lambda, the goal is to keep your offense on the field for as long as possible.
 
My list offense OGP, BH, BS, AP Defense: BH, OGP (only if you fly well with engine, the OGP is a flank ship not a tank like the BH), BS, AP
 
Also while i love firecontrol systems, the adv sensor + engine combo lets you boost then hard turn 2... essentially letting you turn around faster by a turn.
Edited by Kelvan

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Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer is the imperial equivalent to Kyle Katarn building up and handing out focus tokens, albiet with target locks. An effective opening strategy, as you delay combat long enough to prep an alpha strike.

I have to admit I was mistaken about something. For some reason I was thinking TL's went away at the end of a turn like Focus do... I was all ready to point out how this strategy doesn't work and I started to think about it and realized the flaw in my thinking...

So yes this does actually work well if you can delay getting into firing range for a while.

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Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer is the imperial equivalent to Kyle Katarn building up and handing out focus tokens, albiet with target locks. An effective opening strategy, as you delay combat long enough to prep an alpha strike.

I have to admit I was mistaken about something. For some reason I was thinking TL's went away at the end of a turn like Focus do... I was all ready to point out how this strategy doesn't work and I started to think about it and realized the flaw in my thinking...

So yes this does actually work well if you can delay getting into firing range for a while.

 

All asteroids to the middle, set up opposite corner of the enemy. ready for a hard turn to engage... make the enemy come to you. This only works if you set up after an enemy.

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Colonel Jendon + ST-321 + Weapon Engineer is the imperial equivalent to Kyle Katarn building up and handing out focus tokens, albiet with target locks. An effective opening strategy, as you delay combat long enough to prep an alpha strike.

I have to admit I was mistaken about something. For some reason I was thinking TL's went away at the end of a turn like Focus do... I was all ready to point out how this strategy doesn't work and I started to think about it and realized the flaw in my thinking...

So yes this does actually work well if you can delay getting into firing range for a while.

 

All asteroids to the middle, set up opposite corner of the enemy. ready for a hard turn to engage... make the enemy come to you. This only works if you set up after an enemy.

 

I personally prefer setting a Col. Jendon perpendicular to the rest of my ships, so he fades alongside my opening edge for the first few turns.

Remember: with Weapons Engineer, he can get 2 target locks from ST-321, so he'd still have one to hand out if he does a Stop maneuver every other turn in the early game.

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HLC on bounty hunter is counter intuitive. The Firespray starts to show how amazing it is once you fly to set up shots for your butt cannon rear arc. Also recon specialist is one of the best cards for a firespray. HLC on a lambda works best because the front arc is the only arc you'll be shooting out of anyway, may as well make it 4 dice.
 
Backstabber>Dark Curse 95% of the time. In your list your most offensive ships are the: BH, OGP, DC, AP and your most defensive are DC, BH,  Lamda, AP. Generally you want your most offensive ships to be your most defensive. No one will ever shoot dark curse but they will shoot your BH or Lambda. Why not bring a bigger gun that might draw fire (due to it only being 3 hp) from your firespray or lambda, the goal is to keep your offense on the field for as long as possible.

 

I like your ideas but: I almost always take HLC on the Firespray becasue I guess i think of the rear arc as a bonus more than a strategy to build for. Trying to set up a rear arc shot is tough and hard to rely on IMO while trying to avoid asteroids and other ships in the middle of the board. And if you try to stay to the alleys to avoid asteroids, turning your ship to set up a rear arc shot will often leave you with your firespray heading a little too close to the edge of the map. I think i prefer HLC on the firespray over the Shuttle because the shuttle will likely get taken down faster because of its 1 agility, especially if that shuttle has a HLC, making it a prime target.  And as for backstabber, the issue i see for your suggestion is that although he is more of an offensive threat than DC, in order for him to be an offensive threat he has to be out of the other ships arc, which reduces the effectiveness of the strategy to take damage from the shuttle.

But I am interested in trying a build with the advanced sensors and the engine upgrade. That's part of the other build I'm toying with.

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loads of gr8 advice here already. I have recently been corrupted by the power of the shuttlehippomus. It is my favorite ship to play.

  • I have a full battle report of a 120pt game i played where i played the two shuttles with very different loadouts (1= Doom shuttle, 1= gunner/FCS combo) found here... http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/96731-double-shuttle-squad-for-the-win/
  • I am also looking to build a shuttle + slave1 squad. Still working through various options. ONe issue with pairing the Omicron with a Bounty Hunter is the low Pilot Skills. To improve this aspect I am looking at name pilots like Kath or Bobba Fett - they have the added benefit of having an elite pilot latent slot to run things like Swarm Tactics or Expert Handing.
  • Recon Specialist should also get a strong recommendation as  that double focus can really help the survivability of ur Slave1 as well as letting u focus fire every turn u select focus as ur action AND keep one focus of defense the same turn u fire :)
Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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How to set up rear shots with a firespray... get into scrum, get shot... run away. I find that 60% of my shots are from the rear arc and i get blocked less.

 

If your shuttle is the first thing that dies you're flying it too close to the main battle... it's a flanking ship. The bounty hunter and academy are the ships you offer to the enemy to shoot.

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How to set up rear shots with a firespray... get into scrum, get shot... run away. I find that 60% of my shots are from the rear arc and i get blocked less.

 

If your shuttle is the first thing that dies you're flying it too close to the main battle... it's a flanking ship. The bounty hunter and academy are the ships you offer to the enemy to shoot.

I guess I'm going to have to practice flanking with the shuttle. Thanks for the tip.

And maybe if i didn't have the HLC on my BH i wouldn't be trying to flip it around to line up shots as much and might get more out of my rear arc. I'll give it a shot with a RS and see how it goes.

So what is your flanking strategy with the shuttle? Fly down the edge as fast as possible on the opening move using boost  and then turn around 135 degrees and try to catch them from behind/side?

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I guess I'm going to have to practice flanking with the shuttle. Thanks for the tip.

And maybe if i didn't have the HLC on my BH i wouldn't be trying to flip it around to line up shots as much and might get more out of my rear arc. I'll give it a shot with a RS and see how it goes.

So what is your flanking strategy with the shuttle? Fly down the edge as fast as possible on the opening move using boost  and then turn around 135 degrees and try to catch them from behind/side?

 

So, I don't use Advanced Sensors (FCS makes them much more lethal). I setup one shuttle to the side, alone.  If I have a clear lane of movement and they are not set up across from the beast I move forward three, then bank inwards with a boost. I then move forward three and bank inwards with a boost. This puts my alabaster stellar walrus back on their side of the table, facing to the side. If they rushed forward, the next turn is a 90* turn towards them and you are now behind their craft.

 

Note, this is a general rule and one almost always modified due to conditions such as asteroids, enemy placement and movement, enemy composition, and so on.

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I guess I'm going to have to practice flanking with the shuttle. Thanks for the tip.

How to set up rear shots with 

And maybe if i didn't have the HLC on my BH i wouldn't be trying to flip it around to line up shots as much and might get more out of my rear arc. I'll give it a shot with a RS and see how it goes.

So what is your flanking strategy with the shuttle? Fly down the edge as fast as possible on the opening move using boost  and then turn around 135 degrees and try to catch them from behind/side?

 

the trick is to get as many forward shots as possible. with boost on the shuttlehippomus you are trying to fire twice and then boost through and whirl around for a second engagement.

  • i have been setting up in the corner hard up against the edge and swing into the asteroid field on turn 2-3 but moving slowly.
  • Another tactic is to intentionally stall behind your own ships (deliberately bumping against it) to keep it at the back for longer - this will take practice and which of ur ships u have in front will vary depending on what PS they have.
  • Another tactic is tried (in practice only) is setting up facing sideways and crawling along the back edge until i am ready to turn forward.
  • It is good to have targets like backstabber or an intercepter to bait the enemy into moving into ur shuttles firing arc - this tactic will take time to master but its worth having it in mind if ur squad has 'bait fighters'.
Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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  • The Mystical Alabaster Void Bison, which is a Shuttle with Engine Upgrades, Fire-Control Systems, and a Gunner.
I used this one with 3 Int's w/PTL and it did very well. Made the list a bit better overall, because not only does it do decent damage. It acts a tank adsorbing hits and letting the Int's be free to worry more about shooting stuff, rather then not getting shot at.

 

 

VanorDM, I wonder if you could elaborate this build you're describing?

 

I thought it sounded like fun, but I don't think it's possible with a 100 point squad, is it?

 

The cheapest Interceptors that can take Push the Limit and the cheapest Lambda still costs more than 100pts with those upgrades...

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id guess it would look something like...

 

Omicron/Vader Crew (24)

Sabre Squadron Pilot/PTL (24)

Sabre Squadron Pilot/PTL (24)

Sabre Squadron Pilot/PTL (24)

 

4pts left for upgrades, perhaps Rebel Captive?

Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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VanorDM, I wonder if you could elaborate this build you're describing?

Sure, and it's not exactly the same set up as above...

Saber Squadron Pilot, PtL (24)

Saber Squadron Pilot, PtL (24)

Saber Squadron Pilot, PtL (24)

Omicron Group Pilot, FCS, Engine Upgrade (27)

I don't have the gunner, because as you point out, there's no way to fit it in a 100 point list. :)

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So with these shuttle strategies, are you able to avoid asteroids consistantly or is it something that I should expect to roll for some damage and lose some actions? That is my biggest issue with the dude: its rough trying to avoid all of the asteroids and still line up shots once you enter the center of the board. That movement dial is atrocious with the large base

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ok cool, i see ur post now V.DM.

 

how about..

 

99pts

Backstabber (16)
Saber Squadron Pilot, PtL (24)
Saber Squadron Pilot, PtL (24)
Captain Yorr, FCS, Engine Upgrade, Gunner (35)

 

Backstabber is an immitation intercepter already.

Yorr takes stress for the Sabres when he needs to eg. K-Turn, pass stress to Yorr, Barrel Roll or Boost THE Focus... yikes!

Even Backstabber could pull off a similar move by getting to K-Turn and focus fire in the same move :)

Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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