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Plague Worms : Burrows

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No.

The plague worm needs to count spaces to where it comes up, and counting spaces requires the spaces to be adjacent, each to the next.

Doors explicitly break adjacency when they are closed.

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i found this on the bbg's forum:

 

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Q: How exactly does the plague worms burrow movement work? Does the worm move 3 spaces as per the large monster movement rules but ignores figures and obsticals because it is esentialy under ground? Or does he need to be placed compleatly within the 3 spaces? Which would be the same as its speed of 2.

A:It works the same way as large monster movement: choose a space within 3 spaces (ignoring figures and obstacles), then "expand" the Plague Worm in a direction of your choice.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com

 

--------------------------------------------------------

 

so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door

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so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door

 

I'm not seeing where you're getting that. "Within X spaces" is pretty clearly defined in the rulebook (see Counting Spaces) and has been confirmed by FFG a number of times that it doesn't work through doors.

 

Note that a door is not considered an obstacle. Obstacle is a game term referring to a specific set of items that are called out as such, and doors are never referred to as obstacles.

Edited by griton

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so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door

I disagree. Justin says it "works like large monster movement." Can large monsters move through a closed door? No, they cannot.

This answer only adds further support to what I was saying above, and it contradicts none of the points I made.

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so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door

I disagree. Justin says it "works like large monster movement." Can large monsters move through a closed door? No, they cannot.

 

 

does large monster ignore figures and obstacles?   no they cannot too ...

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being purely logic, worms would be able to since they go under the door.

 

But, the game being not logical, since you must count spaces, and you can't through doors, it's no.

Edited by rugal

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does large monster ignore figures and obstacles?   no they cannot too ...

You have a remarkable ability to completely ignore everything other than the single thing you just finished reading.

Here's how it works, as simply as I can put it:

- The plague worm's Burrow ability requires you to pick a space "within 3 spaces" where the worm will come up.

- Which spaces are "within X" is determined by using the rules for counting spaces, described on page 13 of the core rulebook.

- in order to count spaces, the spaces being counted must be connected by being adjacent.

- closed doors explicitly break adjacency between spaces on either side, so you can't "count spaces" through a closed door (this is mentioned in the rules for counting spaces.)

- Therefore spaces on the other side of a closed door cannot be "within 3" of the plague worm, because you can't count past the door.

- therefore you cannot Burrow through a closed door.

 

Justin's answer, which compares Burrow to large monster movement, does not add anything that contradicts the above logic.

 

You can play by whatever house rules help you sleep at night, but the official answer, per RAW and supported by Justin, is that no, you cannot burrow through a closed door.

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Justin's reference to large monster movement basically means: pick one of the spaces the worm currently occupies, and start counting from there (the same way you "shrink" with large monsters), then after you count 3 spaces, you expand from that point.

 

The "ignoring obstacles and figures" (and terrain, though he didn't mention it), is what separates the worm from other large monsters.

 

So basically, the worm's burrow is treated like a move action that can ignore obstacles, figures, and terrain, but also can't be interrupted, but the "shrink/expand" mechanic still applies, just like it does with other large monsters.

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I agree with steve-o. they cannot burrow through closed doors, even though a door is not underground and therefore logically should not block "burrow". but doors are explicitly supposed to block all movement for a reason.

 

my guess is, that "burrow" is supposed to be the equivalent to "flying". all it is meant to give you, is the ability to ignore obstacles, like enemy figures. and you cannot fly over closed doors either.

 

if a worm was able to fly, they would have given it the "flying" ability, but it is not, so it got the "burrow" ability  :lol:

Edited by aniedrig

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my guess is, that "burrow" is supposed to be the equivalent to "flying". all it is meant to give you, is the ability to ignore obstacles, like enemy figures. and you cannot fly over closed doors either.

Burrow is not exactly like Fly though. A figure that flies still moves through spaces (which means it "enters" those spaces in case any hero abilities key off that.) Burrowing does not pass through the spaces in between. It disappears here and reappears there.

Also, a burrowing monster can move figures out of the space(s) where it comes up. Flyers can ignore figures while moving but they have to stop in a legal space.

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I have a question:

 

The card say "Limit once per monster per turn". That mean i can only use this ability 1 time per turn with one plague worm of the group? or i can use it once for each monster of the group per turn?

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I have a question:

 

The card say "Limit once per monster per turn". That mean i can only use this ability 1 time per turn with one plague worm of the group? or i can use it once for each monster of the group per turn?

Each plague worm is a monster. Once per plague worm per turn. If you have 3 plague worms, each plague worm can burrow once.

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Plague worm uses his <burrow> ability:

Which spaces exactly are considered as "enters that space". The space the worm comes out ? Or doesn't it enters any space at all ? (e.g. important for the shadow tome item)

Other similar abilities like <hrow> or <knockback> have the text "He counts as entering that space." which burrow has not.

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A character enters a space whenever it is the declared space to which it is placed, regardless of what method it used to travel there. Expanding does not count as entering a space.

 

The additional text on knockback and throw is redundant, but it's there regardless.

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A character enters a space whenever it is the declared space to which it is placed, regardless of what method it used to travel there. Expanding does not count as entering a space.

 

The additional text on knockback and throw is redundant, but it's there regardless.

Right, and according to Justin, the worm does indeed expand with Burrow. So, the wyrm enters the 1 space that is 3 spaces away from where it disappears, but not the second space it ends up occupying.

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Watched a video on Dice Tower which Tom Vasel mentions just this. He says he likes using the worms because of their ability to burrow thru doors. I understand his comment doesn't mean squat in terms of official rulings but since I saw that video I have been using the worms in the same manner in regards to the burrowing ability.

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Plague Worms cannot burrow through doors, as you can't count spaces through them.

Edited by AndrewMM

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After further thought I'd have to change my mind on this. Originally I allowed the worms to burrow under closed doors however burrow reads exactly like Tomble's heroic feat and I wouldn't let a player place Tomble on the other side of a closed door.

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When Plague Worm uses Burrow,this ability says :Remove the figure from the map and place it in an unoccupied or occupied space up to 3 spaces. Each figure occupying any target space is moved to the closest empty space of your choice and suffers 1 Fatigue. Limit once per monster per turn.

 

1.About "...Each figure occupying..." , does it mean that a space has multi-figures in any condition ? 

2.Quest "At the forge - counter 2", Can I use a plague worm to move NPC that under overlord's controling  into lava space ? (Overlord can activate NPC  and he will be defeated by the lava effect)

  It yes , this quest can be win by overlord in first round if Plague Worm(put in 4B's conner and close NPC as possible) can survive and has enough movement.

3.If  a condition: 

 

PPXFF|

XXXFT|

-----|

X:empty sapce

F:a 1x1 Figure

T:Target sapce with a figure

P:Plague worm

 

which one is correct ? 

a:Move both targe space's figure and the adjacent figure(top or left side ) to the closest spave 

b:Can't target this space . Because after Burrow's effect , the Plague Worm can't expand. 

 

4.another condition: 

 

PPXXTF

 

X:empty sapce

F:a 1x1 Figure

T:Target empty sapce

P:Plague worm

 

Burrow says: "...place it in an unoccupied or occupied space up to 3 spaces... "

Can i Choose T space and then choose F Sapce to be Plague worm's second space(it's 1x2 monster)?

In fact, I just want to be sure if I can move legally that figure in F space .

 

5.Another timing question:

 

Can Overlord play Dark Charm firstly for seeing if hero passes the will check ? 

  (And then he decides to play Word of Misery or not )

 

If yes , for Marshal's By The Book , can he choose fairly after playing two card which one to cancel or he only choose using skill or not one by one in order  ?

Edited by edcy

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