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jerrypocalypse

Question about the E-9 Explorer in Enter the Unknown

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I apologize if this has been discussed, but I was unable to locate an information during my cursory search.

 

The weapons section of the stat block for the Loronar E-9 Explorer on page 62 of Enter the Unknown states: "One dorsal and one ventral turret-mounted medium laser cannon (Fire Arc All; Damage 6; Critical 3; Range [Close]; Linked 1)."

 

I'm confused about the Linked quality. Is this indicating that the two turrets are linked together and are considered one weapon or is it indicating each turret has the Linked quality? Since neither is a "twin" cannon I also thought that including the Linked quality may have been an error. Does anyone have any thoughts or clarification? Thanks!

Edited by jerrypocalypse

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A group that I am playing in had a similar dispute with the YT-2400 just this week.

 

We came to the conclusion that when it is specified as 'Linked' at time of being built, it is one firing station.  This is a little weird to deal with when it comes to Dorsal and Ventral turrets, as being able to fire at the same target requires the perfect angle.

We also decided that keeping them linked would be a bad idea....  So, we're working on building a new firing station at the cost of a Hard Point.

 

I'd say that this is one of those things that should be optional.  If the team wants it linked, they can have it so at no cost AT TIME OF ACQUISITION.  Otherwise, it seems crippling.

Edited by Serif Marak

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You suggestion of making it optional made me think of something. It might make sense to have them count as Linked with a Fire Arc Front when the pilot is controlling the weapons. Then a switch could be flipped allowing gunners to control the weapons from the turrets, removing the Linked quality and giving both a Fire Arc All.

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You suggestion of making it optional made me think of something. It might make sense to have them count as Linked with a Fire Arc Front when the pilot is controlling the weapons. Then a switch could be flipped allowing gunners to control the weapons from the turrets, removing the Linked quality and giving both a Fire Arc All.

You make a fair point.  Though, I would not leave it in the Pilot's hands.  The Pilot already has to deal with maneuvers and such to avoid getting hit.

Make a co-pilot position.

Then, sure, give it an option for individual gunners.  That's not a bad idea.

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

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Why possibly would the physical location mean anything about what weapons can be linked? ISDs can have weapons nearly a mile apart linked.

 

Linked means the weapons fire in the same direction at the same target at the same time. So unless you can get the bottom turret to shoot up and the top turret to shoot down, it is a typo.

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

 

No, it doesn't. Dorsal and Ventral just means top and bottom. That means they can both track targets in a 360 degree arc horizontally around the ship (front, left, back, right) and fire together to hit it. So, if you get a hit and enough Advantages to get the Linked to go off, then you happened to fire when the target was in that disc area somewhere around the main ship.

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

 

No, it doesn't. Dorsal and Ventral just means top and bottom. That means they can both track targets in a 360 degree arc horizontally around the ship (front, left, back, right) and fire together to hit it. So, if you get a hit and enough Advantages to get the Linked to go off, then you happened to fire when the target was in that disc area somewhere around the main ship.

 

I suggest you reread the rules on how dorsal/ventral restricts the firing arcs.

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I don't think it's a problem. The idea would be that from one firing station the correct turret would be aimed in a way to hit. If you get a linked hit, then narratively the enemy has gone dorsal to ventral, or the Gunner convinced the pilot to roll a bit.

I do wish the ship combat rules were more tactical...

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I don't think it's a problem. The idea would be that from one firing station the correct turret would be aimed in a way to hit. If you get a linked hit, then narratively the enemy has gone dorsal to ventral, or the Gunner convinced the pilot to roll a bit.

I do wish the ship combat rules were more tactical...

I'm glad they aren't as ship combat isn't tactical, but fluid. I've done enough simulators and some real dog-fighting and know just how quickly things change when you're caught up in the furball of the fight.

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

 

No, it doesn't. Dorsal and Ventral just means top and bottom. That means they can both track targets in a 360 degree arc horizontally around the ship (front, left, back, right) and fire together to hit it. So, if you get a hit and enough Advantages to get the Linked to go off, then you happened to fire when the target was in that disc area somewhere around the main ship.

 

I suggest you reread the rules on how dorsal/ventral restricts the firing arcs.

 

Right... the rules read as I said. Yes, dorsal can't shoot at ventral and vice versa, but this isn't a tactical game. Nothing stops a pilot from having rolled the ship around for the guns to be brought to bear (what was "above" is now "beside" just by realigning in 3D space).

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

 

No, it doesn't. Dorsal and Ventral just means top and bottom. That means they can both track targets in a 360 degree arc horizontally around the ship (front, left, back, right) and fire together to hit it. So, if you get a hit and enough Advantages to get the Linked to go off, then you happened to fire when the target was in that disc area somewhere around the main ship.

 

I suggest you reread the rules on how dorsal/ventral restricts the firing arcs.

 

Right... the rules read as I said. Yes, dorsal can't shoot at ventral and vice versa, but this isn't a tactical game. Nothing stops a pilot from having rolled the ship around for the guns to be brought to bear (what was "above" is now "beside" just by realigning in 3D space).

 

That makes about as much sense as linking forward arc guns to port or starboard arc guns. Just because you can maneuver to allow them to hit a target sequentially does not mean they can hit it simultaneously which is what Linked is all about.

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The way I read this ship is that it has two separate weapon systems, one dorsal and one ventral, and each one has the linked quality.  So, in essence, each is a twin medium laser cannon, even though it doesn't say "twin" in the description.  Not all weapon systems with a "Linked 1" quality are described with the term "twin" (Storm IV Cloud Car, as an example, or the wingtip lasers of a Headhunter).  However, all the ones I've found so far do refer to the weapon in the plural, while the E-9's weapons are mentioned as singular.  I still see them as two separate weapon systems, each having "Linked 1".  But I could be wrong :)

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The X-wing weapons are fire-linked and they are separated from each other. Why couldn't two turrets also be linked to fire together at a target?

Because the lasers on an X-wing all fire into the same arc while the turrets on the E-9 do not due to the dorsal/ventral separation (which actually makes it impossible per the rules to target something with both weapons at the same time).

 

No, it doesn't. Dorsal and Ventral just means top and bottom. That means they can both track targets in a 360 degree arc horizontally around the ship (front, left, back, right) and fire together to hit it. So, if you get a hit and enough Advantages to get the Linked to go off, then you happened to fire when the target was in that disc area somewhere around the main ship.

 

I suggest you reread the rules on how dorsal/ventral restricts the firing arcs.

 

Right... the rules read as I said. Yes, dorsal can't shoot at ventral and vice versa, but this isn't a tactical game. Nothing stops a pilot from having rolled the ship around for the guns to be brought to bear (what was "above" is now "beside" just by realigning in 3D space).

 

That makes about as much sense as linking forward arc guns to port or starboard arc guns. Just because you can maneuver to allow them to hit a target sequentially does not mean they can hit it simultaneously which is what Linked is all about.

 

That isn't hitting sequentially. What I described is both guns shooting when the target was "beside" you based on the ship being reoriented.

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Somebody will have to explain to me why this isn't possible. I understand that they can not fire together dosally or ventrally, but why not forward, aft, port or starboard?

There isnt a reason. That is actually how I do it with the Consular Cruiser my players have. They can fire 4 of the 6 turrets at any one target. It is rounding it a bit just for simplicity but it works fairly well.

 

Dosent change the fact that the enrty in the OP is a typo tho.

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Dosent change the fact that the enrty in the OP is a typo tho.

Why is it a typo? I understand that it certainly could be, but why the assumption that it is. Could it not have been done purposely like that? Giving the pilot a linked weapon system in certain arcs? I don't understand the reasoning for it to be a typo. Some have tried to use rules to explain it, but nothing there says it can't be. It strikes me as a poor man's Millennium Falcon in that Han was able to fire his quad cannons linked. So there is an in universe precedent, so why not this ship too?

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Dosent change the fact that the enrty in the OP is a typo tho.

Why is it a typo? I understand that it certainly could be, but why the assumption that it is. Could it not have been done purposely like that? Giving the pilot a linked weapon system in certain arcs? I don't understand the reasoning for it to be a typo. Some have tried to use rules to explain it, but nothing there says it can't be. It strikes me as a poor man's Millennium Falcon in that Han was able to fire his quad cannons linked. So there is an in universe precedent, so why not this ship too?

 

Given the abstract simplicity of the system so far I can't fathom that this is intended to "link" separate dorsal and ventral slots. A quad cannon is firing multiple bolts, and the linked applies to that canon much in the way it's treated with a TIE fighter. A single roll representing a barrage of shots from a 4 "barreled" weapon. This is a heavy munchkin/house-rule forum, though... so I suppose there will be all kinds of thesis' supporting a single roll that fires every weapon on a ship simultaneously :) I imagine your mileage will vary based on GM interpretation. The weapon descriptions in the book seem clear, but the crew compliment listing leaves the door open for wacky interpretation.

Edited by Keeop

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I'm not talking about a single quad weapon. I'm speaking of two of them being used together. In game terms, when Han fired both together it would have had linked 7. Why can't the cannons on the E-9 be fired together in the arcs they share? I don't recall that same weapons must be fixed in the same arc or physically together. So why is this not possible? It may be wrong, but why is it not possible?

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I'm not talking about a single quad weapon. I'm speaking of two of them being used together. In game terms, when Han fired both together it would have had linked 7. Why can't the cannons on the E-9 be fired together in the arcs they share? I don't recall that same weapons must be fixed in the same arc or physically together. So why is this not possible? It may be wrong, but why is it not possible?

I see where you're going now. Interesting question. I suppose it's to keep a group of veteran/Pathfinder min maxers from single-man piloting a small fleet of E-9's or YT's at the GM's minion pack of TIE fighters. 

 

 (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)

 

Sort of kidding. :) On a more serious note I suppose it takes out an accounting step. A smooth GM and attentive player table could probably keep up with the relative arc and ship positioning of the entire play area in an encounter without pausing the action or narrative but I question whether the average group is capable of that. There's some of that happening anyway, but it seems a bit offstep from what's already there. Don't have all the answers there.

Edited by Keeop

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My group also took the E-9 explorer even though they haven't seen space combat yet, I would just make them twin turrets to simplify everything. Unfortunately, it does easily make the E-9 one of the strongest, if not the strongest, choice for a starter ship with its Class 1 hyperdrive, good armor and thresholds, and excellent handling. Ha, I sound like a used starship salesman.

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