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khimaera

What do you think is next?

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Assuming FFG keeps going with their one game a year-ish plan, what do you think the next game in the 40K line will be? Let's just assume that they meant it when they said the other games won't be getting 2nd Ed updates.

 

Sorry if this is OT, I wasn't sure where to drop this.

Edited by khimaera

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Beyond updating other lines (which, let's be honest, will happen sooner or later as long as FFG retains the license - it may not be the next year, but it'll happen for sure, maybe with OW base system like DH2, maybe they'll once again try to push something completely new, but they'll do it within the next few years), there's not that much they can do to keep a scale comparable with the existing games.

 

What they could do is a Xenos-centered system, either Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar (least likely, methinks) or Tau. I don't think they'll make that decision lightly, seeing that:

a) humanity outdoes all xenos cobbled together when it comes to popularity, which doesn't bode well for sales,

b) GW tends to be obsessive about claiming their xenos are so alien-minded as to be impossible to understand, despite them clearly being at least as understandable as any Star Trek aliens,

c) some fans are adamant about sticking to the party line when it comes to b), despite the clearly observable evidence to the contrary, which once again doesn't bode well for projected sales.

 

Other than that, I really don't see anything in the 40k lore that'd make a good vehicle for a roleplaying game setting.

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Xenoes are an abominations that only exist as an outlet for the holy wrath of the Imperiums warriors.

Honestly though, I have no real interest in a Xeno game. I don't mind them in RT (except Ork PCs. **** that) or as occasional allies in DH, but beyond that, no real desire to play or GM that

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As Eldar surprisingly got not mich love so far, I could very well imagine an own rpg line for them, even if only a small one (if it eas up to me, I'd also keep BC and OW as rather smaller exotic lines, and RT and DW besides DH as main lines).

Other than that: RT and DW second edition.

I really want more about the eldar, I would prefer to integrate it into DH though.

Edited by GauntZero

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c) some fans are adamant about sticking to the party line when it comes to b), despite the clearly observable evidence to the contrary, which once again doesn't bode well for projected sales.

 

I strongly suspect almost all of those people (of which I am one) wouldn't want playable non-humans whatever GW thought about it. To me playable non-humans in a setting that has humans, become an obstacle to good roleplaying. Because they're humans, but nerfed in the personality/character department. And people always end up either playing them straight, or playing them as snowflake characters - both of which results in a PC locked into one stereotype or another that disconnects the player from the fiction.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love gnomish illusionists to bits for straight crawls. But I never want to see one at the table if the object of the game is to be a serious little emu.

 

Aaanyways... if FFG comes out with a xeno line, I'm guessing it would be Ork-centric, but with enough lack of focus thematically to enable FFG to sneak in support for all the other xenos. And I'm guessing Orks because Orks have the most contact with the Imperium by very, very far.

 

I don't think chances of a xeno line are very good, though. But FWIW I feel for all you guys who really-really want an Eldar line. That I wouldn't buy into it doesn't mean I don't think you should have the option.

 

I'm line-fatigued. I'm sick and tired of buying high-priced cores that are 50%+ copypasta. But even so, I would definitely buy into a Game of Thrones-style Peers of The Empire line, where players take on the roles of the high-nobility & sector Adepta leadership. 

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b) GW tends to be obsessive about claiming their xenos are so alien-minded as to be impossible to understand, despite them clearly being at least as understandable as any Star Trek aliens,

 

This was a long time ago, before Black Library hit the money cow with their xeno books. Just read the Eldar omnibus or the Shadowsun novel. Both have exclusively xeno PoVs. Okay, the human side-characters in Shadowsun steal the show but that's the writer's fault  :D

 

Also, in my experience, the biggest problem with xenos is that they are better than humans so it would be a nightmare to balance them out game-mechanics wise. It would be BC's human/SM problem all over again.

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I can see an Eldar game focused on a coterie of Eldar from the various disciplines (I have no idea what they are actually called) coming together under the guidance of a Farseer.  The format may not be that different from Dark Heresy but the Webway would allow the group to travel further afield.

Never mind that there's no precedent for it in the Lore - unless there is, I've not read any Eldar fiction - there are a lot of storytelling opportunities in a game like this.

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As hilarious as Paranoia In Space would be, the Eldar probably have the most RPG potential of all the xenos races. They look almost human since they're essentially elves in space. In my experience, elves are the most popular race in the most well-known RPG line of all time (you guessed it, D&D), so there's quite a lot of potential. Eldar society is highly regimented into various Paths (Warrior, Seer, Wanderer, etc), and individual Eldar typically walk many Paths during their long lives. If this sounds a lot like RPG classes, you're thinking what I'm thinking.

I imagine an Eldar RPG working like Reverse Dark Heresy. Instead of investigating/purging heretics and conspiracies as an Inquisitor and his Acolytes, the players play as a Farseer and steer the events of the galaxy to ensure the survival of their craftworld. The GM could present the Farseer with a vision of a catastrophe to come: "You see the destruction of Iyanden by an Ork Waaagh! originating in the Charadon system. What steps will you take to prevent this?" The players would craft a ploy of manipulation (the more devious the better) to thwart this fate, then perform missions of diplomacy/sabotage/assassination/outright war to put their plan into action. This would be a very different style of game than Dark Heresy -- instead of investigating evil plots, the players would play the factions of the galaxy against each other like an elaborate game of chess.

However, things wouldn't always go smoothly for the players. A powerful Chaos Sorceror, Space Marine Librarian, or psychic Inquisitor could have similar portents and move to stop the players from executing their plans. The consequences of the players' actions could also come back to haunt them in the future. Perhaps the Imperial hive world that broke an Ork Waaagh! would find its strength depleted and fall to the forces of Chaos. This can throw a serious monkey wrench into the players' well-crafted plans and force them to improvise. A Necron Tomb could awaken without warning dangerously close to the Craftworld. The Eldar's resources are finite and ever-dwindling, so they must choose their actions very carefully.

What do you guys think?

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Sounds great and makes me want this really really badly.

 

The eldar just deserve their own RPG book - and if it was only 1 core book.

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As hilarious as Paranoia In Space would be, the Eldar probably have the most RPG potential of all the xenos races. They look almost human since they're essentially elves in space. In my experience, elves are the most popular race in the most well-known RPG line of all time (you guessed it, D&D), so there's quite a lot of potential. Eldar society is highly regimented into various Paths (Warrior, Seer, Wanderer, etc), and individual Eldar typically walk many Paths during their long lives. If this sounds a lot like RPG classes, you're thinking what I'm thinking.

I imagine an Eldar RPG working like Reverse Dark Heresy. Instead of investigating/purging heretics and conspiracies as an Inquisitor and his Acolytes, the players play as a Farseer and steer the events of the galaxy to ensure the survival of their craftworld. The GM could present the Farseer with a vision of a catastrophe to come: "You see the destruction of Iyanden by an Ork Waaagh! originating in the Charadon system. What steps will you take to prevent this?" The players would craft a ploy of manipulation (the more devious the better) to thwart this fate, then perform missions of diplomacy/sabotage/assassination/outright war to put their plan into action. This would be a very different style of game than Dark Heresy -- instead of investigating evil plots, the players would play the factions of the galaxy against each other like an elaborate game of chess.

However, things wouldn't always go smoothly for the players. A powerful Chaos Sorceror, Space Marine Librarian, or psychic Inquisitor could have similar portents and move to stop the players from executing their plans. The consequences of the players' actions could also come back to haunt them in the future. Perhaps the Imperial hive world that broke an Ork Waaagh! would find its strength depleted and fall to the forces of Chaos. This can throw a serious monkey wrench into the players' well-crafted plans and force them to improvise. A Necron Tomb could awaken without warning dangerously close to the Craftworld. The Eldar's resources are finite and ever-dwindling, so they must choose their actions very carefully.

What do you guys think?

This is exactly what I was thinking! I would play the crap out of this game.

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Although  would have no interest in it myself, I have to agree than Eldar would be the logical 'next game' in the WH40KRP line. They are distinct enough that they would definitely need a stand-alone game, unlike some other suggestions that have been made in other threads over the years, which are basically just 'settings' and could be played with existing rule sets (Necromunda would just be Dark Heresy as gang war, the Horus Heresy could be adapted using Deathwatch rules, etc.). Plus a setting-specific Craftworld can provide a good excuse to violate fluff if necessary: members of different Warrior Paths don't normally work side-by-side as a party, but Craftwold Whatever is dying, and desperate times require desperate measures...!

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Are the different Paths really opposed to working together, though? Or is that merely a distinction due to the way the units are set up in the Tabletop game.  As I've said I have no experience with any of the fiction, but are the Warrior Paths so strict as to preclude cooperation except in the most desperate of times even without the involvement of a Farseer? 

It seems to me if a Farseer said he needed a group of Eldar from disparate backgrounds to work together for the good of the Craftworld, even one that isn't necessarily dying, most Eldar would cooperate.

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I kinda feel that not allowing anyone to play xenos because they are "too alien" is a cop-out. People are going to play them however they want regardless of what the material says. Also, there has to be a way to balance them out with humans even if it means creating a new system. Xenos may be exceptional at something in particular but they can't be superior in all ways considering humanity has defeated them in combat and thwarted their conspiracies on many occasions. 

 

Why build up their popularity through TT and stories but not allow people to play their favorite xeno race in an RPG?

khimaera and Snowman0147 like this

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Xenos may be exceptional at something in particular but they can't be superior in all ways considering humanity has defeated them in combat and thwarted their conspiracies on many occasions. 

 

Xenos have one disadvantage compared to the humans: lack of numbers. But I don't know how you can represent this in an RPG... 

Edited by AtoMaki
knasserII likes this

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I think there would need to be substantial changes to the system scaling to represent Eldar characters simply because they are so much more skilled and agile than all but the mightiest humans. Note that in the beta, standard Eldar Guardians have Unnatural Agility 3, Unnatural Perception 1, Stealth +20, Dodge +10, and Acrobatics +30! And they're the Craftworld's civilian defence force, not professional soldiers!

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Well, what rank are those guardians? Do we really know how experienced they are? In my opinion, it's about perspective. Those civil defense force soldiers might have 200 years under their belt. Their ranking system may also be completely different.

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Well, what rank are those guardians? Do we really know how experienced they are? In my opinion, it's about perspective. Those civil defense force soldiers might have 200 years under their belt. Their ranking system may also be completely different.

 

They are the Eldar's equivalent of the humble Guardsman. Slightly leaning towards the lowly Conscript. 

 

Guardians are commoners who are forced to take up arms because of some big conflict that endangers their Craftworld. They have almost zero military experience and no ranks or anything like that. They are pretty much an irregular force, a militia. Once the fighting is over they go back to their civilian life and IIRC they must give their weapons/armour back too.

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Well, FFG might have to re-imagine the Eldar to make them playable especially if they were originally not intended to be so.

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Well, FFG might have to re-imagine the Eldar to make them playable especially if they were originally not intended to be so.

 

They don't have to. In the 40k universe, the stamp on humanity is "Sucks to be you!". FFG can just play this card and make it clear that being a human is not a good thing when your companions are people like the ancient Eldar. When done right, this could be actually even more interesting than a "balanced" race selection.

Elior likes this

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Well, FFG might have to re-imagine the Eldar to make them playable especially if they were originally not intended to be so.

 

They don't have to. In the 40k universe, the stamp on humanity is "Sucks to be you!". FFG can just play this card and make it clear that being a human is not a good thing when your companions are people like the ancient Eldar. When done right, this could be actually even more interesting than a "balanced" race selection.

 

 

Chances are that the Eldar have some major flaw somewhere. It could be their underestimation of humanity by way of their ego or something.

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IMO Eldar would actually make the most sense as a supplement for Rogue trader since they live in space. A book similar to "The Soul Reaver" but featuring Craftworld or Eldar Corsairs would be appropriate (I'm actually kind of surprised and disappointed that "Fallen Suns" did not go in this direction!)

 

That said, I agree with Gaunt that the next "big thing" will be a Revamp of Rogue trader to the OW ruleset. I would welcome this personally as RT is by far my favorite game of the series (Despite Dark heresy actually having the most and best background material.) :)

GauntZero, Elior and Tenebrae like this

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Honestly, I think we've reached the maximum amount of 40k lines FFG can support. In fact I believe they've over extended. Black Crusade has NOT gotten alot of love and the supplements, although good, do need alot of work to make them scale properly. (Hello flesh shaper). Most likely the'll redo RT or DW with the new system.

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