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GauntZero

Wishlist for future companion supplement

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So guyz,

 

The core book is about to be finished.

 

What things are you missing most ?

 

What things would you like to be focussed on in a companion book (which will probably be the next rule supplement published) ?

 

To keep it in a scope that stays compact, please name the 5 things that you would love to see most.

 

My list contains:

 

1.) playable non-humans (Xenos, Ratlings, Ogryns)

 

2.) Additional narrative Psy Powers

 

3.) Additional talents (especially a lot of DH1 talents that got lost)

 

4.) Additional options for home worlds, backgrounds & roles

 

5.) additional elite packages (incl. Sororitas with Faith talents)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1.) Modifiers for influence system (Similar to original ascension)

 

2.) Additional non-adepta backgrounds (Civilian, Imp. navy, etc.)

 

3.) Civilian vehicle design template.

 

4.) Additional homeworlds: (frontier world, fortress world, etc.)

 

5.) Elite advances (Non broken please!) for Temple assassins and other "Advanced" specialties. 

 

That's what comes to mind right now at least!

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Xenos and other crazy things can wait, all I want is a big fat version of the Inquisitor's handbook (one of my favorite Supplements ever made).

 

1. New Homeworlds, Careers and maybe even a couple more roles.

 

2. New Elite Advances

 

3. MORE GEAR. Give us stuff for all kinds of worlds, talk about them, things you may encounter, the IH was great for this

 

4. Improved Item/Weapon Customization rules. This had a good "first try" in Hammer of the Emperor, yet there aren't enough options and not all options work for a lot of weapons or are not well explained how they would combine with a weapon. Yet being able to just roll up "looted" items the PCs find, or visiting a shop and hearing the proprietor try to sell you on this uncommon gun he has (which would most likely fail with the current acquiring rules) can add some great stuff. It especially needs a list of random names and fluff you can make for it. Without that, the system isn't as fun.

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I agree with most of these suggestions, so rather than repeat what's already been said, I'll make my wish philosophical: my wish for DH2 supplements is that they don't exhibit the runaway Power Creep that later DH1 supplements did.

 

I suppose I should clarify what kind of Power Creep that I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to later supplements focusing on higher power levels, as long as it's part of a well-thought-out progression that is calculated to stay true to established 40K lore. I have no problem with withholding stats for heavy weapons, high-end armour, and elite character options like Temple Assassins from the main rulebook, since starting players won't need that info on Day 1, and instaed releasing them in later supplements. That makes perfect sense.

 

The Power Creep that I object to in DH1 is the inclusion of elements that exist no where else in 40K lore which render iconic 40K elements statistically obsolete. Imperial Guardsmen, for example, are a key element of the 40Kverse, and thus any game representing itself as the 'baseline' WH40K Role Playing Game needs to have viable Imperial Guardsmen as a player option. The DH1 supplement The Lathe Worlds, however, introduces the 'Crimson Guard' as a new PC career: equal or better (usually much better) in every way to Guardsmen, with no balancing disadvantages, they render iconic Guardsmen statistically obsolete, a 'sucker's bet' that simply can't compete with something that exists no-where in the 40K canon.

 

There were some stirrings of this early on in DH1, of course, when the Inquisitor's Handbook introduced a bunch of variant weapons, some of which were poorly balanced and quickly became the statistically 'right' weapons to get. But it ramped up dramatically in later supplements, as writers found most of the 'low hanging fruit' already plucked and thus simply came up with more powerful versions of existing elements to meet their contractual obligations, without regard to the fact that in rendering baseline 40K elements statistically obsolete, they were taking the game further and further away from the established 40K universe- and since people only play WH40KRP because of the popularity of the established 40K universe, I see this as a Very Bad Thing. If the classic 40K elements from the most popular Black Library novels are no longer viable choices, and players have to choose things that exist in a new supplement and no where else in order to be competitive, then the game is failing at its' only reason for existing: translating the 40Kverse into RPG format.

 

This concludes my rant...

Cymbel, Cail, Lynata and 4 others like this

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That is a great point, though some superior weapons is okay, as long as the price and rarity involves that. Sadly some GMs don't read the flavor text, a PC getting a Nomad is going to be a big thing, more so than the 2,000 thrones would suggest. In fact, the most likely way to get one is to "loot" it from a noble, which is problematic, because they know every model they have made and they are each distinctive, certainly not a weapon for assassins, though others would see it as that. And then some guns were a little off, but barring some of the "Book of Judgement" items (like the massive shell shotgun that....arbites suddenly use for some reason? Stacking AP beyond reason?), it was never too bad....until the Lathe Worlds. Urgh, that book just leaves a foul taste in my mouth with how crazy some of it is. Some of it was usuable to an extent (social techie class was a neat idea, but they left it utterly unbalanced, I think I saw one or two cybernetics that weren't completely broken), but otherwise the book is a sad example of power creep.

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And then some guns were a little off, but barring some of the "Book of Judgement" items (like the massive shell shotgun that....arbites suddenly use for some reason? Stacking AP beyond reason?), it was never too bad....until the Lathe Worlds. Urgh, that book just leaves a foul taste in my mouth with how crazy some of it is. Some of it was usuable to an extent (social techie class was a neat idea, but they left it utterly unbalanced, I think I saw one or two cybernetics that weren't completely broken), but otherwise the book is a sad example of power creep.

 

Amen.

 

"Cool, I got the contract to write the Armoury section on the new Arbites sourcebook! Let's do some research... Arbites use Combat Shotguns and wear Carapace Armour- already included in the Core Rulebook. They have special Executioner Rounds- already included in Ascension. Manacles, cybermastiffs, web guns- already published elsewhere... Hrmmm.... deadline's coming up fast... oh, screw it, I'll just make up more powerful versions of existing stuff and cash my check!"

 

Emperor willing DH2 will avoid falling into this trap...

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I would have just taken the ascension stuff, given it a price, maybe make a better combat shotgun? Like the one in Hostile Acquisitions, shock baton, reliable, good mag, maybe list executioner rounds again, give them some gear based off IRL cop stuff (like the semi auto sniper rifle, I think that is based off the PSG-1). Let's show the special gear that Arbites armor has, voice amplifier, helmet flashlight, etc. Add some fun investigation helping gear and THERE you have most of it done.

 

Maybe a LEETLE bit of power creep here, but guess what, for top Arbites gear that is hard to get without raiding their armory should be.

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Depending on how much different New Heresy’s chapter on Inquisitors is, and considering Old Heresy I got a good idea already, I would like something more in-line with the canon of the Holy Inquisition of Mankind.

 

I know this is been here since Old Heresy but its always struck me as comically inaccurate that the Players start out as people that may have no idea who ’their Inquisitor’ is and yet still are allowed to run around declaring themselves Inquisitorial servants (and still be taken seriously, by and large). Considering that Acolytes are meant to be covert-ops kind of people when on their own, and when they don’t have their Inquisitor’s Rosetta of approval, kind of makes the Inquisition look incredibly desperate, and stupid. By all marks the Players are not Acolytes at all but simply ‘hired hands’ working for one, all Acolytes know who their boss is (otherwise others could masquerade as them and could cause unbelievable amounts of trouble).

 

Yes, I know about ‘acceptable breaks’ and all that…but still it look more like a bunch of poor Rogue Trader characters than a motley group of nobodies (by the vast standards of the Imperium) working for the one of the biggest bogymen of the Imperium (an Inquisitor).

 

…I guess what I would be asking for would be like a Hard Mode version of Dark Heresy, were the Players know they aren’t playing super-acolytes and have to either have their Inquisitor present to invoke his/her/it’s Authority, or do everything on their own strength and cunning. Ye` know focus on building connections on a more personal (more local) level; maybe limiting Influence to acquiring local information, loans, support, etc.

 

Maybe bring back a version Thrones (since there is some demand for it) since individuals don’t work for free (and anything else would be in the areas of Intimidation or Diplomacy) with a table to show the variation of in each category (ex: Common Availability: 40 thrones - 80 thrones); with the final price being controlled by whether the GM thinks the item fits in the low or high end of the price zone. That kind of stuff.

 

Alternatively something to bring the Players closer to their Inquisitor, making them truer to source material…maybe take a leaf out Rogue Trader and have a “Build Your Inquisitor” chapter that can either be done by the GM privately or as group effort. With variable factors like Archetype (Warrior, Sage, Pysker, Jack-of-Trades), Ordo (Malleus, Xenos, Hereticus), Spiritual ideology (Puritan, Radical, Moderate), Personal Philosophy (based in part by Spiritual ideology with everything from Thorianism to Xanthism and all things between and beyond). etc.

 

 

Oh and a lot of material for the Tau Empire, so there can be adventures that don’t ‘need’ to end with everybody getting shot at the end (most tend to end in deamons, broadlords, shape-shifters, and nercons; so it would be a nice change of pace).

doomande, Cymbel and Lynata like this

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I agree with most of these suggestions, so rather than repeat what's already been said, I'll make my wish philosophical: my wish for DH2 supplements is that they don't exhibit the runaway Power Creep that later DH1 supplements did.

 

I suppose I should clarify what kind of Power Creep that I'm talking about. I'm not opposed to later supplements focusing on higher power levels, as long as it's part of a well-thought-out progression that is calculated to stay true to established 40K lore. I have no problem with withholding stats for heavy weapons, high-end armour, and elite character options like Temple Assassins from the main rulebook, since starting players won't need that info on Day 1, and instaed releasing them in later supplements. That makes perfect sense.

 

The Power Creep that I object to in DH1 is the inclusion of elements that exist no where else in 40K lore which render iconic 40K elements statistically obsolete. Imperial Guardsmen, for example, are a key element of the 40Kverse, and thus any game representing itself as the 'baseline' WH40K Role Playing Game needs to have viable Imperial Guardsmen as a player option. The DH1 supplement The Lathe Worlds, however, introduces the 'Crimson Guard' as a new PC career: equal or better (usually much better) in every way to Guardsmen, with no balancing disadvantages, they render iconic Guardsmen statistically obsolete, a 'sucker's bet' that simply can't compete with something that exists no-where in the 40K canon.

 

There were some stirrings of this early on in DH1, of course, when the Inquisitor's Handbook introduced a bunch of variant weapons, some of which were poorly balanced and quickly became the statistically 'right' weapons to get. But it ramped up dramatically in later supplements, as writers found most of the 'low hanging fruit' already plucked and thus simply came up with more powerful versions of existing elements to meet their contractual obligations, without regard to the fact that in rendering baseline 40K elements statistically obsolete, they were taking the game further and further away from the established 40K universe- and since people only play WH40KRP because of the popularity of the established 40K universe, I see this as a Very Bad Thing. If the classic 40K elements from the most popular Black Library novels are no longer viable choices, and players have to choose things that exist in a new supplement and no where else in order to be competitive, then the game is failing at its' only reason for existing: translating the 40Kverse into RPG format.

 

This concludes my rant...

 

9.5/10 

Would read rant again. 

This really sums it up nice and polite.

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The problem is: big weapons sale well I guess.

That means there will and also should be big and mean and extraordinary weapons in new supplements.

BUT - and thats the big BUT: the tricky thing to do is balance them out in a way not making the old stuff obsolete. And not only by making them 1 step rarer, but by giving them various downsides.

Why not create 2-3 negative weapon traits to impose on weapons that are otherwise too imbalanced ?

Things like "heavy recoil" (even braced they are harder to fire), "remarkable" (reduces subtlety dramatically), "fragile" (drop it and it is damaged or even destroyed, a called shot on it has the same result) or "sophisticated (X)" (needs Intelligence X to use it correctly)

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One of the first segments I turn to in a new book is the armory, but I don't go looking for the "Biggest and Baddest", rather what fun weapons are there, the stories behind them.

 

On that note, too many special rules to use a weapon just can make a weapon overcomplicated or annoying.

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One of the first segments I turn to in a new book is the armory, but I don't go looking for the "Biggest and Baddest", rather what fun weapons are there, the stories behind them.

I agree, but then I come to this forum and are told that "weapons must be balanced!" and "Why not just remove bows and crossbows, they are mechanically inferior so no-one would ever take them!"

And this often by people who then lecture us on how characters shouldn't be punished for being different. *sigh*

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That's a strawman if I've ever seen one. I haven't seen anyone advocate for all weapons being totally equivalent. There should just be a reason for someone to take a specific weapon other than 'it suits my backstory'. If you're going to provide choices, there should be a decent reason to pick any of the options given.

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Balancing is important, there shouldn't be just awful options and while inferior choices will always exist, they should have something to balance them out. Like a bow and arrow can be metal free and with certain tech, able to be broken down easily. Firing it is virtually silent and you can coat the arrows in poison (even make them mono?). Needle Weapons are inferior, but they fill their role of a better silent poisoned weapon. And then there are guns like the "disposable pistol" (side note, the only ubiquitous item I have seen in the 40k rpg books so far), it is crap mechanically, no doubt about it. However, it does more than that. It is a cheap weapon anyone can buy (without being as bad as the volg mercy killer), it makes a great weapon for an assassin to use then toss away, it is great for survival kits for PCs who crash landed. Remember, not all weapons are for PCs to use, I love seeing the "prole" weapons in IH, like the nail gun, ripper clip autopistols, scrap cannons.

 

I suppose my main issue is with weapons that are just plain superior with no drawbacks. Not even ones of fluff (like Nomads being produced in small amounts, each unique).

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That's a strawman if I've ever seen one. I haven't seen anyone advocate for all weapons being totally equivalent. There should just be a reason for someone to take a specific weapon other than 'it suits my backstory'. If you're going to provide choices, there should be a decent reason to pick any of the options given.

It's true that no-one was advocating all weapons being totally identical. Did I claim that?

I _want_ inferior choices to be available, as I've stated elsewhere.

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Why?

 

Why not? All games need inferior choices as you can't arm every NPC with useful weapons and in some situations, the GM can spice up the story with some compulsory inferior choices for the PCs. 

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Avaliability is as much a balancing factor as anything else. Crappy gear has high availability. There, no need to introduce needless imbalance. 

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Sometimes PCs can't have their custom gear, like my Arbites with her customized handcannon, a techie with their favorite laspistol, the guardsman or merc with their OPERATOR's autogun. Just like though my Arbites may own carapace, they can't always wear the full suit. It can be fun to be forced to use the "crap" gear because whatever reason there may be to force the situation.

 

As well as the classic, "I want to make mooks, they can't be as well armed as the PCs nor give the PCs good weapons after being killed" reason.

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Aside from agreeing with AtoMaki, here's a few other thoughts.

 

I want to be able to have large groups on inferior opponents. For preference, not just with poor stats, but with objectively inferior equipment as well. Could I just use more easily available equipment? Yes, but sometimes it just doesn't get the point across.

 

In particular, I want to be able to to introduce vapid aristocrats with gear that is mechanically worthless but in-game valuable. One example could be a gilded, gem encrusted dueling pistol with inaccurate (after all, the point of the duel is not to kill your opponent but to prove your courage/his cowardice) and only a single shot. A toy which costs more than many acolytes see in a year but which is mechanically worthless.

 

And sometimes I want to be able to dump acolytes on a feudal world, with no high tech gear, possibly even with orders to blend in. Which means primitive weapons only, and no fancy explosive quarrels either.

 

Avaliability is as much a balancing factor as anything else. Crappy gear has high availability. There, no need to introduce needless imbalance. 

..and I personally think this is an extremely poor argument. In an industrial society, guns are going to be orders of magnitude more available than eg. crossbows, not because crossbows are an objectively better weapon, but exactly because thy are inferior. The idea that more easily available means worse is ridiculous.

Factories and mass-production means that the most available option should be the most effective, in the sense of price per effect, or more colloquially "most bang for the buck".

Even the Imperium of Man impliments this (to some degree), by mass producing cheap lasguns for cheap soldiers and more expensive bolters for more expensive superhuman genetically modified beakies.

 

Which is also why I oppose the mixing of availability and price which is the unfortunate effect of the new influence system. That was a bad system in RT, but there it made some sort of sense that "You can afford it, question is only if it's available."

segara82, Cymbel and Snowman0147 like this

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Tenebrae, on the noble aspect, a PC of mine got challenged by a noble who said they could shoot better than me, I took them up on the offer and wagered my gun. He accepted and a lot of tense rolls later, I won. But several days later I got a package delivered to me, inside was an ornate Howdah "Flametongue" Pistol. For those who don't know a 2 shot gun firing 1d10+6 but primitive (double armor, not damage cap) and exotic ammo (20 thrones a shot). So a perfect example of an expensive but mechanically useless gun, nice as a token though.

 

And our PCs were once on a feudal world where we had to blend in, which limited us for a while (except for the moritat).

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Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals. 

More...everything. I want a player handbook, even though I'm GM'ing. More stuff for character creation, planets, backgrounds, roles. The more the merrier. This part of the book has to be balanced with previous stuff. For reasons Adeptus-B mentions. Honestly, I don't care if they expand on the fluff but they shouldn't have power creep in character generation. 

More items, both gear and weapons. There might be a bit of power creep here, as long as those are designed for higher ranking acolytes. More variants of the items already in the core book is also welcome as it gives the players a wide selection to pick from. Especially items/gear and not just weapons and armour. How to use influence in a wider variety of narrative manners would also be helpful. They can summon powerful NPC's, but what if they don't want to play a different character and simply call in a small squad of npc's to help them do the grunt work? Or informants!

More elite advances. I love the idea but the ones in the core rulebook are so boring or silly that I've banned my players from using them outright. Then again certain talents are also barred from use. Like Adamantine Faith and Infused Knowledge. But more talents would be great.

 

PS: When it comes to inferior gear etc: I love when players go for a certain style in their characters. Maybe a gun slinger, or a lasnut. It doesn't matter. But if they want to minmax, then so will I.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

Edited by Ghaundan
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