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Desslok

The Impending Death of the Expanded Universe! (thread 2.0 because I'm a dork)

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@ JonahHex: Maybe the sentiment comes from fans of KOTOR2? Ironically, the Old Republic stuff in general is something I'd be perfectly happy to seen thrown out.  :P

 

I do believe though that the further back we go, the likely safer a piece of canon may be... whereas EU stuff too near the movies is ripe for picking through, and of course everything post-Endor is under review.

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To each their own, but folks who don't like the Old Republic are in the minority. The novels and comics sell... and I for one love it. Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fiction. A 25,000 year history of space travel has been implied since the very beginning. ("For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights have been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.")

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To each their own, but folks who don't like the Old Republic are in the minority. The novels and comics sell... and I for one love it. Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fiction. A 25,000 year history of space travel has been implied since the very beginning. ("For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights have been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.")

 

JH, I liked the Old Republic, it's perhaps the only part of the EU I actually do like.  It plays on all the tropes that made  me love the films, but without the canon characters, so that my PC and her friends actually had a chance to breathe, to make the world our own.

 

The act of terrorism perpetrated on the fans by Bioware, not so much.  I'd be quite happy if Darth Canon was retconned. 

Edited by Maelora

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Actually, I'm mildly astonished that the original films aren't being rebooted.  I assumed that was the whole point of getting Abrams on board.  I mean, who wouldn't want see Shia LaBeouf as Luke, Tom Cruise as Han, Kristen Stewart as Leia?

 

And personally I doubt we'll see much of the new stuff in the FFG game.  They made a shrewd move emphasizing the original films, and even then the EoE book is very 'canon-light' - no stats for the movie characters, etc.  That's a safe bet for the majority of fans - yes, the EU, prequels, KotOR etc have their fans, by the vast majority of 'casual' SW fans like me feel most comfortable and familiar with the originals.  

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To each their own, but folks who don't like the Old Republic are in the minority. The novels and comics sell... and I for one love it. Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fiction. A 25,000 year history of space travel has been implied since the very beginning. ("For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights have been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.")

 

JH, I liked the Old Republic, it's perhaps the only part of the EU I actually do like.  It plays on all the tropes that made  me love the films, but without the canon characters, so that my PC and her friends actually had a chance to breathe, to make the world our own.

 

The act of terrorism perpetrated on the fans by Bioware, not so much.  I'd be quite happy if Darth Canon was retconned. 

 

Act of terrorism? Which do you mean?

In any case, I FULLY agree about the Old Republic being ripe ground for gaming with plenty of "breathing" room. Yet ANOTHER advantage of this huge timeline is that it has room for screw-ups. I haven't tried the MMO yet, but I'm likely going to give it a shot soon. I don't much do video games, but I watch the Holiday Special every year and I own an annual pass to Disney World just to ride Star Tours every weekend. I indulge in corny, "bad" stuff all the time lol. I'm not worried if Old Republic is dumb in some/many aspects... as a matter of fact knowing what's dumb shows me what to avoid in my own storytelling.

Hell, I'm even watching season one of Star Trek: TNG right now. SEASON ONE. Alternating between that and watching Adam West Batman with my equally insane roommate. 

I am a brave, brave man lol.

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To each their own, but folks who don't like the Old Republic are in the minority. The novels and comics sell... and I for one love it. Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fiction. A 25,000 year history of space travel has been implied since the very beginning. ("For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights have been guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic.")

A millenia-long history of space travel, the Jedi, and the concept of the Old Republic is a given... but as with Maelora I don't like so much of what else got chucked into the pre-movies time periods, so it's nice to see that you at least have the perspective that "at least that's plenty of room to store all the screwups."

Actually, I'm mildly astonished that the original films aren't being rebooted.  I assumed that was the whole point of getting Abrams on board.  I mean, who wouldn't want see Shia LaBeouf as Luke, Tom Cruise as Han, Kristen Stewart as Leia?

Admittedly my lack of regards for Abrams is because even if he's a Warsie, I don't trust him to bring out any of what you liked about the original trilogy... a tendency for "completely missed the point" tends to be what I don't like about fanboys in director's seats/writer's chairs.

 

Also, the earlier "Force Wuxia" talk was pejorative... but I seriously, seriously recommend reading the manhua "Blood and Steel"... not least since your own talk of your own take on the Jedi and your Sith sects -- that's right, I said sects -- reminded me of it, and you might one day give a look at the concept of "the government" and "the world of the Force" having a de facto staying out of each other's way... which would make the Force-wielder sects more like if not outright (part of) the Fringe.  :D

Edited by Chortles

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Actually, I'm mildly astonished that the original films aren't being rebooted.  I assumed that was the whole point of getting Abrams on board.  I mean, who wouldn't want see Shia LaBeouf as Luke, Tom Cruise as Han, Kristen Stewart as Leia?

 

And personally I doubt we'll see much of the new stuff in the FFG game.  They made a shrewd move emphasizing the original films, and even then the EoE book is very 'canon-light' - no stats for the movie characters, etc.  That's a safe bet for the majority of fans - yes, the EU, prequels, KotOR etc have their fans, by the vast majority of 'casual' SW fans like me feel most comfortable and familiar with the originals.  

See and I'm just of the opposite mind. I don't see how FFG can hope to hang onto the license if they don't embrace the new canon going forward and incorporate it.  This article only makes me think that even more with the canon purge.  Disney may not be re-booting the original films but they are definitely refreshing the IP.  It's going to be all SW starting at the end of 2015 for 6 years straight with the third trilogy and the backgrounder movies in between.

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Disney may not be re-booting the original films

And as far as Maelora, myself and presumably others are concerned, that's the part that matters because that's where the FFG books are centered on.

 

Don't you mean 'book'?  Because only one has actually been released.  No knowing what kind of fluff will or won't be included even in AoR at this point.

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Disney may not be re-booting the original films

And as far as Maelora, myself and presumably others are concerned, that's the part that matters because that's where the FFG books are centered on.

 

 

Agreed.

 

They have stated all three games will be set in this era. It's the era that the casual SW fans know the best, and the one that almost all fans are unified in their support of.  Makes a lot of sense.

 

Now, I wouldn't think it was a bad thing if they released splatbooks for other eras... KotOR, Legacy, prequels, sequels etc.

 

But it makes a a hell of a lot of business sense to set the game in the era that is most familiar to people. 

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Disney may not be re-booting the original films

And as far as Maelora, myself and presumably others are concerned, that's the part that matters because that's where the FFG books are centered on.

 

Don't you mean 'book'?  Because only one has actually been released.  No knowing what kind of fluff will or won't be included even in AoR at this point.

 

 

I don't think it will differ hugely from EoE in that regard.  

 

It will mention the movie characters in passing, and have a few pictures of them, and go into a bit more detail on Alliance High Command or whatever... But it will be set in the classic era and most likely be light on canon (no stats or missions involving fetching a new pair of shoes for Mon Mothma, etc.)

 

And it will have a sidebar saying 'yes, you can play Imperials if you want; it's not like we can stop you'. 

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I'd say rather that it's the "best for business" period to focus on, not least because it means that there is a focus to begin with, which is more than can be said for the WotC core rulebooks!

 

It's not like Disney, Fantasy Flight Games or Lucasfilm Licensing can stop Maelora from recasting the Jedi and Sith as splinter sects of a Force-wielding tradition with Lucas Lars as his own figure either, or myself from recasting Luke Skywalker as a former Rebel gone AWOL and turned lightsaber-wielding Force wielder with a rather different idea of what a Jedi means and who lopped off "a bit" of the Imperial hierarchy in the form of publicly assassinating Darth Vader and the Emperor with live holocam feeds running...

 

Maelora has elaborated on the former better than my pithy summary, but the latter? "Propaganda of the deed" writ galactic:D

Edited by Chortles

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Also, the earlier "Force Wuxia" talk was pejorative... but I seriously, seriously recommend reading the manhua "Blood and Steel"... not least since your own talk of your own take on the Jedi and your Sith sects -- that's right, I said sects -- reminded me of it, and you might one day give a look at the concept of "the government" and "the world of the Force" having a de facto staying out of each other's way... which would make the Force-wielder sects more like if not outright (part of) the Fringe.  :D

 

Good point; I shall do so!

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I'll guess we shall see moving forward.  This canon purge though I think is just the first step in Disney exerting more control over the IP and I think that is only likely to increase in the run up to the first film.  

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I'll guess we shall see moving forward.  This canon purge though I think is just the first step in Disney exerting more control over the IP and I think that is only likely to increase in the run up to the first film.  

That's a given, it's just a matter of our expectations based on our interpretations of prior trends.

 

Good point; I shall do so!

Better yet, no ki blasts and no wire-fu... just a Ming Dynasty-set tale of swords and martial arts, with the government and the world of martial arts co-existing in the same land but not intermingling, a martial artist 'humbling' himself before the Emperor (a fan of martial arts) by self-deprecatingly claiming that his personal prowess doesn't translate into ability at commanding an army*, and a "gentle" reminder by an imperial official that the martial art schools/sects not stepping on imperial prerogatives -- that is, not making a bid for political hegemony -- is why the government allows the sects and their blood feuds...

 

* In fairness, a number of pre-existing Star Wars EU works have made this point as well with the Jedi as well.

Edited by Chortles

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Is someone going to makes an "Edge of the Dynasty" wuxia RPG conversion? :-)

Incidentally, I don't think Disney is pouring money into the KotOR MMO as JonahHex asserts. I think in point of fact they are collecting money in the form of licensing fees paid by Electronic Arts.

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Actually, I'm mildly astonished that the original films aren't being rebooted.  I assumed that was the whole point of getting Abrams on board.  I mean, who wouldn't want see Shia LaBeouf as Luke, Tom Cruise as Han, Kristen Stewart as Leia? 

 

Kristen Stewart as Leia?? Does that mean Jedi will sparkle?!?!?

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or myself from recasting Luke Skywalker as a former Rebel gone AWOL and turned lightsaber-wielding Force wielder with a rather different idea of what a Jedi means and who lopped off "a bit" of the Imperial hierarchy in the form of publicly assassinating Darth Vader and the Emperor with live holocam feeds running...

:D

 

This right here is why I love role-playing!

 

If we want to run things differently, Disney can't kick down our doors and seize our books.

 

Play it straight or make it all up - Star Wars is a huge sandbox and we can all enjoy it.  

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Oh great, we could use another troll. I mean Erikb has been so happy under his bridge lately!

 

Seriously dude? Just because someone doesn't share you're opinion he's a troll? I happen to not hate the prequels myself.

Nope, not at all what my point was. I don't hate the prequels either. Bit as tej French say "c'est la tone qui fait la musique".

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I'll guess we shall see moving forward.  This canon purge though I think is just the first step in Disney exerting more control over the IP and I think that is only likely to increase in the run up to the first film.  

 

But why would any of that affect a game set in the Classic Era anyway??? 

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I'll guess we shall see moving forward.  This canon purge though I think is just the first step in Disney exerting more control over the IP and I think that is only likely to increase in the run up to the first film.  

 

But why would any of that affect a game set in the Classic Era anyway??? 

 

It's not about the game, but part of how the owner of an IP, particularly a very profitable IP, defends it's rights is to exert control over all aspects of it's use by everyone.  You have to remember too there are parts of EoE that aren't just classic era movie in origin, there are terms in EoE from other sources than the movies.  The details matter when defending an IP, that's what I mean.  To think that FFG is going to publish F&D or for that matter even AoR, in the way they first conceived 2 or 3 years ago with this article's thrust as a backdrop just isn't realistic.  Disney will be paying attention to the details.  I'm sure AoR will come out but it's fluff will just have been measured against the new canon standard.  I'm not looking at starting the back and forth again, but anyone that thinks FFG is going to release F&D in 2015 and not have factored in the new films and that Disney won't have a hand in content is just not standing on the same planet as me.

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Is someone going to makes an "Edge of the Dynasty" wuxia RPG conversion? :-)

The funny thing is that in the world of Blood and Steel, the martial arts sects/schools are the Fringe, even if they're usually so far removed from "the outside world" (that is, the government's prerogative) that they might be mistaken by outsiders.

It's not about the game, but part of how the owner of an IP, particularly a very profitable IP, defends it's rights is to exert control over all aspects of it's use by everyone.  You have to remember too there are parts of EoE that aren't just classic era movie in origin, there are terms in EoE from other sources than the movies.  The details matter when defending an IP, that's what I mean.  To think that FFG is going to publish F&D or for that matter even AoR, in the way they first conceived 2 or 3 years ago with this article's thrust as a backdrop just isn't realistic.  Disney will be paying attention to the details.  I'm sure AoR will come out but it's fluff will just have been measured against the new canon standard.  I'm not looking at starting the back and forth again, but anyone that thinks FFG is going to release F&D in 2015 and not have factored in the new films and that Disney won't have a hand in content is just not standing on the same planet as me.

On AoR, I believe that FFG probably had at least some heads-up and that this may have already been under way to an unreported extent by the time we found out about it, so presumably that understanding (that this would be coming or in progress) was already accounted for in earlier development of AoR... that is to say, so long as Disney is leaving the movies themselves alone, which many of us seem to be taken as a premise, then the overarching framework would be intact... and that "overarching framework" and as importantly the game rules based on that framework is what so many of us care about more than specific details.

 

Admittedly I believe that some of us are taking a similar belief on F&D as well without disputing the idea that Disney will have a hand in F&D content...

 

Disclaimer: This is from someone who'd be perfectly happy to see the idea of the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel trilogy and the Forms tossed out wholesale... not least because the concept of the Forms to me doesn't scream lightsaber skill but rather "McDojo".

Edited by Chortles

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