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Desslok

The Impending Death of the Expanded Universe! (thread 2.0 because I'm a dork)

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

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I won't miss most of the EU, only KOTOR really.  I despise the whole vong story arc and after (except the Legacy comic with Cade), and the main reason is:  it's all derivative, and they seem to be seeking too many "answers".  For all his faults in dialogue and what-not, Lucas seemed to be just about the only one bringing new things to the table...or rather, he seemed to be able to inspire his team to handle whatever oddball thing he comes up with...and yet simultaneously remain grounded in the familiar while deepening the spiritual mystery.

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My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

 

 

 

I would say that it's unlikely that WotC would pick it up again, seeing how they voluntary let it go in the first because it was prohibitively expensive (and, from what I hear, LFL was a pain in the ass to deal with - approvals and whatnot). Now the pain in the ass thing will probably have changed under the new regime, but I cant imagine that the pricetag would. If it was not cost effective for them during the Episode 1-3 run, I doubt they'd try again in the 7-9 era.

Edited by Desslok

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

I'm sure when they obtained it there was a sales pitch from FFG of what they wanted to do with the title.  Since Disney didn't nuke it promptly on buying the IP I would imagine they will at least let it run through F&D.  I can see Disney wanting to coordinate F&D's release and content as a marketing tool for the films maybe.

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

 

Or Disney just buys FFG......they've got a pretty extensive IP library and with an established board/tabletop/rpg company to develop those genre into games in house might be an option.

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So the questions is will this be the nuclear option or the surgical strike. The latter takes more time and in some ways limits the future. But the previous reduces the value of the property. Also having something to pull from gives it more life and history. I think they will knock off series and books to keep it easy. Some of the minor detail in the old WEG is not going to bother them. Bet FFG would not mind all the WEG being killed, gives them more room.

 

As for FFG loosing this license any time soon, no. They are a big game company and Disney has shown willingness to kill what that they are not good at in house, like computer games.

 

AWAD- Is a Triumph like the Wild Die gone amok in WEG D6?

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

 

 

Chances are, they either use Marvel as a publisher for their next venture or they buy a game division.  Unlike EA and video games, most RPG companies are fairly small.  Then again, most profit margins for RPGs are fairly small so maybe (and hopefully) they stay with FFG.

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

 

 

I'm sure Disney knew this step was coming when they gave the license to FFG. I've noticed the EotE books have kept the EU aspects of their game to the bare minimum required, and the loss of any of it won't deeply affect the core game itself.

 

FFG will retain their license throughout this, and might even have an inside look at what's getting cut. I don't think the game will be negatively affected, nor do I think Disney would just yank the license away from them without warning or reason. That would probably violate the terms of the license, for one, and might invite a nasty lawsuit from FFG.

Edited by CaptainRaspberry

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If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

This crossed my mind as well... Does anyone know how long this license lasts anyway?

 

My only concern as far as this goes is that Disney offers up the license to the highest bidder. If that were to happen it would, in all likelihood, end up back with WotC what with their deep pockets. FFG has created a lot of buzz with their fantastic game. Combine that with the new movies and Star Wars is again a hot property in the RPG world.

 

 

I'm sure Disney knew this step was coming when they gave the license to FFG. I've noticed the EotE books have kept the EU aspects of their game to the bare minimum required, and the loss of any of it won't deeply affect the core game itself.

 

FFG will retain their license throughout this, and might even have an inside look at what's getting cut. I don't think the game will be negatively affected, nor do I think Disney would just yank the license away from them without warning or reason. That would probably violate the terms of the license, for one, and might invite a nasty lawsuit from FFG.

 

 

I am pretty sure he means when the initial license is up for renewal.

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Disney didn't give the license to FFG. It was still with Lucas at the time. And I am not saying that Disney will yank the license from FFG either. It is what happens when the license expires. Disney may allow FFG to renew. They may start their own RPG division or buy one to make it their own. Or they may take offers from many companies. They have plenty of options and are not beholden to anyone but their stockholders. That being said, having seen them take the reigns of Marvel and seem to be making a good go of it, I think they will be smart here too. You never know, though.

 

I doubt WotC would pass at the license if given the option. What with the new movies and exposure Star Wars is getting right now, it would be easy to jump on that bandwagon and take advantage of it.

Edited by mouthymerc

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I'm thinking these Disney films will be crap. Not Star Wars without George Lucas. I loved the prequels!

 

Didn't he write the story treatments though?  At least the broader themes will still be Lucas.  I would have preferred Whedon over Abrams as director though...

 

 

Man, I would have gone with Edward Wood over Abrams - I don't think much of the man's work.

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I'm thinking these Disney films will be crap. Not Star Wars without George Lucas. I loved the prequels!

 

Peers at you questioningly.

 

Hmm...  :ph34r:

 

 

Hey, some of us like the prequels, get over it :)  Actually, what I like best is the same thing I like about TCW:  the world-buliding.  I tune out the "okey-day" and "this is pod-racing" and "the kiss you shouldn't have given me" and do a swan-dive into the universe behind it.

 

I can't believe people don't appreciate that, or let the other stuff get in the way of their enjoyment of it.

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I'm thinking these Disney films will be crap. Not Star Wars without George Lucas. I loved the prequels!

 

Peers at you questioningly.

 

Hmm...  :ph34r:

 

 

Hey, some of us like the prequels, get over it :)  Actually, what I like best is the same thing I like about TCW:  the world-buliding.  I tune out the "okey-day" and "this is pod-racing" and "the kiss you shouldn't have given me" and do a swan-dive into the universe behind it.

 

I can't believe people don't appreciate that, or let the other stuff get in the way of their enjoyment of it.

 

I like seeing more SW of course, but I think someone forgot to tell the actors to act in the prequels.  TCWs were stories that I hadn't read about in interviews with Lucas 15 years prior unlike the prequels.  There are elements I liked about the prequels, but the god awful performances really really get in the way.  Honestly the TCW voice actors deserve academy awards compared to the prequels.

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I'm thinking these Disney films will be crap. Not Star Wars without George Lucas. I loved the prequels!

 

Didn't he write the story treatments though?  At least the broader themes will still be Lucas.  I would have preferred Whedon over Abrams as director though...

 

 

Man, I would have gone with Edward Wood over Abrams - I don't think much of the man's work.

 

 

I don't know ... I got a very "21st century pulp adventure" vibe from Abrams' Star Trek. I think that ought to serve New Star Wars well. So long as the art pays its homage to Ralph McQuarrie, I think I'd be a very happy fanboy.

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Oh great, we could use another troll. I mean Erikb has been so happy under his bridge lately!

 

Seriously dude? Just because someone doesn't share you're opinion he's a troll? I happen to not hate the prequels myself.

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Honestly, I am expecting some of the EU to not exist while others may not become movies but will be lore in the background to help new stories they plan out.

If those parts of the EU are adapted as movies, doesn't that automatically make their movie versions canon anyway?  ;)

My point is this: why is everyone so worried?

Because I don't respect J. J. Abrams' work nor do I trust him to get and incorporate what was actually attractive about the prior Star Wars trilogy but rather from him I expect something more... Michael Bay? (As far as Into Darkness, my favorite review would be the one that called Starfleet itself an evil entity and the cast evil for sticking around.) Then again, I have to admit that I mostly fear that his work would actually resemble the prequels far too much...

 

Supposedly he was more of a Warsie than a Trekkie and that's reflected in what That Blasted Samophlange described, "The new movies have really good actors and action, but they do lack gge hopful optimism of the future of humanity. The rebooted timeline is closer to the feel of the original Star Wars."

I don't know ... I got a very "21st century pulp adventure" vibe from Abrams' Star Trek.

Thanks for what I didn't like about AbramsTrek, I guess? Then again, this is coming from someone whose preferred Trek is mid-to-later TNG.

Hey, some of us like the prequels, get over it  :)  Actually, what I like best is the same thing I like about TCW:  the world-buliding.  I tune out the "okey-day" and "this is pod-racing" and "the kiss you shouldn't have given me" and do a swan-dive into the universe behind it.

 

I can't believe people don't appreciate that, or let the other stuff get in the way of their enjoyment of it.

What you may not realize is that for some of us, it IS "the universe behind it" that IS our biggest disagreement with the prequels... not just the depicting of "The Childhood and Whiny Pubescence of Darth Vader, Plus Force Wuxia", but the fact that that is deemed to have been what did happen in the pre-Imperial galaxy.

 

The funny thing about this, I confess, is that while one might think that that's because it retroactively makes Anakin/Vader a pathetic figure -- and in making Anakin Skywalker come off pathetic, it puts a severe twist on Luke's own character arc -- the Essential Guide to Warfare author pointed out that Vader was already something of a pathetic figure in the original trilogy in an absolutely AWESOME post:

I love West End Games, but I think they erred by mischaracterizing Vader and the role he plays in A New Hope. WEG bills Vader as the Emperor’s representative, looking over the shoulder of the technocrats — Galaxy Guide 1 describes him as "the epitome of the Emperor’s New Order. He is the tangible evil that the people of the galaxy can see and fear."

I think that’s a good summary of Vader’s role in the popular imagination, but a poor summary of his role in Episode IV — and unfortunately, that summary shaped the portrayal of Vader and key events in the Expanded Universe, closing off a number of very interesting storytelling possibilities in favor of more obvious fare.

Vader is a faintly pathetic figure in Episode IV, and indeed in the entire classic trilogy. Trapped in an ambulatory iron lung, he’s "more machine than man," his Jedi acrobatics decayed into clumsy hammer blows, his very existence mocked by sneering careerists like Motti. And Tarkin treats him like an underling — he calls him "Vader" and orders him around.

Now, recall that when A New Hope took shape, Emperor Palpatine was more a Nixonian politician than a Sith Lord, out of touch and controlled by bureaucrats, and the Star Wars novelization says Tarkin’s ambition is to be Emperor. Now we can see Vader’s more likely role: With the Emperor shut away and out of touch, he’s been sidelined as a Sith relic and is trying to ride Tarkin’s coattails back to power. Tarkin sees Vader as a useful henchman, but clearly hasn’t made him any promises, which is why Motti feels free to challenge him so publicly and brazenly.

The roles played by Vader and Palpatine evolve and change as the classic trilogy evolves — by The Empire Strikes Back Palpatine seems clearly in charge and has some connection to the Force (a development I found startling as an 11-year-old), and Vader is much more influential. But the basic throughline of their story is still there. Vader tries to betray his master by playing a double game in The Empire Strikes Back. He does betray him — though for very different reasons — in Return of the Jedi. So why assume he’s loyal in A New Hope?

Which makes both Tarkin’s characterization and the context of the Death Star briefing more clear: Tarkin burns to be Emperor, and the meeting he’s convened comes very, very close to being a gathering of coup plotters. Motti is all but drunk with power, Tagge’s doubts stem more from logistics than loyalty, and the others are either aides or non-entities. (Well, there’s Yularen, but in 1977 he was just the guy in white.) The Death Star is now operational, and the Senate is gone, removing a check on the power of governors such as Tarkin. (The radio drama, indeed, has Motti urging Tarkin to supplant the Emperor.)

So there’s Tarkin, a proud son of the backwater world of Eriadu, in control of "the ultimate power in the universe." What does he do with that power? He doesn’t destroy what he thinks is the headquarters of the Rebel base. Instead, he incinerates a major Core world. On whose orders? And if Tarkin hadn’t been distracted by infiltrators carrying the plans for the Death Star, where would he have taken his battle station next? My guess is Coruscant, for a showdown with Palpatine.

Now think about the other questions this raises. How does Vader go from an unwelcome henchman aboard the Death Star to the terror of the Imperial Navy? Is there a reckoning between him and Palpatine? How much does Palpatine know of the desires of men such as Tarkin and Motti? And how did the Death Star plans get to the Rebels anyway?

In that, I contend, there’s a great Star Wars tale that’s been partially obscured but could still be told — a marvelous story of ambition and betrayal, calculation and overconfidence. Maybe someday!

Throw out all canon, reboot the movies according to this.

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It's interesting to note - and especially relevant, given what forum this discussion is taking place in - that Fantasy Flight chose to hew so closely to the original three Start Wars films in creating the RPGs, the X-Wing miniatures game and the Star Wars card game. When I first took note of this as I read through the Empire of the Empire beta book, I thought it was a  very wise decision. I think that twice as much now.

 

My larger concern, and this is a different, albeit related, subject, is whether or not FFG will be able to renew its use of the Star Wars license. I don't know the corporate structure - does Disney have an in-house tabletop game publishing label or hobby game brand that they could look to shift Star Wars over to in the same manner they brought the comic books over from Dark Horse to in-house Marvel?

 

(Although, notably, Disney decided NOT to keep video games in-house and are instead going to license the property out. So maybe they just keep doing that with tabletop.)

Edited by Venthrac

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Truthbetold I imagine that that would come down to how long FFG was granted the license for to begin with by LFL, since Disney has to date left FFG well enough alone for so long now that FFG would still publicly plan and announce releases after the Disney shift.

 

But yes, hewing to the original trilogy was a great decision not only for "protection from canon revision" since they're the element that Disney is least likely to overrule (though the prequels are unfortunately probably just as protected), but also because it caters to fans who're only fans of the original trilogy or who discount major elements of the EU.

 

In particular, the FFG books -- and I believe the WEG core books also -- treat the overall idea of a Star Wars setting with a focus that just wasn't there in the WotC books, which from the beginning were burdened with having to account for and straddle both the original trilogy and each new prequel, whereas the WEG books basically stuck anything EU (including their own original creations) into splatbooks and FFG's books so far seem to be "timeless, the Galactic Civil War post-Yavin is just default" with starships -- and Jedi* -- as the only setting-specifc core element, and it seems like AoR's core book (irrespective of what was in the beta book) may be in the same vein, with NPCs quickly renamed and recharacterized without requiring statblock changes.

 

* Since we have rules for Force-users with no Jedi training required.

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...what in the world is making everyone think that KOTOR -- of all things -- is going to be reconned? There happens to be a MMORPG based on that aspect of the universe that Disney is pumping tons of money into. Also, I do believe the president of Disney itself mentioned they were "excited to have purchased over 20,000 years worth of stories" or something to that effect. They're not just gonna throw that in the trash; why would they?

Like Marvel Comics, Lucasfilm and Star Wars were able to grow as franchises in 2008, which if you recall wasn't a great year for Disney or practically any other American corporation. Disney already owns the world's single most successful multimedia franchise-- Disney Princesses, which little girls everywhere love -- and so they wanted to corner the market on young boys as well. Hence, they purchased Marvel and Star Wars; two massive franchises capable of actually GROWING during a major economic recession.

Compared to any other aspect of canon, I'd say the Old Republic (and pre-Old Republic) stuff is "safest". Not only is it immensely popular ---- and therefore valuable -- among fans, but the beautiful thing about these stories being set thousands of years apart is that there's always room to develop new stories and new situations that only have the connecting threads you WANT them to have. I'm not no betting man, but even I'd put real money on Darth Revan and Darth Bane being safe and sound. :)

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