Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Desslok

The Impending Death of the Expanded Universe! (thread 2.0 because I'm a dork)

Recommended Posts

As far as the EU getting axed, I honestly think folks are overreacting.

 

That said, there are some parts of the EU that are real stinkers and won't be missed.  In another thread, a few folks have lamented that the Star Wars comics are going back to Marvel, who loathed the cheesy/corny 80's comics that company did in comparison to Dark Horse's generally more mature works (in their opinions).

 

And while Leland Chee has done an incredibly job over the past several years of trying to sort out inconsistencies when they do pop up (mostly as a result of more recent work either not taking into account or just ignoring prior work), I'm sure he'd appreciate having a more cohesive whole to work from, particularly given how the EU has grown by leaps and bounds since the early days of WEG's D6 system and the Han Solo Corporate Sector trilogy.  It also makes things easier going forward on EU authors as there will be less worry/concern of getting various EU facts mixed up while also making it easier on the approvals department to ensure the new material lines up with the pre-existing material.

 

That and as John Jackson Millar quite wisely said during the 2008 GenCon WotC Star Wars seminar, "every time you create, you also restrict," referring to that every time an author introduces some new element that winds up restricting what a later author (or even the same author) can do in that setting.  He used the example of Darth Malak, who appeared in the KOTOR comic series prior to becoming a Sith Lord, and mentioned he had to be careful in case some official backstory element came out that completely contradicted what he'd put into the comic.

 

And as Split Light said, if it means that the material written by Kevin J. Anderson gets wiped out, then so much the better.  The man's a hack even at the best of times, and what's been done regarding Dune borders on a true travesty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And as Split Light said, if it means that the material written by Kevin J. Anderson gets wiped out, then so much the better.  The man's a hack even at the best of times, and what's been done regarding Dune borders on a true travesty.

 

I kind of thought the Death Star run by middle level bureaucrat committee was kind of funny. Mind you, it was the only good point of that whole **** trilogy - but I'll give him credit where it's due.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That and as John Jackson Millar quite wisely said during the 2008 GenCon WotC Star Wars seminar, "every time you create, you also restrict," referring to that every time an author introduces some new element that winds up restricting what a later author (or even the same author) can do in that setting.  He used the example of Darth Malak, who appeared in the KOTOR comic series prior to becoming a Sith Lord, and mentioned he had to be careful in case some official backstory element came out that completely contradicted what he'd put into the comic.

To be honest that's why I didn't really believe that the EU was a good thing to be treated as a somehow single, contiguous whole, and why I'm OK with Disney/Lucasfilm doing a comprehensive review of existing licensed works... especially when fans already practice the concept of "fanon" or "headcanon".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that the latest version of the movies and the Clone Wars tv show will be Canon. Everything written set on those time periods that contradicts the movies, the TV show and project planned are out. Same with KotR, unless it contradicts the movies or Clone Wars it will stay.

 

I will bet all my monopoly money that everything follows the Truce of Bakura chronologically is out since they probably don't want the next movies to be restrained by the old stories.

 

Honestly I'm looking forward to the house cleaning. If anything I'm mostly worried on how it will affect the RPG and especially when the times to renew the license gets nears since Disney seem to keep everything in-house.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm honestly surprised it's taken this long for Disney to get around to dragging the EU up to the headsman. I'll be very interested in seeing what survives.

 

My personal wishlist:

 

- Thrawn

- Dark Forces

- Imperial Knights (as a concept, I think they're cool)

 

But does this purge only extend to the post-Endor EU, or will they be cleaning house on the prequel stuff as well? Because while I'm ambivalent about most of it, I rather liked some parts -- like Outbound Flight or Republic Commando. Plus, The Clone Wars was actually kind of fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I imagine they will start with the original and prequel trilogies and expand from there. The Clone Wars will probably be included. And then form there they will pick and choose what fits best for their vision going forward. Since the new trilogy is to take place after the OT, I would say post-Endor EU is to suffer the most retconning or outright elimination. Stuff from before the prequel will, in all likelihood, get some trimming too, but maybe not as bad depending on future plans of not just movies, but novels and comics too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And as Split Light said, if it means that the material written by Kevin J. Anderson gets wiped out, then so much the better.  The man's a hack even at the best of times, and what's been done regarding Dune borders on a true travesty.

 

I kind of thought the Death Star run by middle level bureaucrat committee was kind of funny. Mind you, it was the only good point of that whole **** trilogy - but I'll give him credit where it's due.

 

 

I liked that, and the wargames scene in Darksaber but that's about all. I hated how he used Daala but can't decide if that was just his incompetence or sexism on his part. IMO a good author would have given her a few victories against decent sized NR fleets rather then just letting her win against one decent sized pirate fleet, and forces so weak an utter incompetent could beat them with the fleet she commanded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am one hundred percent in favor of a canon purge. I never considered anything outside the movies to be canon anyway, even the Clone Wars animated show. While i do like Thrawn (Benedict Cumberbatch would be awesome in that role), if it means getting rid of Jodo Kast, i say tear it all down and start over with just the films.

A fresh start for this new era is just what Star Wars needs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would think this, combined with Star Wars Rebels, should give a hint about F&D.  We will likely see just how many Force users or refugee Jedi there are and have an idea of maybe where FFG can go with F&D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am one hundred percent in favor of a canon purge. I never considered anything outside the movies to be canon anyway, even the Clone Wars animated show. While i do like Thrawn (Benedict Cumberbatch would be awesome in that role), if it means getting rid of Jodo Kast, i say tear it all down and start over with just the films.

A fresh start for this new era is just what Star Wars needs.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I'm in the minority, but I really liked NJO and the Yuuzhan Vong. I think what they did to the galaxy was exactly the kind of shake-up needed to give us even more awesome stuff like Legacy of the Force and the Legacy comics.

 

 

MandalorynOranj, I also enjoyed the new Jedi order. I didn't mind the idea of the yuhzon vong. Sadly, they were a fix for how over the top Jedi had become and how formulaic the stories had gotten.

The problem with the vong was they were too much of everything. Extra galactic, force immune, bio-tech using s&m worshipers. Now the last part was, from what I heard, just supposed to be the one vong domain that worshiped pain, but it got supplanted on the whole race.

The vong were extra galactic because so much, sometimes conflicting, material made it easier to put them from there. The bio tech I thought was interesting and to show how alien they were. The force null quality was a fix for how powerful Jedi were.

While I enjoyed many EU novels, they never felt that the main characters were ever in any real danger.

There was some complete shlock in the new Jedi order, but the loss Han felt for losing his heterosexual life mate chewbacca and then his son were good plot points I felt.

 

I'm another who didn't mind the shaking up of what we know and love of Star Wars EU. Although I don't know how they'd do it smoothly to be on the screen. Although the characters in it would be almost the right age now.

 

It is bad of me that I would love some Rogue Squadron.

 

Back on the topic of what is being planned with storyboard and working out before they start movies. Then the whole X-Men francise issue wouldn't be likely to occur and they can say "this is the timeline" and work with that rather than make it up as they go.

 

Honestly, I am expecting some of the EU to not exist while others may not become movies but will be lore in the background to help new stories they plan out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top of the list to kill:

 

Young Jedi Knights

Dark Empire

Anything after or including New Jedi Order.

Dark Saber

Vader's Hand

Ewok Cartoons and TV show

 

Top of the list to keep

Anything by Tim Zahn

Knights of the Old Republic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yay! An entirely new canon... that I can completely ignore as much as I did the last one. 

 

I don't care personally, but I can see why the new Insect Overlords would want to clear up that mess.  

 

Anything I liked I can keep for my own games anyway.

 

Otherwise, Chortles and Desslok said everything I would want to say.

 

 

The original trilogy was brilliant. The prequel trilogy showed why "The Childhood and Whiny Pubescence of Darth Vader, Plus Force Wuxia" was a terrible plot premise that never should have been green-lit.

 

If I ever get another tattoo, it shall be this... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly believe that a clean-up in the EU is more than overdue.

Although i do hope that they keep everything that Timothy Zahn brought up.

Thrawn, Pellaeon and the like brought a much needed level of competence to the Empire which seemed to be ruled by clowns and psychopaths until then.

And yes, Cumberbatch would make a good Thrawn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Star Wars has given me fun, entertainment, and even guidance for all 28 years of my life. Granted, I paid good money for said benefits, but that doesn't mean I think the franchise owes me a SINGLE thing. Overall, I'm glad Star Wars -- my very favorite aspect of modern mythology, by far -- is in the hands of a quality-obsessed company with more resources than whole nations at its disposal. I'm prepared to sacrifice some EU material for the greater good... and it IS the greater good, make no mistake.

Which brings me to my second point. Who here is a Star Trek fan?

J.J. Abram's 2009 reboot was a sequel, a prequel and a remake to the entirety of the Star Trek franchise, all at once. Without skipping a beat, it created a new universe that new audiences could easily follow that flowed seemlessly into the canon longtime fans already coveted. In my personal opinion it was amazing, and it stands as one of my all-time favorite films, hands down.

Again in 2013, Star Trek Into Darkness proved to be a sequel, a prequel and a remake of previous Kahn appearances. Indeed, watching Space Seed, Wrath of Kahn, and Into Darkness will each individually give you new insights into this fascinating character who so unfortunately never got a chance to develop due to Orignal Gen's infamous and untimely cancelation. Abrams took what was there and built on it, rather than burning it to the ground and creating some Frankenstein's monster.

My point is this: why is everyone so worried? Disney just spent $4 billion -- probably the most money every spent on the rights to a single story in human history -- on ALL off Star Wars, the EU included. On top of it, they hired the director who rebooted Star Trek without negating the old stuff to direct Episode VII. How does that not indicate a strong desire to hold onto and utilize established canon...?

(While Star Trek's canon isn't nearly as extensive as Star War's, keep in mind that Abrams had something like 30 seasons worth of televison and 10 movies to think about even as he created something new in the process.)

Edited by JonahHex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love that notice, thank you so much! :D

 

As a fan I love SW. There are a few facts and stories that I didn't like them so much, but well, they are SW!

 

But as a GM I REAALLY apreciate that reciclage because sometimes I don't know what is canon or not. I love canon things in SW (yep, I'm that guy that introduces Mega Man X and Chrono Trigger/Cross facts on its games XD) but I like to work with a clean and clear piece of paper before create anything.

 

I hope that this team make a new and clear work that fans can access to it and know about canon or not just accessing to a simple "Wookieepedia list". That will be a great help.

 

Again, thanks for the info!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But my campaign is based off the Droids/Ewoks cartoon, The Holiday special!?!?! Gone...

 

While I am old, I collected the original Marvel comics as a kid and the first RPG I played was WEG Star Wars. I DID love a lot of the EU at the time. It saved Star Wars. Without the books and comics of the 90s to keep the torch lit, I think the franchise would not have come back. So I say thank you to all the artists, authors and creative minds that got to play in that universe (and got paid to do it). They helped keep Star Wars alive for the world. They brought so much joy to the fans. I don't think we should forget that. We can look back now and think of the Marvel series as super cheesy, but that was the time. Look at everything that was printed or on TV at that time, it was all cheesy. The writers were writing for that time. So anyway, I think the EU has been over inflated, and over done, and over used. I am glad to see it go. It did it's part and now it is time for it to retire. It will always be there though, for those that want to keep it, use it or just re-read it. I do think it is time for the Mandalorians to be reset, and no longer be the TRUE saviors of the galaxy. 

All I ask Disney to keep is the Courtship of Princess Leia. It is not everyday you get to read Han asking Leia if she wants to ride his Rancor...

So from here on out the only thing that shall be deemed canon is my campaign. :)

Edited by R2builder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Star Wars has given me fun, entertainment, and even guidance for all 28 years of my life. Granted, I paid good money for said benefits, but that doesn't mean I think the franchise owes me a SINGLE thing. Overall, I'm glad Star Wars -- my very favorite aspect of modern mythology, by far -- is in the hands of a quality-obsessed company with more resources than whole nations at its disposal. I'm prepared to sacrifice some EU material for the greater good... and it IS the greater good, make no mistake.

 

[...]

My point is this: why is everyone so worried? Disney just spent $4 billion -- probably the most money every spent on the rights to a single story in human history -- on ALL off Star Wars, the EU included. On top of it, they hired the director who rebooted Star Trek without negating the old stuff to direct Episode VII. How does that not indicate a strong desire to hold onto and utilize established canon...?

 

I'm not worried myself. I was never worried about Disney taking over Star Wars. Why? Because Disney gave us The Avengers, and made the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe really work. When they took over Marvel, all they did on the comic end was take over at the very top, leave all the talent in place and tell them, "Keep doing what you're doing, but don't worry about money anymore," and then fix a few distribution problems while they were at it.

 

I understand why Disney is sometimes portrayed as the Evil Empire of Entertainment, but it's undeserved. They know how to make movies. They know how to arrange artists and actors and the various other talents required. Most importantly, they have a lot of money that they can sink into projects until they start to work. Guaranteed, if Episode VII were to tank, they could go ahead with VIII and IX anyway and learn from their mistakes.

 

I just hope they make their decision soon. The wait is what will drive me crazy, and I'd like to modify my game's structure if something major turns out to be getting the ax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JonahHex,

You asked who was a Star Trek fan: I am, both of the original continuity and the new timeline. The new movies have really good actors and action, but they do lack gge hopful optimism of the future of humanity. The rebooted timeline is closer to the feel of the original Star Wars.

The reboot breathed life into a stale franchise, and if episode VII and Rebels does the same for star wars, I'm fine with the loss of the EU (even for the loss of the kotor games :P )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...