non space marine dreadnoughts

[lord inquisitor Iannise 15]

Do they exist? if so who and how does someone become a dreadnought  

[Brother Orpheo 243]

Penitent Engines, Wraithguard/lords, Talos Engines, Killa Kans and Deff Dreads, and Dreadnoughts all fill a "war walker" niche. The closest you'll get is Terminator Armour (aka Tactical Dreadnought Armour), and you'll have to be pretty special in someone's eyes to get access to that. 

[Lynata 2,228]

Probably depends on your interpretation of the fluff, and the stuff you read.

 

 

 

That being said, Brother Orpheo already listed a good number of common alternatives, of which at least two or three should be fairly common knowledge to most people somewhat accustomed to the IP.

[Kshatriya 1,199]

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

[Brother Orpheo 243]

Probably depends on your interpretation of the fluff, and the stuff you read.

 

 

 

That being said, Brother Orpheo already listed a good number of common alternatives, of which at least two or three should be fairly common knowledge to most people somewhat accustomed to the IP.

Wow. I'd forgotten all about that.

 

I miss bitz 

[lord inquisitor Iannise 15]

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 

[Lynata 2,228]

Depends on what you read - in some novels, and I think in FFG's RPGs, too, Space Marines exist on a whole other plane of awesomeness. In Dark Heresy, apparently anyone but a Marine fights with "civilian" bolters and not even the Inquisition is able to procure technology as mighty as that used by the Legiones Astartes.

 

It's not a version of the background I find particularly appealing, but that is of course a matter of personal preferences. I think it boils down to whether you'd rather see the setting of 40k as an epic tale focused on the mythical quests of immortal demigods a la the Horus Heresy novels, or more like a gritty but living universe where the Space Marines are not the center of attention but rather a mismanaged relic of a better time (whose biological life expectancy is "only" two to three times that of an average man). Both are valid approaches.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Lynata

[Green Knight 9,743]

I had some crazy ratlings create a makeshift dreadnought that the players had to fight...lots of fun.

[Lynata 2,228]

That sounds ... orky. 

[Green Knight 9,743]

That sounds ... orky. 

 

Worse...it's like having ordinary ratlings in the pantry...only when you try to chase them away with a broom they have a dreadnought hiding in the basement

[Kshatriya 1,199]

 

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 

 

The Astarte in question would still have centuries of battle experience as one of the most effective killing machines that exists in the Milky Way Galaxy, having served in Tactical, Assault, and Devastator roles during his career and fighting on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds against potentially hundreds of different types of foe. Few things can claim the same, mostly Temple Assassins, and it would make zero sense to inter a puissant master of stealth kills into a massive, clunky destructionbot.

 

Also, infrastructure. The Chapter cares in a particular way about each one of its Astartes. Virtually all other institutions hold their fighting men and women as very replaceable.

[Kshatriya 1,199]

In Dark Heresy, apparently anyone but a Marine fights with "civilian" bolters and not even the Inquisition is able to procure technology as mighty as that used by the Legiones Astartes.

Black Industries mangled that part of the IP and FFG hasn't seen fit to really correct those issues.

[Adeptus-B 926]

 

I miss bitz 

 

 

Me, too.

 

Do they exist? if so who and how does someone become a dreadnought  

 

Are you looking for a 100% true Space Marine Dreadnought? If so, then no.

 

Or are you just looking for some kind of butt-kicking walker? If so, then yes:

 

 

-but they are always custom-built or ancient relics, so the character using it will need some serious pull, either with the Echlesiarchy or the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

And if a mortally wounded character is to be interred inside it a la a SM Dreadnought, then it goes without saying that your campaign will take an unusual turn: in addition to Stealth now being 100% impossible, the character will not be able to fit through any opening smaller than a garage door...

[lord inquisitor Iannise 15]

 

 

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 

 

The Astarte in question would still have centuries of battle experience as one of the most effective killing machines that exists in the Milky Way Galaxy, having served in Tactical, Assault, and Devastator roles during his career and fighting on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds against potentially hundreds of different types of foe. Few things can claim the same, mostly Temple Assassins, and it would make zero sense to inter a puissant master of stealth kills into a massive, clunky destructionbot.

 

Also, infrastructure. The Chapter cares in a particular way about each one of its Astartes. Virtually all other institutions hold their fighting men and women as very replaceable.

 

isn't cipher cain like 400 or somthing? 

[WilliamAsher 82]

While not quite the power of a Dreadnaught, the Thallax Conversion is possible for severely injured troops with excellent Mechanicum connections (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Thallax).  Note that it is questionable if this is really available still.  They are powerful, but not nearly a Dreadnaught.  The only other legitimate option is a Knight (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knight_Baron).  Knights are rare, but there are 18 of them in the Calaxis sector.

 

For the more heretekal group you might consider refitting an Imperial Robot (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Robots) with the character's brain in a sealed case kept alive via a Sarcosan Wave Generator (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sarcosan_Wave_Generator).  Of course, my players are not aware of the fact that one of their enemies is outfitting a small force of such things...

[lord inquisitor Iannise 15]

While not quite the power of a Dreadnaught, the Thallax Conversion is possible for severely injured troops with excellent Mechanicum connections (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Thallax).  Note that it is questionable if this is really available still.  They are powerful, but not nearly a Dreadnaught.  The only other legitimate option is a Knight (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Knight_Baron).  Knights are rare, but there are 18 of them in the Calaxis sector.

 

For the more heretekal group you might consider refitting an Imperial Robot (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Robots) with the character's brain in a sealed case kept alive via a Sarcosan Wave Generator (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Sarcosan_Wave_Generator).  Of course, my players are not aware of the fact that one of their enemies is outfitting a small force of such things...

Now thats what i've been looking for kudos Asher

[Cymbel 122]

In the IH book, there is something called "The Rite of Setesh" which intombs the body in a non combat dreadnaught like thing. You can work from that as a base, add more armor, weapons, whatever.

[Askil 123]

Bionic resurrection also exists, the brain and any salvagable internal organs are removed (either along with the torso or not depending on condition) and fitted into a the closest thing in 40k to robocop and depending on how your new body is built you could pass for anything from a human with expensive bionics to a trundling murder servitor.

 

Needless to say this is hardly an ideal existance and only the most mentally resilient people survive the process of losing their entire body, their sense of touch and seeing somehig they don`t recognise in the mirror with any of their marbles.

 

Not to mention the staggeringly vast learning curve of operating the new body or the high chance it just won`t work, your brain will die and degrade and anything they bring back after that might only be "you" from a "what name should we put on the tombstone?" point of view.

[Lynata 2,228]

Basically ...

[bogi_khaosa 267]

The Inquisition can get weapons as powerful as the Astartes. Heretics in Black Crusade can after all. (In fact, Legion and normal plasma weapons have the same availability.)

 

They just have a -20 to fire them and count them as one weapon category larger. Since they're really big.* (Meaning that in the case of bolters there isn't much point, since an Astartes boltgun is practically the same as a mortal heavy bolter, leaving out different rates of fire. So they're both heavy weapons doing about the same damage -- 1d10+9 Pen 4 vs. 1d10+8 Pen 5 -- except that you have a -20 with the former since you can't get your little fingers around the triggering mechanisms.)

 

*Which, alongside the increased weight, should be a clue as to why they do more damage.

Edited January 11, 2014 by bogi_khaosa

[lord inquisitor Iannise 15]

so what i gathered so far is yes they could make a human Dreadnaught but odds are he's going to be doing something else besides murdering Heretics, xenos and demons all day long which is something the chassis doesn't support?      

[bogi_khaosa 267]

It would be a very strange thing to do. but technically possible.

[Brother Anselm 48]

And even then he'll be a liability, psychosis and complete mental breakdowns are one of the reasons Astartes dreadnoughts are kept in a comatose state till an emergency arises where they are needed. Their minds are strengthened, i dread to think how a mere mortal would cope with the shock. 

[Askil 123]

Imagine adjusting to life suspended in a sensory derivation tank that moves, watching life through a low resoluton video screen  and hearing through a faulty static-choked telephone line.

 

Imagine that if you ever leave the tank you die. You can`t get out by yourself anyway and nobody would help, Imagine mental strain of fighting against all the evolutionary, pshysiological and psychological programming that made you who and what you were for what might be the rest of time.

 

Imagine that everyone around you ages and dies but you endure unchanged. it seems to happen ever faster and faster as your finite mortal mind loses perspective and the meaningless years fly by.

 

Then imagine that for all it`s ageless stength and resilience all your immortal body can do well is destroy, the only expression it can easily allow you for all your fustrated lust, passion, lonliness, rage and despair is mindless destruction of all he form and beauty you have grown envy in it`s vibrant brevity.

 

Then ladies and gentlemen you will have grasped why dreadnoughts go doolaly.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Askil

[Kshatriya 1,199]

so what i gathered so far is yes they could make a human Dreadnaught but odds are he's going to be doing something else besides murdering Heretics, xenos and demons all day long which is something the chassis doesn't support?      

Strictly speaking he's also not going to be a Dreadnought. I don't think an unaugmented body or non-Astarte sarcophagus is designed to interface with the Space Marine Dreadnought systems. Another walker where your shattered body is interred in a different sort of sarcophagus, maybe…or directly attached. Etc.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Kshatriya