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sunny ravencourt

Proton Torps or Concussion Mis

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For this, I'd break down the attack dice. You have
1 side of Crit

3 sides of Hit

2 sides of Focus

2 sides of Blank.

 

That means that they normally have the same odds of converting a non-damage into a damage, at which point the Proton Torps are superior (due to creating a Crit instead of a Hit).

However, if you are able to focus on the turn on which you loose your ordnance, the Concussions will pull one damage more than the Protons, and become better in that case.

 

The superiority of one vis-a-vis the other is therefore established in the nature of your alpha-strike. If you have PTL or some other way of guaranteeing a double-action on your ship (e.g. Squad Leader, Deadeye + Recon Specialist, et c.), then Concussions are superior. Otherwise, go with Protons.

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To quote from another thread where I literally just answered this same question:

 

 

 

 

Attack dice have 8 sides:

2 blanks

2 focus

3 hits

1 crit

 

If you don't have a focus when you fire a missile, then Concussion Missile and Proton Torpedo have the same exact hit distribution. The only difference is that Proton Torpedo has 2 sides out of 8 that can get turned into a critical hit, and Concussion Missile has 2 sides out of 8 that can get turned into a hit.

 

If you can action stack, then obviously Concussion Missiles get more hits. They are a favorite of mine with PtL.

 

FYI the exact numbers are:

 

0 hits         1 hit           2 hits        3 hits          4 hits

0.3906%   8.98%       31.25%    40.625%   18.75%   Concussion Missile / Proton Torpedo = 2.68 avg

0%             0.39%       4.7%         21.1%        73.8%     Concussion Missile w/ focus = 3.68 avg

0.0244%   1.83%       10.5%       35.3%       52.3%     Jonus + Concussion Missile / Proton Torpedo = 3.38 avg

0%             0.0244%   0.44%       7.25%       92.3%     Jonus + Concussion Missile + Focus = 3.918 avg 

 

Edited by MajorJuggler

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To quote from another thread where I literally just answered this same question:

 

 

 

 

Attack dice have 8 sides:

2 blanks

2 focus

3 hits

1 crit

 

If you don't have a focus when you fire a missile, then Concussion Missile and Proton Torpedo have the same exact hit distribution. The only difference is that Proton Torpedo has 2 sides out of 8 that can get turned into a critical hit, and Concussion Missile has 2 sides out of 8 that can get turned into a hit.

 

If you can action stack, then obviously Concussion Missiles get more hits. They are a favorite of mine with PtL.

 

FYI the exact numbers are:

 

0 hits         1 hit           2 hits        3 hits          4 hits

0.3906%   8.98%       31.25%    40.625%   18.75%   Concussion Missile / Proton Torpedo = 2.68 avg

0%             0.39%       4.7%         21.1%        73.8%     Concussion Missile w/ focus = 3.68 avg

0.0244%   1.83%       10.5%       35.3%       52.3%     Jonus + Concussion Missile / Proton Torpedo = 3.38 avg

0%             0.0244%   0.44%       7.25%       92.3%     Jonus + Concussion Missile + Focus = 3.918 avg 

 

 

How many focused concussion missiles would it take to reliably obliterate Howlrunner+stealth+ evade/focus (whichever is better).

My A-wings need to know!!! (and many thanks if you can do the math or give me a formula I could use in excel.)  

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How many focused concussion missiles would it take to reliably obliterate Howlrunner+stealth+ evade/focus (whichever is better).

My A-wings need to know!!! (and many thanks if you can do the math or give me a formula I could use in excel.)  

 

I'll get back to you on that one. My scripts can calculate it exactly, but not with Stealth. Planning on adding that soon. Maybe later today.

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Just to add a little something else to this.

 

The advantage of proton torps is only effective when firing on a unshielded craft.  So if you're flying against Tie Fighters torps can be quite nice, but shooting one at a X-Wing with full shields doesn't have much effect and less damage on avg then a concussion missile.

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Just to add a little something else to this.

 

The advantage of proton torps is only effective when firing on a unshielded craft.  So if you're flying against Tie Fighters torps can be quite nice, but shooting one at a X-Wing with full shields doesn't have much effect and less damage on avg then a concussion missile.

Same damage on average, actually, unless you're planning on focusing.

You're also assuming that you won't have enough damage getting through to plant the crit through their shields.

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Did you read my post?  ;)

No, but it's still true that a crit result may not have any extra effect against a shielded craft, which was my point.

The total number of hits will be the same. But if you can't manage a focus + TL you're better off with torps vs unshielded craft then you are shielded ones.

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I would like to suggest that it may also be situational and if you can carry both in a squad why not hedge bets.

an example of situational would be if you have a mix of high PS missile carriers and low the idea to put out some damage with the high PS then fire the torp last.

To explain better I have recently been focussing heavily on bombers.

lets say

Gamma / cluster/concussion

Gamma / cluster/ proton torp

Jonus

Howlrunner / squad leader

I know this is not 100pts

in this example the gamma with the concussion gets squad leader to focus & lock and the gamma with proton just a lock and relies on Jonus.

concussion strips shields and proton plants the crit.

very long winded my appologies I got lost in other thoughts while typing.

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While we are on the subject, advanced protons, worth it?

 

Proton vs Adv.Proton ::: for 2 points you lose Range2-3, 1 Focus/Auto-Crit but gain mini-TargetLock and +Attack Dice.

 

It's essentially a "Starfighter Shotgun" provided you have a focus and target-locked earlier at range 2-3 to use it.

Edited by IvlerIin

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While we are on the subject, advanced protons, worth it?

 

IF you can get the TL on the "right" target and have a Focus (or Marksmanship) to spend on the attack it is very likely to land hits or crits with all the dice.  Then you're looking at how many of those hits the opponent can evade/cancel and see how many hits actually land.

 

Against an Academy TIE you're spending six points to kill 12 so probably not worth it.  Using it against Soontir Fel and taking him out with one shot, potentially worth it.  Using it to one shot an upgraded Wedge, definitely worth it.

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Unfortunately only the tie bomber (and firespray with slave 1 title) have the option to field either.

 

That being said, for a barebones shot the proton torpedo is slightly better than the concussion missile.  If you have a focus for whatever reason, then the concussion missile is better.

 

Here's why:

Rolling 4 dice, the most "average" result would be 2 hits, 1 focus, and 1 blank.

A proton torpedo changes the focus to a crit so you get 2 hits and 1 crit.

A concussion missile changes the blank to a hit so you get 3 hits.

2 hits and a crit are slightly better than 3 hits

 

Now if you have a focus as well, you would still get 2 hits and a crit for the proton torpedo, but FOUR hits for the concussion missile.

 

In regards to ATP's.  I think they are awesome if you can pull them off.  They are clearly meant for rhymer with his ability to shoot them at range 2.  Anyone else it's tricky to get in range 1 and also not get shot down before getting it off.  Plus at range 1 you already get an extra attack die, so for 3 attack ships you're at 4 which is only one less than atp.  So 2 attack ships are best to have it probably.

 

As others have said you NEED a focus with the target lock, so you need ptl or someone giving you one of the two via their ability.

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Agreed. Advanced Proton Torpedoes hurt like hell but are only really worth it if you can get a Target Lock and a Focus at the same time. Either Push The Limit, or Colonel Jendon, can give you that target lock, or you can lock one turn and fire the next (although getting a shot the next turn isn't garuanteed and it doesn't half telgraph your intentions!)

 

In terms of concussion missiles versus torpedoes, as noted it depends whether you can get a focus on your ship at the same time (as with APTs) and the same rules apply.

 

That said, one thought (if you have an elite pilot talent) is opportunist, which swings things back in favour of the protons since you can fling an extra attack die.

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One other big difference between Proton Torpedoes vs Concussion Missiles (at least until wave 3 came out) was what ships could take them.

 

Spending 4 points to get your 3 attack dice to 4 on an X-wing didn't seem as good as a deal as spending 4 dice to get your 2 attack dice to 4 on a TIE advanced.

 

Of course the 2 attack dice Y-wing going to 4 attack dice pretty good.

 

For the same reason I don't like torpedoes on B-wings.

 

The debate above really only comes into play with TIE Bombers or Slave I (I don't usually put missiles or Torpedoes on my Firesprays)

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I don't think there should be much question that the "value" of any given secondary weapon also depends on what ship it goes on.

 

Turrets:  Currently two ships can equip them but while most would say a HKW is dead weight without one as the 1 primary attack doesn't do much the Y-Wing can still function moderately well due to a better dial, bigger primary, and potential torpedoes.

 

Cannons: Honestly, these are almost easy to compare as all three of the ships that can use them have 3 primary attacks to measure against.  You take the HLC for the consistent ability to roll 4 dice will all* of your attacks.  The Ion Cannon may be better at range 3 but inside of that you're often trading damage for the Ion effect.  Autoblasters are actually something I don't look at unless I KNOW I'm going up against highly evasive targets otherwise I feel the 4 dice I'd normally roll do about as well as the un-evadable 3 dice attack when the target could only evade one or two dice anyway.

 

Torps/Missiles:  This is easily the category with the most play.  A single shot at 4 damage is a much better deal for a 2 attack ship than it is a 3 attack ship.

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