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Alox

Psy rating, fettered, round down?

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Currently it states that fettered is half psy rating (rounded up). But if you have 1 in psy rating you will be able to use all your poweres at fettered strength equally well as with normal strength.

 

So shouldn't it be rounded down instead?

 

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That's fine, since Psy rating one means all your powers are super weak anyways. You aren't even enough off a morsel. Maybe add a sidebar saying that if you roll 100 it's a phenomena

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But fettered strength can be spammed without consequence, shouldnt even a psy rating 1 psyker have to roll perils?

 

I would rather say at psy rating 1 the psyker is not strong enough to do fettered power levels.

Edited by Alox

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That's fine, since Psy rating one means all your powers are super weak anyways. You aren't even enough off a morsel. Maybe add a sidebar saying that if you roll 100 it's a phenomena

 

I wouldn't call having Charm, Deceive, Inquiry, Interrogation, Intimidate at 60 as a starting character with no risk super weak. Or try Domination with a target of 65 vs the opponents WP (which is higher than a lot of the NPCs in the game) to make them run away from the fight, no effort.

 

It might not be the case for all powers (some of the shooting/buff powers are certainly weak at PR1), but there are enough powers that even at PR1 are very strong/borderline broken.

 

To Alox's point, I'd rather that fettered was something like a -4/-5 to PR. Something that can only be done as a high level psyker and significantly weaker than doing the power normally.

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If we keep the Fettered power level, it should come with some possibility for harm to the psyker. My idea is to make Fettered powers operate at half PR without causing cause Psychic Phenomena, but whenever the psyker rolls doubles during a Fettered Focus Power test they suffer some Fatigue. This should be a significant hit -- 1d5 Fatigue seems a good starting point to me. Basically, the psyker is using sheer force of will to contain the surging warp energies, a very exhausting task. This allows psykers to use their powers covertly without fear of causing Perils (nothing ruins the governor's dinner party like summoning a Plaguebearer on the dance floor), but the Fatigue from rolling doubles is actually a more severe penalty then many of the lesser Psychic Phenomena.

 

Ideally, Fettered powers would be used only when it is absolutely critical that the psyker not invoke Perils of the Warp. Halving the psyker's PR is not a sufficient downside, but 1d5 Fatigue can definitely hurt.

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I would think that it would always be absolutely critical that the psyker not invoke Perils.  They're not called Perils for nothing. 
I agree that a Fettered psyker should receive fatigue though, if only a single point.

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From the balance reasons how do we justify fettered powers requiring fatigue? Fatigue is a big deal and will not be easily healed in combat (or out of the combat for that matter).  In order to justify fatigue loss on use, fettered powers  would have to be that much more powerful than a combat character using their weapon attacks.  Is that something that we really want?

 

My personal opinion is that fettered powers should be roughly equivalent to the characters using weapons (for combat applications) or skills ( for out of combat applications).  Unfettered powers should be stronger but carry risk with them to compensate.

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I would think that it would always be absolutely critical that the psyker not invoke Perils.  They're not called Perils for nothing. 

I agree that a Fettered psyker should receive fatigue though, if only a single point.

 

He clearly means Psychic Phenomina, not Perils. Play nice.

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I would think that it would always be absolutely critical that the psyker not invoke Perils.  They're not called Perils for nothing. 

I agree that a Fettered psyker should receive fatigue though, if only a single point.

 

He clearly means Psychic Phenomina, not Perils. Play nice.

 

 

Ah yes, I did mean Psychic Phenomena in general.

 

I meant that Fettered powers should be used when the psyker is actively trying to avoid causing any kind of Warp disturbance. For example, when the characters are attending a high-society event and the psyker is mind-scanning the guests to determine any hostile intentions -- in a situation like this, even the smallest psychic phenomena could have disastrous social consequences. In cases like this, it's good to have the option to use Fettered powers to guarantee that a bad roll from the psyker won't screw things up for the whole party.

 

I think that a chance of receiving a substantial amount of Fatigue makes for better gameplay then just getting a Fatigue point every time a Fettered power is manifested. If the latter option is used, players could feel that they only have a couple uses for their Fettered powers and will be very reluctant to use them. My players tend to approach investigations fairly cautiously, and I can't imagine them casting enough powers to willingly Fatigue their characters. Only becoming Fatigued when the psyker rolls doubles seems more fun to me because it doesn't place such a strict limit on psychic power usage. Players make psyker characters because they want to cast psychic powers! IMO the rules should let them cast their powers frequently if needed but provide a chance for things to go wrong if they recklessly overuse their powers.

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You might be right, I'll have to test it at my table. 

 

 

Only becoming Fatigued when the psyker rolls doubles seems more fun to me because it doesn't place such a strict limit on psychic power usage. Players make psyker characters because they want to cast psychic powers! IMO the rules should let them cast their powers frequently if needed but provide a chance for things to go wrong if they recklessly overuse their powers.

 

This bit in particular intrigues me.

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I agree with Mr. Weasels. Rules which prevent, discourage or limit what is The Main Modus Operandi of a class or archetype is no fun at all.

 

If a player rolls a Psyker, that tells me as the GM that he wants to mess with the Warp, and I should try to accommodate. 

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I agree with Mr. Weasels. Rules which prevent, discourage or limit what is The Main Modus Operandi of a class or archetype is no fun at all.

 

If a player rolls a Psyker, that tells me as the GM that he wants to mess with the Warp, and I should try to accommodate. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Psychic power users can make other members of a party very quickly feel useless, which in my experience couples with them often being played by 'special snowflake' type players. Rules that hem them in are often a limiting factor that stop them dominating the party and ruining the game for everyone else.

Edited by Cail

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I agree with Mr. Weasels. Rules which prevent, discourage or limit what is The Main Modus Operandi of a class or archetype is no fun at all.

 

If a player rolls a Psyker, that tells me as the GM that he wants to mess with the Warp, and I should try to accommodate. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with this. Psychic power users can make other members of a party very quickly feel useless, which in my experience couples with them often being played by 'special snowflake' type players. Rules that hem them in are often a limiting factor that stop them dominating the party and ruining the game for everyone else.

 

 

I agree with this. One of the problems with Dark Heresy is that psykers (and techmarines while we're at it) got access to things that only their classes could take, yet could pretty much do what the other classes did as well. This is made all the more difficult in a free buy system like DH2.

 

It's not that this isn't workable, it's just that the advantages given by psykers and techmarines need to be costed (xp or influence) in such a way that the character should have to pick which to focus on rather than being nearly as good at shooting as the guardsman character while also having all the psychic goodness that no-one else can take. Dark Heresy 2 seems to do a decent job of this as the psychic stuff is a lot more expensive and the mechanicus stuff is more widely available.

 

Back to the original point, looks like fettered is being removed as of update 6, which for me is only a good thing. If you want a totally safe option, use a gun or your own skills (something the psyker still has access to).

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That's more a problem with the utility powers from V1 being much too useful (aka unbalanced). 

 

The V1 ruleset was pretty poor design, really. How can a psyker be Sanctioned and "fit for service" if every tenth use of his powers results in things go bump, and every 40th makes things blow up? Pr V1, every 400th use of a Psychic teqhniqe leads to Demons popping out, which is pretty poor odds, even if Psykers are exceedingly rare. 

 

The powers are written to but the risks are atrocious. Fettering is the only thing that makes sense, and while a reduction in power makes sense, adding Fatigue or other forms of punishment does not.

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