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Harleigh

Skipray Blastboat

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I have just recently purchased Gosric's Skipray and I am very impressed by the model.  Well done sir!  Now I need to come up with rules for it.  My initial thoughts are:

 

Att: 3 (Ion cannon)

Ag:  2

Hull:  6

Shield:  6

Actions:  Focus, Target Lock

Options:  System upgrade, Crew, Turret (*), Proton, Proton, Missile, Missile, Modification

 

* This comes with a turret, and I was thinking of the HLC but limiting it to 3 dice instead of 4 and costing it at 8

 

Maneuver dial the same as a Y wing

 

 

Thoughts?

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A turreted HLC is crazy!

 

While we should realize that the ship's true "primary" weapon is the massive Ion Cannon in this game the primary should probably be 2 dice with a 360 firing arc like you see on the Outer Rim Smuggler.  The Ion Cannon would come via a cannon upgrade slot and in addition to the standard Ion Cannon option there could be a "Heavy Ion Cannon" option which rolls more dice but which with additional benefits as well.  It would have one missile slot and one torpedo slot and probably should have the systems upgrade slot as well, and maybe even a crew slot.

 

As far as cost goes this is going to be pretty pricy especially if you give it 6 hull and 6 shield along with 2 agility as that is better than the Firespray gets.  Moving it down to a net 10 hit points you could see this starting out at the same price as a Firespray as you've basically cloned it except for taking a 3 die base attack in two arcs and letting it be 2 dice all the way around.  You're still paying for upgrades on their own of course.

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Reading the ships description, a 360 degree HLC is hard to justify. This ship's primary armament was three forward mounted ion cannons. The turret is pretty small.

 

PS: 2

Att: 2 (360 radius)

Ag:  1 ( Its maneuvering performance was not as remarkable out of the atmosphere)

Hull:  4 (it is smaller than a Firespray)

Shield:  6 (shielding caused some registries to designate it as a capital ship itself.)

Action Icons:  Focus, Target Lock

Upgrade Icons:  System Upgrade (only on higher PS; GAT-12p), Crew, Cannon, Proton, Missile

Dial: Similar to b-wing with 4 forward being white, 3 k-turn (often relied on swift first-strikes)

Points: 30

Edited by onebit

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I have just recently purchased Gosric's Skipray and I am very impressed by the model.  Well done sir!  Now I need to come up with rules for it.  My initial thoughts are:

 

Att: 3 (Ion cannon)

Ag:  2

Hull:  6

Shield:  6

Actions:  Focus, Target Lock

Options:  System upgrade, Crew, Turret (*), Proton, Proton, Missile, Missile, Modification

 

* This comes with a turret, and I was thinking of the HLC but limiting it to 3 dice instead of 4 and costing it at 8

 

Maneuver dial the same as a Y wing

 

 

Thoughts?

We trolls require gameplay pics.  

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I have just recently purchased Gosric's Skipray and I am very impressed by the model.  Well done sir!  Now I need to come up with rules for it.  My initial thoughts are:

 

Att: 3 (Ion cannon)

Ag:  2

Hull:  6

Shield:  6

Actions:  Focus, Target Lock

Options:  System upgrade, Crew, Turret (*), Proton, Proton, Missile, Missile, Modification

 

* This comes with a turret, and I was thinking of the HLC but limiting it to 3 dice instead of 4 and costing it at 8

 

Maneuver dial the same as a Y wing

 

 

Thoughts?

Wow, I think I need to call for restraint here.

More hits than a Firespray, I don't think so. Almost as much as super yt1300.

I'm not sure about the system upgrade. Right now it is a very rare upgrade, lots of ships that we would like to have it don't.

Double missile and double torpedoes is a tone of ordnance, more than any other ship.

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This is why I posted this here, to get feed back from other more experienced gamers on this.  I like Onebit's interpretation, though I would keep the hull at 5 so its the same as a shuttle.  So, I am now going to playtest it as:

 

Pilot:  2

Att: 2 (360 radius)
Ag:  1
Hull:  5
Shield:  6
Action Icons:  Focus, Target Lock
Upgrade Icons:  System Upgrade, Crew, Cannon, Proton, Missile
Points:  32
 
Any thoughts on this newer/better interpretation?

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Skipray Blastboat

 

Pilot:  2

Att: 2 (360 radius)

Ag:  1

Hull:  4

Shield:  6

Action Icons:  Focus, Target Lock, Boost

Upgrade Icons:  System Upgrade, Crew, Turret, Proton, Proton, Missile, Missile

Special: All Primary Weapon Critical Hits in the Front Arc also count as "Ion" hits

Points:  32

 

Dial: Shuttle**

Base: Large

 

-----

 

Hull: reduction is to fall in line with the trend that Large Base Ships have a Basic Health values of HP+SP=10.

Current exceptions to the Trend are Han, Chewie, and Lando. But I believe they were designed as if they were flying a "heavily modified YT-1300" in other words those are the Falcon's Stats regardless of "title card".

 

Dial: Shuttle** and Boost: Wookiepedia Lists the Skipray at 25m and the Lambda at 20m. So the Skipray should be "Lumbering" to some extent which is why the built in boost. Alternatively while testing change the 0 Red Froward to a 4 Red Koiogran to further represent the ship is a combat ship more maneuverable than a shuttle.

 

Special Ability: It is to represent the Forward facing Ion Cannons on the wingtips.

 

Double Torpedo and Missiles: the TIE Bomber has double if the Skipray is to be a large scale Bomber/Assault/Ordinance craft the "double up" option should be available.

Or

Single Torpedo and Missile: New Points: 28. with the Modification Option of "Heavy Payload (4pts) -  Add 1 Missile and 1 Torpedo to Upgrade bar"

 

Turret vs Cannon: With the addition of extra Ordinance in the need for extra forward arc weaponry is less. While the Turret upgrade helps make up for 2 Attack at ranges 1-2 And the less maneuverable Shuttle Dial.

 

-----

 

Anyways that's how my interpretation of the Skipray would look.

Sure the costs is appears relatively low for the number of upgrade options available but maxing out double Torps/Missiles is 12-22 points for 1 shot Front-Arc Only weapons (8-11 for single). And that is on top of any other upgrades to choose from.

 

Other than that hope to hear how your Play-Testing goes and the final stats you decided on. If everyone comes to a consensus about how the ship looks and reads it would make for some interesting scenarios even if we need to scratch build models or proxy.

 

Of course until an official version is released. Even then FFG might simply release what we've play tested and balanced after tweaking minor here or there. I'm sure there have been games where companies took community created and balanced ideas and actually put it in game after a minor tweak here or there...

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Ok, the Skipray may be a Large ship but unlike the Shuttle or YT-1300 it was designed as a combat starship.  It should have a relatively decent dial and could have the same 2 agility that the Firespray somehow gets.  I honestly think you could represent the Skipray best just using the Firespray but replacing the 3 attack front/rear primary with a 2 attack turreted primary.  May lower the PS and the hull/shield to reduce cost but the rest is pretty much like it should be.

 

The capital scale Ion Cannon on the Firespray may be what it is best known for but you'll represent that with some kind of "Heavy Ion Cannon" upgrade that may cost a lot but which has some nifty new features.

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Reading the ships description, a 360 degree HLC is hard to justify. This ship's primary armament was three forward mounted ion cannons. The turret is pretty small.
 
PS: 2
Att: 2 (360 radius)
Ag:  1 ( Its maneuvering performance was not as remarkable out of the atmosphere)
Hull:  4 (it is smaller than a Firespray)
Shield:  6 (shielding caused some registries to designate it as a capital ship itself.)
Action Icons:  Focus, Target Lock
Upgrade Icons:  System Upgrade (only on higher PS; GAT-12p), Crew, Cannon, Proton, Missile
Dial: Similar to b-wing with 4 forward being white, 3 k-turn (often relied on swift first-strikes)
Points: 30

 

I think onebit hit pretty close to the target with his proposed stats (and for his stated reasons). However, I would give it the Firespray maneuver dial.  In fact, I see the whole thing being a variant on the Firespray, stat and point-wise.

 

Chris

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Proposed Heavy Ion Cannon (HIC)

    Range: 1-3

        Attack dice: 3

            Note: a successful "hit" results in 1 Damage and 1 Ion token on Capital ships and 2 Damage/2 Ion tokens on others.

                Cost: 5-7 points

 

Chris

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Proposed Heavy Ion Cannon (HIC)

    Range: 1-3

        Attack dice: 3

            Note: a successful "hit" results in 1 Damage and 1 Ion token on Capital ships and 2 Damage/2 Ion tokens on others.

                Cost: 5-7 points

 

Chris

 

I'd probably give it 4 attack dice, restrict it to Range 2-3, have a successful attack result in one damage and ionization token plus an additional point of damage and ionization token for each additional critical (or hit/crit if you want to be really powerful) that should go through.  Using 4 dice makes it MUCH more effective at hitting things but then having additional function for any crits rolled would be gravy.  I'd probably price it at 7 points just like the HLC because while the HCL converts crits to hits this turn crits into more Ionizing damage.

Edited by StevenO

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Proposed Heavy Ion Cannon (HIC)

    Range: 1-3

        Attack dice: 3

            Note: a successful "hit" results in 1 Damage and 1 Ion token on Capital ships and 2 Damage/2 Ion tokens on others.

                Cost: 5-7 points

 

Chris

 

I'd probably give it 4 attack dice, restrict it to Range 2-4, have a successful attack result in one damage and ionization token plus an additional point of damage and ionization token for each additional critical (or hit/crit if you want to be really powerful) that should go through.  Using 4 dice makes it MUCH more effective at hitting things but then having additional function for any crits rolled would be gravy.  I'd probably price it at 7 points just like the HLC because while the HCL converts crits to hits this turn crits into more Ionizing damage.

 

I was contemplating some of the very things you mention but opted out for several reasons.  I based my version on the capital ship Ion Cannon rules mentioned in another article on this forum (re: integrating ISD and MC80 as board edge pieces).  I thought that maybe the author had an insight as to what FFG was going to do with capital ship weapons when the Tantive IV and Rebel Transport expansions eventually come out.  Pretty sure that range 4 is not going to happen (unless you know something I don't).  Nor do I think it will have more dice than Heavy Laser Cannons.

 

Chris

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Oops.  Finger hit the wrong button and it should have only been range 2-3 and NOT 2-4.  If it gets 4 dice the hypothetical Heavy Ion Cannon wouldn't have any more dice than the HLC so that is realistic for a HIC.  I know I would NOT do 3 dice but if you get a hit you get to do 2 damage as that is just WRONG; if an attack is going to deal 2 damage it should need to HIT with two dice and/or deal a critical to the ship.

 

I'm not sure what they'll do with the capital ship's weapons but I could see Range 4 as a possibility for things like Turbolasers assuming they have any meaningful range.  I could also see some long range missile of sorts that ignores a range 3 maximum although balancing those could be a delicate operation.

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N-N-N-Necro!  I've just seen this model and I'm sorely tempted to pick it up myself, even though I'd much prefer to wait for an "official" version (mind you, I'd probably just end up buying that as well anyway, knowing me).

 

I like the idea of a ship with an Ion Cannon as a primary weapon, it's quite thematic for this vessel and I think it would fill a unique niche.  Here's my take:

 

Pilot Skill: 2
Attack: 3 (Ion Cannon Primary)
Agility:  1
Hull:  4
Shield:  6
Action Icons:  Focus, Target Lock
Upgrade Icons:  System Upgrade, Turret (for a Blaster Turret upgrade), Crew, Missile, Missile
Points: 30
Edited by FTS Gecko

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So, my thoughts, take them or leave them:

 

Whenever home-brewing a unit for a game, try and make the unit adhere to as many existing precedents as possible. This is partly to limit OP new rules, and also to make the rules seem more familiar and, thus, acceptable to other players who might not be as invested in home-brewing. You should only stray from existing precedents, IMO, where there is not a current rule for the desired effect (cf, the Missile Boat reload action I developed) and where you do invent new rules you have to expect them to be fundamentally game shaking and so consider how to limit them.

 

Sticking to precedents also helps you stay within the aesthetic of the game. FFG may, in future waves, diverge from their own aesthetic, but, IMO, it's their aesthetic to play with. Games are artistic and mechanical, and we have a duty to work within the mechanics of a system as developed. Again, I reiterate, this is just my opinion, but it reflects my ethos on the issue.

 

Therefore, having looked up stats, and such, I propose the base for this ship should be the Firespray. Looking at the stats, you can barely get a cigarette paper between the numbers, especially since the Blastboats seem to have similar sensor and jamming suites to Firesprays (RE: an evade roll that is more generous than Y-Wings or B-Wings) (this is especially true if we consider the versions we see in Empire At War FoC, even if those are in the hands of pirates)

 

The Skipray is marginally faster, so I'd perhaps consider having the same dial as the Firespray but with the 3 white forward green instead to represent that slight edge in cruising speed. (I think it was 90 MGLT compared to 80).

 

Onto the primary weapon though, I think it should have a 2 attack with the Falcon turret. Firstly, that's a known quantity in the game. Secondly, primary weapons are lasers in this game, and ions are always cannons or turrets. Thirdly, the wider cannon repeatedly states that ion cannons are hard to maintain, and so ships don't always fly with them. Fourthly, it prevents you having to contrive an 'ion attack' special rule that is not a known quantity.

 

I'd go for target lock and focus actions.

 

For upgrades, I'd go for cannon, missile, torpedo, crew.

 

I'd leave of systems upgrades, since it's in danger of becoming too ubiquitous. The Blastboat isn't particularly 'new' as well, and sys upgrade seems to be going to newer, higher-tech ships like the B-Wing and E-Wing.

 

If tractor beams every gain... traction (har har har), I'd give it a tractor slot. Although the Firespray and Tie Defender would need a retrofit for one of each too.

 

No idea about points, but that's partly because I don't play enough to trust my gut on that. Ballpark it around the same price as a Bounty Hunter at equiv. pilot skill, maybe a point or two more for the extra speed and the turret attack?

 

EDIT: Just realised that the shuttle has systems upgrade as well, which perhaps counters my argument about 'new-ness' Still tempted to leave it off the Skipray, but not sure. I could go either way on that.

Edited by Ktan

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