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Terraneaux

Terminator Armor and Precognitive Dodge

31 posts in this topic

"No" was the answer I got from a dev last year. You're not nimble enough to get out of the way (though you know it's coming), basically.

Edited by BrotharTearer
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If it were me as a GM, I'd be inclined to allow it. Reason being that I imagine most dodges is more a "bloody hell, incoming, move!" type action wheras the power seems more a "I know the shot will come roughly this way" so you step to the side in advance. This then isn't so much a hasty dodge but a pre-planned sidestep etc. But then this is just my fluff thoughts on that.

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This really seems like something that should have been stated explicitly in the book or the errata.

 

A lot of stuff, even stuff we've had answered by devs, don't make it into the Errata, because the Erratas are almost never updated.

I think Dark Heresy's last Errata update was in, like, 2009. And now they've moved on to abandon Dark Heresy and start a new edition. So don't expect too much out of erratas.

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Basically it makes Terminator armor explicitly worse against meltaguns or warp weapons, since you can't dodge them, period, and that's the best way to avoid those (superlatively damaging) weapons.  I mean, it's a bit of a tradeoff, but you're already trading away quite a bit of mobility and such.

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It doesnt necessarily need to be a simple step aside, could just lean slightly to one side. 

 

I would argue its about context. Dodging a single incoming shot, maybe. Dodging a grenade throw which will land bang on, no.

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Stepping aside or leaning, you still can't do it as well in huge armour. So I think the -20 is good.

 Well, there is the penalty to agility, but more importantly it's just a flat out 'no dodges' above and beyond that.

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Remember that Precog Dodge is technically an evasion reaction, just like dodge is. It's two different ways of reacting to an attack, but you're still reacting — the bottom line is you can't dodge in a terminator armour, no matter how you see the attack coming (in your minds eye or with your own eyes). It's just too slow.

Edited by BrotharTearer

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As above, I'd allow it on fluff terms purely due to how I interpret the description of the power, being a divination and almost allowing you to predict the move and react before its even fired. There are also the occasional references in stories and books to terminator armoured units moving fairly quickly when they need to. Penalties probably all over but thats another issue. However did some checking up and this is my full conclusion, take this as you will.

  1. Terminator Armour states you cannot Dodge. We know this.
  2. The rules for Evasion (p235) say that this can either be a Dodge or Parry however it states that only dodge can be used against ranged attacks and parry or dodge against melee attacks. I also dont know if BC has something like other books allowing you to parry primitive/thrown ranged attacks. If so, which one as I might need it for my character!
  3. Precognative dodge says that you can use it in a situation you are called upon to make an evasion test.

Since a ranged shot inbound can only be negated by a dodge and is the only available evasion action, the power cannot be used in substitution since you cannot take an evasion check. However it can be used against melee attacks as you get a parry evasion action which could be subbed for the power.

 

Granted it's a long winded logic, probably flawed but this is what I get for not having a brew of wonderful tea based beverage before writing!

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Pretty much. This precognition stuff is after all a game two players play, even without psychic powers: Shooting people is (among other stuff) based on estimating where they'll be when your bullet reaches them (including leading the shot for higher ranges and so on) while dodging is based on estimating on when your opponent is incapable of adjusting for your evasive action and where he'll be unable to shoot.

Precognitive Dodge lends you a hand there - you can start your evasive action exactly at your enemy's point of no return and dodge exactly into the direction where his shot will not reach you. However, it doesn't change the laws of physics: If there's flat-out no possibility of moving away from the shot, the only thing your precognition will tell you is "Better luck next time!", because if you start moving too early, the shooter will simply adjust his aim while if you start moving too late, the bullet hits you. And too early and too late are overlapping areas for people in a lumbering suit of Termie armour...

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The even simpler and easier way is "Whatever your GM says".

 

Not really, as that implies the GM having to choose between options. How is that simpler or easier in any way than a pre-determined short answer of disallowing it, making it a non-issue?

Edited by BrotharTearer

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I appreciate the comment BrotharTearer. Yes you could just give a flat "No" ruling and leave it at that which is a simple option I'll admit. I may have wrongly said simpler and easier, more intriguing was perhaps better, I should maybe correct that! Intriguing since it leaves the opportunity for a new and possibly interesting house rule.

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I say No, you can't dodge in TDA. Calgor Grim have already explained why.

Being unable to dodge is a serious disadvantage, but it's TDA after all. But we did invent over solution, we just allowed terminators to use two fields at once. First you test your normal field, like convertion field, and if it fails, then you cant test the armors inbuilt "field". Cause the description there says its not a field, but just REALLY STRONG armour plating. Cheesy, but not really overpowering.

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Makes sense to me as well Leto...

 

But by the same token in a way, Precognitive Dodge could be interpreted in many ways depending on the incoming attack... Especially in the case of Terminator Armour, maybe you move slightly so the shot automatically hits one of those thicker areas of the armor normally "under the effect of the field save", or perhaps you batter a bolt shell/solid projectile/grenade out of the air with your basically indestructible force weapon.

 

Or what if your psyker is under the effect of warptime? Still no "Dodges", but now the psykers senses and reactions are hypersensitive... and he can move very fast even in terminator armour.

 

Fluff vs Mechanics, age old battle.

Edited by Drachdhar

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