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firefighter35

List discussion/advice-Imperial missile

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Hi all,

Been having some success at my LGS with this list (undefeated actually) and was wondering what others thought?

Darth Vader + Swarm tactics+ cluster missiles

Howlrunner + swarm tactics

Scimitar squadron pilot + assault missiles

Academy pilot

Academy pilot

Simply, swarm the bomber with vader to get 9 shooting. Vader and bomber deal big damage to one or two big threats by turn 2. Then vader and Howlrunner swarm academy pilots for 9/9/8/8 shooting and I use bomber as damage soak & to plug up board/firing lines.

Haven't played a swarm list with it but it handles the double fire spray list, the standard suped up x wing trio and the falcon double a wing lists.

Comments or changes? Working on an adaptation list where an academy pilot is dropped for cluster missiles, a seismic bomb and proton torpedoes are added to bomber. Sounds good but I think bomber would then be a HUGE target.

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Losing the Cluster Missiles in favor of Concussion Missiles is almost always a straight increase of damage unless you're flying alongside Captain Jonus. On Vader, those Concussions ought to be Focused as well, meaning that you gave to roll 2 or more blanks to NOT roll 4 damage!

Other than that, it looks fairly solid. I'd be inclined to focus Howlrunner first, so you may want to give her some more survivability.

Also, consider giving Squad Leader to Vader instead of Swarm Tactics. He loses one of his 2 actions to give a 2nd action to one of your allies, which gives you a lot of unpredictability.

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I also urge you to consider how that Bomber will get the TL you want it to have so it can fire off that assault missile at a range where it will not hit your own guys.  Switch the missiles between the two ships and you can have Vader firing off the Assault early while the Bomber can TL while getting into range to fire the Cluster.

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Actually I have been using concussion missiles I was mistaken in original post.

I was using squad leader a bunch and found my bomber shooting late and getting into some damage tribal early as howlrunner was the initial wave. Thought double swarm might give me better shooting advantage ?

Switching missiles seems sound to me as well.

As for record, list is 8-0 in tournament play and numerous wins in casual. Beaten lists with y wing b wing combos, xwing trio, falcon plus a wings, double firespray, and an interesting mix of others. Some players were good but I usually see the upper hand by turn 2 or 3.

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It looks like a good tournament list, in the way that it is flexible.

I would consider some more defence as all the upgrades are for attack, but nothing critical really.

 

I have these models so I might try it out:)

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Ok new adaptation of this list that MAY be more survivable? Less ships by one.....

Here it is:

Darth Vader + squad leader + concussion missiles (35 pts)

Howlrunner + swarm tactics + stealth device (23 pts)

Scimitar squadron pilot + concussion missiles + cluster missiles + seismic charge (26 pts)

Black squadron pilot + swarm tactics (16 pts)

Total 100

Idea is the have vader give focus to TL of bomber and double himself from range 3 for missiles. Then Howlrunner chains swarm onto tie then bomber to shoot 9/8/8/8 turn two. Bomber clusters with focus from vader again then drops bomb. Then form loose formation to keep shooting 9/8/8/8 or in a jam 9/8/8/4. This should take out 1-2 big threats by turn 2 or 3 and then swarm tactics should clean up rest. Not sure if this works but an idea???

Edited by Firefighter34

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The original list looks fine to me. I wouldn't drop a ship for too many upgrades, or howl will be of less use and youd be just as well to bring another tie. You will be fine without stealth device, imo. Howl will die anyways, and swarm tactics already lets her be of use. I'd also agree to switch the missiles around, likely more consistent damage.

Have you played any 7 tie swarms?

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No haven't played any swamps at all! Lots of rebels and not as many Imperial players around here tournament wise anyway. Would like to try it as this is one of the only ways to know if this is a "real" list in terms of tournament viability.

 

I like the idea of some defense but a good offense is sometimes the best defense I find? Not sure the recently proposed list is better just using some of the ideas shot around thus far. I like that some have found this to be a good list and hope guys/gals try it and let me know if they have any success. The original hasn't let me down yet but I am eager to give the more defensive list a try. Not sure the extra upgrades makes it worth losing the extra ship/shots per turn? :blink:

 

Thanks to all who have commented by the way. It is definitely helping with ideas etc! ;)

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I simply say keep us informed, I feel the only true test will be for you to try the new list Firefighter34 as you are the control group for this list and the last 

 

Also for other to test the old list and see how it fares in their play groups.

 

Personaly my only thoughts on list 2 would be to swap swarm tactics onto Vader and put squad leader on Howlrunner so that Vader can make the most of his missile. As this is shot at range he should be ok defending and it gives the opponent only two choices, try and take out a 4 evade dice Howl first to stop the squad leadering or the bomber with the missiles. I dont feel either is the easiest of tasks.

 

You could help defend them all by dropping swarm tactics on the Black Squadron and giving the black Draw their Fire, This will hopefully help keep any of the prime targets alive long enough for the initial tricks to pay off.

 

So my way it now looks like this

 

Vader + Swarm Tactics + Concussion

Howlrunner + Squad Leader + Stealth

Black + DTF

Scimitar + Cluster + Concussion + Seismic

99pts initiative

 

If it works try taking an Assault to make 100 or drop the Seismic to take 2 Assaults and keep 99,

If you want to get bold drop the Seismic for an Advanced Proton Torp who knows, 

 

Test then Tweek is my motto just don't have enough time to test myself, I have to live vicariously

 

Good Luck all

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Hey all,

Tweaked this list one more time and oh my god!! I went 4-0 with the new list last night at our LGS xwing Xmas tourney!

Ran this list:

Darth vader + swarm tactics + concussion missiles + engine upgrade

Howlrunner + squad leader

Scimitar squadron pilot + concussion missiles + cluster missiles + seismic bomb

Black squadron pilot + draw their fire

Total 100 points

Ran it like this:

BSP + bomber + howlrunner ran as a unit with bomber and BSP in front. Vader was split off to the other side.

Turn 1 ran vader 5 + boost + barrel roll. Almost behind their squad! Then went conservative with trio to set up range 3 launch.

Turn 2 vader either caused their squad to split or he was behind them. Launch TL + focus missiles. Ship 1 gone or almost. Bomber now at range 3. Bomber let missiles go with focus from howler. Howler and BSP went faster to get closer fire bonuses.

Turn 3 bomber dropped bomb and cleared and howler and BSP regrouped with vader. Bonuses there. Bomber fired cluster with bonus from howler as the reform was close. Bomb either hit some or caused the remaining fleet to slow or turn. Either way by turn 4 or 5 I had them.

Vader was amazing as a distracter which set up my main force for multi missiles from bomber and support from ties!

Thinking an interceptor could also pull off the distraction with increased dice? Missiles from vader was awesome and usually his plus bomber initial took out a big target! Most of time turn two was 4 vs 2 and turn 3 was 4 vs 1 or 3 vs 1. Always had the advantage and most times had their squad split turn 2. Splits equalled dead!

Played xwing trio, falcon double a wing, a rebel 4 some and a mini swarm list (6 ties).

Comments and suggestions on new adaptation? Wow this list is fun and does do well. I am enjoying it. 10-0 all adaptations here so far!

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I'm going to mention that you may NOT want initiative when using missiles that need a TL to fire.  You want to avoid the "you move into range 3 and finally manage to get a TL on someone and then they move out of your arc or so close you can't use your missiles," situation.  When I hear "with focus from Howlrunner" I'm often wondering if you shouldn't have gotten the TL from it instead as you'd have a better grasp on the situation later in the movement stage.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ordnance does NOT gain any bonus from Howlrunner's ability.  Howlie only works on a ships PRIMARY weapon which means no help to a Cluster Missile at all.  Jonus gives nice bonuses to secondary weapons like missiles and is the big booster you often see used with Cluster Missiles.

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Point about moving and TL is a good one. Thanks

However the bonus focus comes from the squad leader ability on howl runner not his built in pilot ability so yes I can focus that or TL as suggested. The SSP is doing is own FREE action nothing to do with howl runner PA and ordinance vs primary weapon bonuses. With squad leader from howl runner I don't need Jonus' ability plus I save points not running Jonus.

Edited by Firefighter34

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Perhaps the confusion is when I read, "Bomber fired cluster with bonus from howler" as I interpret that to mean you are using Howlrunner's ability as a bonus when firing the Cluster Missile as opposed to using an action granted to you through Squad Leader.  It's true that Squad Leader could give the SSP another action to use allowing it to have a focus for ONE of the two Cluster Missile attacks but that is slightly different from hinting that Howlrunner is improving both shots.

 

Howlrunner can still be nice with the squad because you've still got one ship that only attacks with primary weapons and then two more that will once missiles are gone.  After that it is just good because of the high Pilot Skill and the ability to hand off its action to someone else; this can be really helpful when handed to a bomber that moved and didn't have anything to shoot at when it did.

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I'm going to mention that you may NOT want initiative when using missiles that need a TL to fire.  You want to avoid the "you move into range 3 and finally manage to get a TL on someone and then they move out of your arc or so close you can't use your missiles," situation.  When I hear "with focus from Howlrunner" I'm often wondering if you shouldn't have gotten the TL from it instead as you'd have a better grasp on the situation later in the movement stage.

 

IMPORTANT NOTE:  Ordnance does NOT gain any bonus from Howlrunner's ability.  Howlie only works on a ships PRIMARY weapon which means no help to a Cluster Missile at all.  Jonus gives nice bonuses to secondary weapons like missiles and is the big booster you often see used with Cluster Missiles.

 

I also suffered the same confusion about Howl buffing the cluster. Pleased we cleared that up.

 

second, I too was going to mention the squad leader to target lock issue.

 

I have found that you are much better to take the focus with the bomber as its own action and then the lock from the action given by Howl, this lets you select targets that were not options before due to them moving later in turn. It is not always true but if they are moving later in turn then they are generally a juicier prize to take down.

Receiving the target lock just frees up options and as suggested by others means that the ship you locked cant move out of range.

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Hey all,

Tweaked this list one more time and oh my god!! I went 4-0 with the new list last night at our LGS xwing Xmas tourney!

Ran this list:

Darth vader + swarm tactics + concussion missiles + engine upgrade

Howlrunner + squad leader

Scimitar squadron pilot + concussion missiles + cluster missiles + seismic bomb

Black squadron pilot + draw their fire

Total 100 points

Ran it like this:

BSP + bomber + howlrunner ran as a unit with bomber and BSP in front. Vader was split off to the other side.

Turn 1 ran vader 5 + boost + barrel roll. Almost behind their squad! Then went conservative with trio to set up range 3 launch.

Turn 2 vader either caused their squad to split or he was behind them. Launch TL + focus missiles. Ship 1 gone or almost. Bomber now at range 3. Bomber let missiles go with focus from howler. Howler and BSP went faster to get closer fire bonuses.

Turn 3 bomber dropped bomb and cleared and howler and BSP regrouped with vader. Bonuses there. Bomber fired cluster with bonus from howler as the reform was close. Bomb either hit some or caused the remaining fleet to slow or turn. Either way by turn 4 or 5 I had them.

Vader was amazing as a distracter which set up my main force for multi missiles from bomber and support from ties!

Thinking an interceptor could also pull off the distraction with increased dice? Missiles from vader was awesome and usually his plus bomber initial took out a big target! Most of time turn two was 4 vs 2 and turn 3 was 4 vs 1 or 3 vs 1. Always had the advantage and most times had their squad split turn 2. Splits equalled dead!

Played xwing trio, falcon double a wing, a rebel 4 some and a mini swarm list (6 ties).

Comments and suggestions on new adaptation? Wow this list is fun and does do well. I am enjoying it. 10-0 all adaptations here so far!

 

My final question / suggestion.

The way you say you flew this squad it would seem you had no need for Swarm Tactics on Vader, if this is true that it proved un-necessary then try out dropping it and upping the Scimitar to a Gamma for a little extra flex in PS moving and shooting, lets you move the BSP or Gamma in either order also. 

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Sorry about the confusion on my behalf.

As for focus TL issue you are both correct. Focus from bomber and then benefit from howlers later movement to TL is better.

Thanks for the help! Lots of good stuff suggested!

Liking this list as I am tired of all imperial players playing swarm!

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