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lord inquisitor Iannise

Can navigators be psykers?

53 posts in this topic

 

There's an official statement on it in the Errata, and I'm pretty sure the general line was "No."

could you elaborate?

 

 

Copy/Pasted from the Errata

 

Question: Since Navigators wield Warp powers, but do not possess a Psy Rating, can they gain a Psy Rating through the Wyrdling mutation?
Answer: No. Navigators are not psykers and can never become psykers or gain a Psy Rating. They have their own mutation 
 
Admittedly the question was about a specific way for Navigators to gain a Psy Rating, but the answer is pretty unambiguous.

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There is some text that says whenever a Navigator would gain a mutation, from any source (save maybe direct Chaos toying), they always roll on their own table, regardless, and since Wyrdling, or another ability that says gain PR aren't there, it's a nope. Navigators are horribly inbred, and so if Navigator A and Navigator B have kids, with neither being a Psyker, nope, and that child, now Navigator AB will be likely expected to breed with Navigator C, so the path continues.

 

It is my understanding, anyway, that Navigators breed with other Navigators, to keep the recessive Navigator gene present and potent. If Navigator A happened to instead breed with $lut Psyker V, there might be a psyker born, but that child would not manifest the Navigator gene, and third eye. They might be able to later breed with another Navigator, and create a Navigator offspring, but psyker power doesn't breed as certainly, and the Houses wouldn't stand for it. Rampant Psykerdom, and the possible Corruption and Perils it brings along could decimate a House, and Navigators already have an interesting connection to the warp; best not to risk attracting worse things. Also, these ancient lines look at breeding like royals, or people with show dogs/horses; very specific who breeds where. Again, my opinion, somewhat.

 

In a story I'm tentatively working on, my Navigator MAY eventually have her second child with her lover, who isn't a Navigator (or a Psyker, for what this thread is about), and I'm kind of thinking what I might do to that child to make them "special". Since she's a Navigator, and he's an Ace Pilot, I might allow said offspring some sort of latent ability to improve reaction time, sort of like Anakin Force piloting, but not so good as that. Not born yet, might not be a pilot, and people still age at the regular rate, so I've got some time to think on it. ;)

Edited by venkelos

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

so basically what i'm getting from this is Navigators can't be psykers for the same reason asians can't also be africans there mutually exclusive. 

Edited by lord inquisitor Iannise
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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

I would guess the main reason is to stop navigators from taking the psyker mutation to get that sweet psy rating bonus on their navigator powers.

Also the same reason that prevents vampires from becoming werewolves, because stacking templates gets really silly really fast.

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

I would guess the main reason is to stop navigators from taking the psyker mutation to get that sweet psy rating bonus on their navigator powers.

Also the same reason that prevents vampires from becoming werewolves, because stacking templates gets really silly really fast.

Tell that to Underworld. ;)

P.S. Kate Beckinsale is hot.

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

I would guess the main reason is to stop navigators from taking the psyker mutation to get that sweet psy rating bonus on their navigator powers.

Also the same reason that prevents vampires from becoming werewolves, because stacking templates gets really silly really fast.

Tell that to Underworld. ;)

P.S. Kate Beckinsale is hot.

 

 

This post is full of wisdom.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure Navigators cannot be psykers from a fluff standpoint. If it does occur it seems like something that would be great as a ridiculously powerful enemy rather than a player character.

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

so basically what i'm getting from this is Navigators can't be psykers for the same reason asians can't also be africans there mutually exclusive. 

 

Um, no, you can have a person who is both African and Asian.

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There is some text that says whenever a Navigator would gain a mutation, from any source (save maybe direct Chaos toying), they always roll on their own table, regardless, and since Wyrdling, or another ability that says gain PR aren't there, it's a nope. 

I think that rolling on the general mutation table could come up with certain Origin Path or Lineage choices.

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There is some text that says whenever a Navigator would gain a mutation, from any source (save maybe direct Chaos toying), they always roll on their own table, regardless, and since Wyrdling, or another ability that says gain PR aren't there, it's a nope. 

I think that rolling on the general mutation table could come up with certain Origin Path or Lineage choices.

 

 

If an origin gives you a choice from a list of mutations, or a specific mutation then I would allow a Navigator to take that, since they aren't "rolling" on a table. However this still doesn't get around the refreshingly clear ruling that a Navigator can never become psykers or gain a Psy Rating.

 

In your campaign you are free to do whatever you want as always, but that is the official ruling.

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Oh, I'm not disputing that Navigators never get a PR. I meant more that there are instances where other mutation tables are referenced in the chargen process, and I don't recall seeing a note that said "a Navigator who picks Choice X for Lineage (for example - say it grants a roll on the general mutation table) rolls on the Navigator mutation table instead of the general mutation table."

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Um, no, you can have a person who is both African and Asian.

It's binary. So no, not really.

To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

I would guess the main reason is to stop navigators from taking the psyker mutation to get that sweet psy rating bonus on their navigator powers.

Also the same reason that prevents vampires from becoming werewolves, because stacking templates gets really silly really fast.

Well, maybe partly it is true that Navigators cannot become Psykers due to balance reasons. Because it is true that it would be a monstrously powerful thing.

That being said, I think it has a lot more to do with the setting overall than anything else. Navigators and Psykers are simply completely different things, and Navigators are effectively abhumans - abhumans that, more than being a "simple" offshoot of humanity, were originally engineered as navigators, and then suffered millennia of planned, premeditated inbreeding in order to preserve the recessive navigator gene.

Also, it is my personal interpretation that SHOULD such a situation arise where an Navigator would otherwise develop psychic power (of the psyker kind), the nature of his.. nature.. would render them incompatible. The psyker-powers would undoubtedly tie into his third eye, like a giant lightning rod directing the twisting warps of the.. warp.

So a Navigator can never become a psyker.

And should he still become a psyker somehow, he's still not a psyker.

Lots of interpretation and opinion in that, though.

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Yeah it's confusing - especially since at that point in the character creation table they still haven't officially been declared as a Navigator yet. I still think that because the text for a Navigator says to always roll on their table instead of the general Mutation table, then any mutations you gain through character creation should be re-rolled on that table. It seems most in line with the intent of what a Navigator is.

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Um, no, you can have a person who is both African and Asian.

It's binary. So no, not really.

 

It really, really is not binary. But it seems you've never met someone who's half-Asian and half-black.

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It really, really is not binary. But it seems you've never met someone who's half-Asian and half-black.

A movie called Underworld did something similar to this.

P.s. Did I mention Kate Beckinsale is hot?

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To chime in on what others have already said, Navigators can never be or become psykers.

This presumably have something to do with them essentially being their own offshoot of humanity, technically being abhumans.

so basically what i'm getting from this is Navigators can't be psykers for the same reason asians can't also be africans there mutually exclusive. 

 

Um, no, you can have a person who is both African and Asian.

 

tiger woods is both African and Asian but he looks African.  Navigators and psykers can have babies but there be one or the other.  

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Navigators and psykers can have babies but there be one or the other.  

 

 

Editting out the parts of this thread I wish would go away, the book says that the Navigator gene is recessive so that if a Navigator has a child with someone who's not a Navigator, they definitely won't have a Warp Eye. Not sure if their child would be psychic. I would assume so, but it's never been made clear I think.

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Navigators and psykers can have babies but there be one or the other.  

 

 

Editting out the parts of this thread I wish would go away, the book says that the Navigator gene is recessive so that if a Navigator has a child with someone who's not a Navigator, they definitely won't have a Warp Eye. Not sure if their child would be psychic. I would assume so, but it's never been made clear I think.

 

i over simplified it for the sake of conversation. 

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Concerning Navigators and rolling on the Mutations table, allow me to assist you with a quote from the Errata:

 

Question: Since Navigators wield Warp powers, bud to not possess a Psy Rating, can they gain a Psy Rating through the Wyrdling mutation?

Answer: No. Navigators are not psykers and can never become psykers or gain a Psy Rating. They have their own mutation chart (Table 7-2: Navigator Mutations, on page 182 of the Rogue Trader Core Rulebook), and should never roll on Table 14-3: Mutations on page 369 of the Rogue Trader Core Rulebook.

This means, that even if your character hasn't been declared by the game system as a Navigator at Character Creation, you still roll on the Navigator table, due to your character being a Navigator at birth, due to genetic engineering, breeding and so on. So if you're planning a Navigator, or chooses a Navigator career, your mutations must be from the Navigator Mutations chart. The Tainted (Mutant) option states that you should roll, and as such you default to the Navigator table as noted in the Errata. That you may pay to choose doesn't let you pick from the other chart. Contaminated Environs from Into The Storm also specifies rolling on that table.

 

I guess you could make the argument that you don't know what you'll play until you get to the bottom row, but I find that unlikely. Should that be the case, well, we hit a snag. Best would probably be to re-roll or pick the corresponding table entry from the other table.

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The 2nd printing of the RT core book talks about this a bit on p. 179.

 

"Are Navigators psykers?  Navigators are not marked as psykers in the traditional sense within the Imperium, though they do have a connection with the warp and use it's power to fuel their abilities.  For all game purposes, however, a Navigator character is considered a psyker.  This means that weapons, powers, and creatures that have special effects on a character is is a psyker will have similar effects on a Navigator character."

 

I can see how this open to interpreting, but I'd say that as a Navigator is a psyker already for game purposes with access to specific Navigator powers only, then they can't learn any other psyker abilities.  The lack of a Psi rating also, as earlier noted.

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