The Racketeer, shop decks and 'take'

[0beron 151]

Greetings,

 

  I am having a disagreement with my co player on the Racketeer card (City expansion, Adventure card), specifically when you roll under your Craft, "take card from any shop deck for free". 

   Since the shop cards are set up per the instructions; only the Potions and Pets decks are shuffled, it is clear to draw the top card on those decks. My co player says I must do the same for the various other shop decks, Magic Emporium, Armoury, etc., - even though those are not arranged randomly, but grouped per type or class of object, etc.

  So if the Magic item deck was arranged so that the top one was, the scroll, for example, I have to take that, in my co player's opinion.

  So I went to the rules for the City and cited from the section 'Shop Decks' that " if an encounter allows a character gain or take a card from the Armoury, Magic Emporium, Stables, or Purchase deck for free, he chooses which card to receive".

  My co player says that is not true because it should say specifically on the card that one can take from the Armoury, Stables, etc.   ie; it must say which shop(s), to guarantee the choice of object.

 

  Is there any other faq or official or reasonable/extra information that proves what I believe is the actual intent of the card *and* the actual rule, which I've cited?  Thanks. (btw, I consider this to be obtuse and stubborn on their part to not see what is obvious)

[adjogi 91]

Well I don't know what extra information your co player needs other than the rulebook!

 

In my opinion, you are 100% correct Oberon. The rules clearly state It is only Potion and Pet shop decks that you draw the top card. In regard to all other shop decks it clearly says if an encounter allows you to "....gain or TAKE a card..." you choose which card to receive and since the Racketeer states to TAKE a card I would think the rulebook should suffice.

 

I can see his/her point of view with the wording on the Racketeer but I don't agree with them. It seems pretty clear to me.

Edited December 22, 2013 by adjogi

[The_Warlock 171]

Greetings,

 

  I am having a disagreement with my co player on the Racketeer card (City expansion, Adventure card), specifically when you roll under your Craft, "take card from any shop deck for free". 

 

(...)

  Is there any other faq or official or reasonable/extra information that proves what I believe is the actual intent of the card *and* the actual rule, which I've cited?  Thanks. (btw, I consider this to be obtuse and stubborn on their part to not see what is obvious)

 

I really don't see what's the point of the complaint. I could understand if the wording on the cards were slightly different or unclear, but in this example the Racketeer card and the Rulebook share the same wording. How can somebody misunderstand this?

 

Shop Decks

The Armoury, Magic Emporium, Pet, Potion, Stables, Wanted

Poster, and Purchase decks are also referred to as shop decks.

Cards from shop decks are treated in all respects like Adventure

Cards, except that when they are discarded, they are returned

to the bottom of their appropriate deck and are available to

other characters once more. Should there be no cards left of a

particular item, then that item is not available at that time.

If an encounter allows a character to gain or take a card from

the Potion, Pet, or Wanted Poster deck for free, he must draw

the top card of the deck.

If an encounter allows a character to gain or take a card from

the Armoury, Magic Emporium, Stables, or Purchase deck for

free, he chooses which card to receive.

 

Racketeer

Roll 1 die. If the result is equal to or higher than your Craft, discard 1 of your Objects If it is lower than your Craft, take 1 card from any shop deck for free, then discard this card.

 

The City actually changed the concept of Purchase card we learned in the base game. We used to have only Purchase cards and Stable cards, now with all other decks of cards that can be purchased they decided to create a new sub-system which are the "Shop Decks". Shop decks are defined as above and most notably include Purchase Cards, Stable Cards from Sacred Pool, and Wanted Posters.

 

The Racketeer is one of the few cards that instruct doing exactly what's written in the Rulebook, so arguing about it is like arguing about the Chapel allowing you to gain 1 life after rolling a 5.

Edited December 27, 2013 by The_Warlock

[0beron 151]

Well, thanks for all that.

 

You are speaking to the choir here and I showed her the explicit rules, etc.   No man has had a more stubborn wife.

 

We also have a running argument about scales-pulling when a player is in jail or enslaved.

 

"Makes no sense" she says, basically comparing to the scale pulling to her movement/rolls.  I tried to explain to her that the scale pulling is just something everyone does every turn, unless they miss a turn.

 

It's turn related, not movement related.  She still refuses to see that.

 

If I sit here long enough I'll remember the other twisted thing she refuses to understand....

 

but not.    We only have each other to play with, and "on average" we may only play once a month, so her carping could be worse.

[The_Warlock 171]

Well, thanks for all that.

 

You are speaking to the choir here and I showed her the explicit rules, etc.   No man has had a more stubborn wife.

 

Ah, I see. The mysterious player is your wife; I recall you writing that you mostly play Talisman with her.

 

However, I think she only missed the technical change introduced by the new concept of Shop Decks. Unfortunately, many players don't read the rulebooks carefully and don't give them a second read out of the game sessions, me included.

 

It took me about 7 months after buying City to re-read the paragraph correctly and understand I can also take a Wanted Poster or a Purchase Card from the Racketeer, but the rule is there and it is written clearly.

 

 

We also have a running argument about scales-pulling when a player is in jail or enslaved.

 

"Makes no sense" she says, basically comparing to the scale pulling to her movement/rolls.  I tried to explain to her that the scale pulling is just something everyone does every turn, unless they miss a turn.

 

It's turn related, not movement related.  She still refuses to see that.

 

Drawing Dragon Tokens

At the start of each player’s turn, he must draw one dragon token at random from the pool and resolve its effect. After the

effect of the dragon token is resolved, the player continues his turn as normal.

 

Of course, you're right on this one too. Your wife thinks the scales are triggered by movement, but it's not what is written. I agree, however, that it would be better if they were triggered by movement, because placing scales in Jail gives way to some problems and makes no sense, thematically.

[0beron 151]

The best part is the mysterious wife/player person has no use for these forums, but I'm not going to trash her needlessly. She is just stubborn, and a little bit selfish, LOL.

 

I decided to agree with her on the scales<jail+enslavement.

 

  Thanks for all your help and suggestions and

 

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!