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Sebastian Yorke

Glorified Bodyguard PCs (GM ranting)

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AS WRITTEN IN THE CORE RULEBOOK


"The Explorer has practiced so frequently with his weapons that they practically leap into his hands, ready for action. He can Ready as a Free Action when armed with a pistol or basic class ranged weapon, or a melee weapon that can be wielded in one hand."

 

No the word "stow" doesn't appear anywhere in there so stowing a weapon is still a half action unless you buy the magnetic holsters from the DH armory or buy some other talent that I'm not aware of. I don't know why it is you're always arguing for excessive permissiveness but I've noticed in the last few days almost every time someone said that some sort of craziness should not only be permitted but is fully sanctioned by the rules it's been you.

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AS WRITTEN IN THE CORE RULEBOOK

"The Explorer has practiced so frequently with his weapons that they practically leap into his hands, ready for action. He can Ready as a Free Action when armed with a pistol or basic class ranged weapon, or a melee weapon that can be wielded in one hand."

 

No the word "stow" doesn't appear anywhere in there so stowing a weapon is still a half action unless you buy the magnetic holsters from the DH armory or buy some other talent that I'm not aware of. I don't know why it is you're always arguing for excessive permissiveness but I've noticed in the last few days almost every time someone said that some sort of craziness should not only be permitted but is fully sanctioned by the rules it's been you.

I think your reading of the last post was somewhat hasty. The Quick Draw talent allows you to 'Ready' as a free action. Ready is a specific combat action, which includes both drawing weapons and stowing them, just like LordBlades wrote.

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AS WRITTEN IN THE CORE RULEBOOK

"The Explorer has practiced so frequently with his weapons that they practically leap into his hands, ready for action. He can Ready as a Free Action when armed with a pistol or basic class ranged weapon, or a melee weapon that can be wielded in one hand."

 

No the word "stow" doesn't appear anywhere in there so stowing a weapon is still a half action unless you buy the magnetic holsters from the DH armory or buy some other talent that I'm not aware of. I don't know why it is you're always arguing for excessive permissiveness but I've noticed in the last few days almost every time someone said that some sort of craziness should not only be permitted but is fully sanctioned by the rules it's been you.

I think your reading of the last post was somewhat hasty. The Quick Draw talent allows you to 'Ready' as a free action. Ready is a specific combat action, which includes both drawing weapons and stowing them, just like LordBlades wrote.

 

It's poorly written. Technically when read RAW it would ONLY apply to stowing weapons (It reads WHEN ARMED) but we all know that's not what the developers intended. You could make the case either way. I tend to rule that it applies to stowing as well as drawing since with a slung basic weapon you are basically just dropping it and who hasn't seen various incarnations of drawing firing and sheathing a weapon almost instantly. IRL there is an entire martial art that is dedicated to the drawing, striking with and resheathing a blade in a single "Action". (Iaijutzu for those who might be interested.)

Edited by Radwraith

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If you allow stowing as a Free Action things can get really absurd. "I stow my bolter, draw my pistols, stow my pistols, draw my axe."

 And what exactly is the problem with that?

 

It's not like you can make more attacks or anything, and it's not like what you described is any more stupid than 'I draw my 1st lasgun, drop it, draw my 2nd lasgun, drop it....'rinse and repeat until your opponent is completely buried in lasguns, all in the span of 5 seconds.

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The problem is that it's ridiculous and physically impossible. :)

 

And you can't drop infinite lasguns because you can't carry more than one normally.

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The problem is that it's ridiculous and physically impossible. :)

 

And you can't drop infinite lasguns because you can't carry more than one normally.

How so? I don't recall there being any rule regarding the number of weapons you can carry apart from weight, and Lasguns are light enough for a strong dude to carry around quite a few.

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+1

 

I would practice that you can draw or stow, with the same ability. This is why, however, I'm glad that SW Saga Edition (thank you Emperor, for being a reference, too) they have Swift Actions, which aren't quite free, and so you only have so many. It should be no more difficult to holster a weapon than draw it, and any ability that covers one SHOULD cover both. (I'm not saying that's what the book says, but I AM saying they don't always right intelligent stuff, or what they mean.)

 

Sometimes, you CAN'T just settle for RAW; sometimes, you have to just look at your GM, and make them make a ruling. Just like they won't let you soliloquize for 30 minutes with a free action, if you do too many little things, you'll get stopped, so someone else can act. They won't let you do too many shenanigans with your weapons because they'll say so.

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My feelings when I come back to the thread after almost a week away from this forum:

 

 

Oh come on, we've hated worse than this. I haven't seen any death threats yet.

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The problem is that it's ridiculous and physically impossible. :)

 

And you can't drop infinite lasguns because you can't carry more than one normally.

How so? I don't recall there being any rule regarding the number of weapons you can carry apart from weight, and Lasguns are light enough for a strong dude to carry around quite a few.

 

 

There aren't any in RT, but I go with the DW, OW, and BC guidelines that it's 1 heavy or basic weapon (two-handed) + 2 one-handed weapons + maybe a backup knife.

 

You simply don't have the physical space on your body to carry 5-6 rifles.

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The problem is that it's ridiculous and physically impossible. :)

 

And you can't drop infinite lasguns because you can't carry more than one normally.

How so? I don't recall there being any rule regarding the number of weapons you can carry apart from weight, and Lasguns are light enough for a strong dude to carry around quite a few.

 

There aren't any in RT, but I go with the DW, OW, and BC guidelines that it's 1 heavy or basic weapon (two-handed) + 2 one-handed weapons + maybe a backup knife.

 

You simply don't have the physical space on your body to carry 5-6 rifles.

IRL, I've seen people carry a rifle w/ 210 rnds, pistol w/ 60 rnds, two knives, 4 grenades, and a radio on their back. Anothe person carried a rifle, shotgun, pistol, compact pistol, kbar, 2 knives/gerber, and 3 grenades. Another guy carried a rifle w/ a grenade launcher, pistol, 8 grenades, machette and skittles (he had a thang for them, what can I say).

So yep, that is about the norm depending on your size. Probably go with 1 hvy weapon or 2 basic, 2-3 pistols, and 3-7 knives/grenades IMHO though. A backpack can carry more, but probably won't because supplies are in there.

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Keeping in mind we're talking about a game set 38000 years in to the future where people got to say a prayer before turning the lights on to smooth the soul of the switch.

 

As for using a pistol+sword in melee, it is not just a thing for Marines; Guard sergeants and officers typically goes about with this set-up, laspistol+chainsword...and yes it cost more because it is two widely different weapons types that to me, it is natural that it costs more to get to use both with efficiency.

 

For the OP, it seems you got stuck with the fighter syndrome in your party, as some are quite content just to kill things,use fancy weapons and possibly intimidate (their only social skill perhaps?) their way in/out of any and all situations.

 

RT got leadership and the ship

Senechal got smarts

Void-Master got the ship operationg

Hey someone needs to be top killy guy!

Edited by Braddoc

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As for using a pistol+sword in melee, it is not just a thing for Marines; Guard sergeants and officers typically goes about with this set-up, laspistol+chainsword...and yes it cost more because it is two widely different weapons types that to me, it is natural that it costs more to get to use both with efficiency.

 

 

My issue with it is that you pay more (not a problem in itself) for less and it's strictly more effective to melee with 2 melee weapons and use Quick Draw to sheathe your off-hand and draw a pistol whenever you need some range.

 

EDIT: And even if you disallow sheathing with Quick Draw, dual wielding two melee weapon+a pistol fixed to your armor and fired via MIU Weapon Interface is also more effective than dual wielding sword&pistol.

Edited by LordBlades

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My issue with it is that you pay more (not a problem in itself) for less and it's strictly more effective to melee with 2 melee weapons and use Quick Draw to sheathe your off-hand and draw a pistol whenever you need some range.

Then do that. Call it breaking a stereotype. Go on, nobody's forcing you to carbon copy.

EDIT: And even if you disallow sheathing with Quick Draw, dual wielding two melee weapon+a pistol fixed to your armor and fired via MIU Weapon Interface is also more effective than dual wielding sword&pistol.

Well duh. Edited by Tenebrae

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For the OP, it seems you got stuck with the fighter syndrome in your party, as some are quite content just to kill things,use fancy weapons and possibly intimidate (their only social skill perhaps?) their way in/out of any and all situations.

 

RT got leadership and the ship

Senechal got smarts

Void-Master got the ship operationg

Hey someone needs to be top killy guy!

 

the Arch Militant really requires a greater level of pathos in order to work as a member of the party beyond "blaaarg I kill". I guess you can't really stop the guy but I think a really quick way to tell whether an AM player is going to be a total **** from the begiining is to ask "what are your character's hopes and dreams, at this moment what does he hope to achive most with his life?"

 

If the anwser is some sort of vague crap about getting rich, gathering a super killy set of gear or getting street cred etc then you know right then he's on the wrong path. The other classes all kind of have skills that will ultimately force some sort of non-violent interactions but if the AM character has no objectives beyond "be killy" he may very well rot in that ghetto.

 

Although he's not alone there because the missionary is in just as much of a position to be a total **** and honestly has more incentive right off to be the biggest king **** he can. Although that creates the oppertunity to examine why he'ws such a **** and maybe develope that into something but once again that requires a player to really develope him without much provocation to do so.

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Remember also that many RT's will not want a "Bodyguard" who's sole ambition is to be a sociopathic murderer! RT's by their nature must conduct negotiations and diplomacy as well as manage considerable assets. In a well run game it will NOT always be the answer to greet the next encounter with a hail of full auto weapon fire! Just sayin...

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My issue with it is that you pay more (not a problem in itself) for less and it's strictly more effective to melee with 2 melee weapons and use Quick Draw to sheathe your off-hand and draw a pistol whenever you need some range.

Then do that. Call it breaking a stereotype. Go on, nobody's forcing you to carbon copy

How is any if that relevant to my original point, that sword&pistol is undersupprted by the rules despite being quite frequent in fluff.

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I know it is better, but it's less cool to do so; I mean when I was playing to RT, I had my power sword and plasma pistol (the usual "classic" load out really) with ambidextrous.  I was closing in, or they were coming toward me, fired a few shot of the ol' plasma pistol.  Got in melee?  Used my powersword or hip shot my pistol for added effects.  The only thing I could not do was a two-weapon wielder attack or a swift attack with both, which to me wasn't that much of a loss as I would prefer swift attack with my power sword only as the plasma pistol had very limited shots and took 3 flippin' rounds to reload.  The GM was combat oriented and less about RP sadly, so spending 3 rounds to reload was basically just stepping out of the combat and whistling a tune...

 

At any rate, it felt more..heroic to charge in with a pistol and melee weapon...and let's not forget wearing a fancy overly large and non useful hat instead of anything with an armour value, just to show to crew why you're the boss and not them

Edited by Braddoc

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At any rate, it felt more..heroic to charge in with a pistol and melee weapon...and let's not forget wearing a fancy overly large and non useful hat instead of anything with an armour value, just to show to crew why you're the boss and not them

 

Buzz an Ork in a game I played always wore a commissar's hat.

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It seems I'm rather late to the party. Nonetheless, I offer the following to the original poster:

 

I once asked my DnD 3.5 group if they've seen anybody else besides me take the Leadership feat or otherwise go out of their way to acquire minions/allies in other systems. Their answer was "no", and this was despite just how much help an extra set of helping hands can be, something that I proved time and again in the current campaign (do not underestimate the power of a coordinated attack, even when the character partnered with you isn't as high level as you). Heck, even a good contact can be a MASSIVE help, something that I demonstrated in my second Dark Heresy campaign where I spent 190 XP to acquire a reliable armorsmith contact (and let me tell you that that was a major sacrifice on my part as the GM only awarded on average maybe 50 XP per session). Not only was everybody able to get better armor and enjoy increased survivability in the trials that came later, our Inquisitor (yes, our boss) went and got some better armor made for himself, too, especially after suffering some debilitating injuries going toe-to-toe with a greater Slaaneshi daemon.

 

So what's the deal? Why do so many players seem to ignore this option even though it can make the entire group's life so much easier? Well, I think my GM's answer perhaps explains all: players (a large number of them, anyway) are only interested in personal, individual power. That is, they're only interested in abilities that will personally allow them to turn their next opponent into red paste that much more quickly. Anything else is pretty much ignored.

 

As for how to change that behavior? Well, one thing that I can say is that a given player group will tend to equip themselves according to the threats they keep facing. For example, in my first Dark Heresy campaign, we never bothered with trying to get meltas, bolters, or heck, even large amounts of specialist stubber ammo, and all because of the very large groups (20-50 individuals, typically) of virtually unarmored cultists we kept having to fight. Not only would the expensive ammo not have been worth it for such peons, but the small magazine capacities of the bolters and meltas (and to a lesser extent, slug-throwing guns) would have made reloading frequently a dicey proposition at best. In a Rogue Trader campaign, then, try throwing a boarding action or two or otherwise create a situation where having lots of extra friends around is more beneficial than being able to splatter a single opponent in one turn rather than two. Hopefully, when the self-aggrandising character ends up burning fate point because it was going to take 50 turns to kill that entire group of Orks all the while said Orks were shooting at him, he'll get a clue.

 

-Kirov, who plans on asking for counter-espionage agents-turned-wait staff the next time he gets a chance to play Rogue Trader

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For the OP, it seems you got stuck with the fighter syndrome in your party, as some are quite content just to kill things,use fancy weapons and possibly intimidate (their only social skill perhaps?) their way in/out of any and all situations.

 

RT got leadership and the ship

Senechal got smarts

Void-Master got the ship operationg

Hey someone needs to be top killy guy!

 

the Arch Militant really requires a greater level of pathos in order to work as a member of the party beyond "blaaarg I kill". I guess you can't really stop the guy but I think a really quick way to tell whether an AM player is going to be a total **** from the begiining is to ask "what are your character's hopes and dreams, at this moment what does he hope to achive most with his life?"

 

If the anwser is some sort of vague crap about getting rich, gathering a super killy set of gear or getting street cred etc then you know right then he's on the wrong path. The other classes all kind of have skills that will ultimately force some sort of non-violent interactions but if the AM character has no objectives beyond "be killy" he may very well rot in that ghetto.

 

 

Pretty judgmental about a person wanting to play a particular kind of character. Not every character needs huge hopes and dreams beyond keeping the ship over their head from burning down and the guy who pays their paycheck alive.

 

Of course this is different than having a psycho murderhobo in the party, in which case you may as well play DW where that is all the characters.

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The problem is that it's ridiculous and physically impossible. :)

 

And you can't drop infinite lasguns because you can't carry more than one normally.

How so? I don't recall there being any rule regarding the number of weapons you can carry apart from weight, and Lasguns are light enough for a strong dude to carry around quite a few.

 

 

There aren't any in RT, but I go with the DW, OW, and BC guidelines that it's 1 heavy or basic weapon (two-handed) + 2 one-handed weapons + maybe a backup knife.

 

 

Biggest problem with this in DW is you can quickly run out of stuff you actually want to requisition if you're so limited. AFAIK this is just a prevalent house rule, and I'm glad for that.

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Speakng about the pistol n sword combo, in OW there is a tier 3 talent called "sidearm" which is basically pistol + sword + ambi + TWW melee + TWW ranged + Sidearm = +0 to all the attacks, can use both hands.

 

And as for the style itself? It is cool, it is flexible, it does well in melee AND ranged, even with just ambi (pistol out of melee, sword while in melee)

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