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Shakespearian_Soldier

The Inclusion of the Lightsaber

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As for lightsabers themselves, I've already decided they can't be used by non-Force-users. No on/off switches, just a mental command to the crystal. In fact, probably a big penalty if you haven't attuned it previously. So sorry, any smugglers wanting to cut open a giant space kangaroo are gonna have to use a knife :)

 

I see your argument, and raise you one instance of Han using Luke's lightsaber on Hoth. But you could always attribute that to latent Force sensitivity in Han, or else Luke subconsciously allowing it to be activated. Either works.

 

And General Grevious would be another exception?

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And General Grevious would be another exception?

 

 

 

 

He'd have to be, but I got the sense that Maelora was mostly relying on the original trilogy as opposed to the prequels.

 

If my players got their hands on a lightsaber, I'd let them activate it and swing it around for mundane purposes, but anything more complicated than "slicing bread and toasting it at the same time" would require very difficult rolls. To wit: any use of the lightsaber by an unskilled individual would require at least one setback die, and using it in combat would automatically double the challenge rating.

 

Or something. I haven't thought it all the way through yet.

Edited by CaptainRaspberry

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One of my players has a lightsaber. She didn't start the game with it, and really only got to use it for the first time yesterday. Also, it wasn't just given to her, it took a while for her to get one and be able to use it. Other than that I've had a saber show up one with time with a Forsaken Jedi. Coming up in the next game there is going to be an inquisitor, who will most likely have one as well. So, since release, I've had it show up three times. 

In the above instance, I assume you're using the Lightsaber custom skill?

Yes, we use the skill connected with agility. I gave her the option of Agility or Brawn depending on what type of style of fighting she wanted to use. Basically, I went with what made the most sense for me and ran with it.
I did the same. Just recently did they get a lightsaber working and allowed the basic skill.

We have been playing for 2 years (beta for eote). I figure it's Star Wars. At this point no lightsabers is like D&D with no dragons.

Edited by Daegren

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I probably wouldn't use Grevious, HD.  I strongly dislike the prequels.  If I used him or someone like him, they'd be 'fake' lightsabers, something like a vibrosword with flashy lighting effects. The guy on the street wouldn't know a lightsaber from a light switch, so it could still be pretty intimidating.

Edited by Maelora

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If I went the route of "In this copy of the Star Wars galaxy, only force users can turn on a lightsaber", I would definitely tell my players upfront before game 1. Because inevitably the Han and Grievous argument would come up.

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On the other hand, they're horribly overpowered, and the thought of a whole bunch of players having them is a tad scary.

Ehhh, it's one of those things where as others have pointed out there's a built-in "supposed to be balancing" factor in the setting... they would be "horribly overpowered" as melee weapons if wielded openly -- or with any survivors to tell the tale thereof -- but they're more likely to bring "the big guns" on one's head in a way that a 'mere' vibroaxe wouldn't, quite possibly (probably?) in the form of someone else who's even better at it than the corresponding party member...  ;)

 

Also, the lack of hard points means that there's no mechanically-reflected customizing of a lightsaber unlike what vibroweapons can and do have.

Mindja, there's far crazier ideas for lightsaber activation... like "must speak to it in a born-in-Swansea-then-moved-to-Bristol accent".

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I've only allowed, and only WILL allow, a single Force user in my game; and that Force using PC is a trusted player who is well known for his preference for RP over mega-smashing rules. His character is a doctor, who has no interest in violence or doing anything other than helping those in need and healing the sick. So far, he's only got the Sense Basic power, and is unlikely to branch into Emergent any time soon (his own words).

 

In my game, I'm doing with prequel-Jedi what I'd have done with TFU: have the gist happen, but dial down the power-levels - Jedi are powerful, but they can be downed with a stray blaster shot; they can affect weak minds, but not brain-hump a whole group of soldiers. Anakin and Obi-Wan DID rescue the Chancellor, but they did so by evading capture, both attacking a single, isolated group of foes rather than a whole battalion, etc.

 

Characters in my games get more or less the same amount of XP per session, with the exception of the occasional 5 XP for exceptional RP (and I won't give any single roleplayer this award more than once until every player in the group has received +5 XP for something, whether this is good RP or achieving some IC goal - this means that everyone has the same XP total throughout the game, but some gain early access to 5 points here and there because of how they do what they do). So even if you get a Jedi beginning to emerge, he'll be doing so among a group of heroes who are awesome at what they do.

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Remember that a light saber probably balances like a flashlight. Take a narrow beam flashlight and start waving it around doing fancy sword tricks with it. Every time the flashlight beam touches you, you got cut by the saber. Seeing how easy it is for a beginning sword fighter to make physical contact with their own blade, I think it would be pretty easy with a light saber too, and that thing is all edge.

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Remember that a light saber probably balances like a flashlight. Take a narrow beam flashlight and start waving it around doing fancy sword tricks with it. Every time the flashlight beam touches you, you got cut by the saber. Seeing how easy it is for a beginning sword fighter to make physical contact with their own blade, I think it would be pretty easy with a light saber too, and that thing is all edge.

 

As a fencer and saberist (properly sabreur, but who cares) I can tell you this is absolutely true. We weren't allowed to touch a weapon for six months until we'd been conditioned and trained in the proper ways to hold them... by holding nothing, or holding bladeless hilts. And consider the fact that the weapons we use don't have an edge anywhere on them.

 

I've only allowed, and only WILL allow, a single Force user in my game; and that Force using PC is a trusted player who is well known for his preference for RP over mega-smashing rules. His character is a doctor, who has no interest in violence or doing anything other than helping those in need and healing the sick. So far, he's only got the Sense Basic power, and is unlikely to branch into Emergent any time soon (his own words).

 

In my game, I'm doing with prequel-Jedi what I'd have done with TFU: have the gist happen, but dial down the power-levels - Jedi are powerful, but they can be downed with a stray blaster shot; they can affect weak minds, but not brain-hump a whole group of soldiers. Anakin and Obi-Wan DID rescue the Chancellor, but they did so by evading capture, both attacking a single, isolated group of foes rather than a whole battalion, etc.

 

Pretty much my exact policy, though if more than one of my players can prove themselves worthy I'll grant them the ability to buy Force-sensitivity. Depending on the size of the party, though, I'll probably limit it to two or three max at once. Another possibility: you can't play two Force-sensitive characters in a row? That way others get a shot at earning their Jedi stripes.

 

For some reason I watched Attack of the Clones again last night, and I noticed that in the Geonosis arena, most Jedi were getting cut down by blaster shots that I thought they would block. Thinking back, most Jedi who have abnormal blocking powers were seen in the various Clone Wars media, so you could argue that only those who had or learned that level of blocking survived for very long during the war. Everyone else either avoided gunfire in general or... well, didn't.

 

It's a weak defense, but it may be that Anakin and Obi-Wan -- and others like them, I suppose -- learned how to be superior soldiers. Incidentally, it's not likely that Force-sensitives stumbling around during the Empire's reign would be able to learn that on their own.

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For some reason I watched Attack of the Clones again last night, and I noticed that in the Geonosis arena, most Jedi were getting cut down by blaster shots that I thought they would block. Thinking back, most Jedi who have abnormal blocking powers were seen in the various Clone Wars media, so you could argue that only those who had or learned that level of blocking survived for very long during the war. Everyone else either avoided gunfire in general or... well, didn't.

 

It's a weak defense, but it may be that Anakin and Obi-Wan -- and others like them, I suppose -- learned how to be superior soldiers. Incidentally, it's not likely that Force-sensitives stumbling around during the Empire's reign would be able to learn that on their own.

 

 

This is pretty much dead-on.  The Jedi that went to Geonosis weren't necessary the best warriors, they were just whatever was on hand at the time (think librarians like Jocasta Nu, diplomats, etc.), and the Order hadn't been involved en masse in an actual shooting war for centuries.  Training duels and the occasional shoot-out with slavers doesn't prepare you to face battle droids in battalion strength with armor support.

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Regarding the Jedi that died in the Geonosis arena, they were all noted as being Form VI/Niman practitioners.  In other words, the combat style they used was akin to "combat basics 101" and was even dubbed "the diplomat's Form" because of the less stringent requirements to learn and master the style in comparison to even the elementary requirements of Form I/Shii-Cho.  It highlighted the fact that the Jedi Order was not ready for a large-scale conflict, and were essentially "keepers of the peace" in the wake of the Ruusan Reformations.  As Joker Two noted, there is a huge difference between the occasional scuffle with some lawbreakers and facing down a coordinated barrage of enemy fire.  The Jedi that did survive were either quite capable (such as being Jedi Masters) or had learned/mastered a more combat-orientated Form.

 

Of course, this was probably exactly what Sidious was counting on.  After all, the entire was the perfect Jedi trap.  I'm sure he'd have preferred that a couple of very high-ranking Jedi Masters such as Yoda and Obi-Wan were amongst the "confirmed dead" list, but in terms of the G-level canon, the gambit worked like a charm, turning a revered symbol of the Republic into mostly-forgotten cult.

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I don't see the issue with having a lightsaber in the groups possession. The system and it's lack of LS skill makes vibroswords far more accurate. One of the force sensitive exiles in my group got a hold of a LS and to our suprise he could use it! (4 brawn + two proficiency dice from sense) but the player didn't use it because he had a much better roll with melee weapons.

Yes it's a dangerous weapon even rolling unskilled but it's no ultimate weapon. Heavy blaster fire and a clear field of fire and such a coveted weapon becomes nothing more than extra weight. My suggestion is if you have a character who is not force sensitive and insists on using a LS let them. They will find out that the failings of such a weapon in the first major firefight.

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I've had two lightsabers show up in one of the two games I'm running.

 

The first was wielded by an Inquisitor who happened upon a secret Jedi archives chamber the same time the PCs did... and took from them the only bit of information / evidence they had picked up.  The second was a non-functional weapon over five hundred years old, passed on by the rulers of an anachronistic society as a symbol of power.

 

The players have the second one now, but like I said... non-functional.  So far.

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Need to chat with my GM about it, but my Jedi Initiate PC may be looking to build his own lightsaber in the not too distant future.  Right now I'm focused on getting his Force Rating up to 2 and might look into dipping into the Enhance power for those skill check boosts before I go that route.

 

He didn't seem to have too much problem with another PC (Chiss Hired Gun/Merc Soldier) picking up a disruptor rifle, and was even cool with the plan to have our Wookiee Outlaw Tech to use the casing from her heavy blaster rifle to conceal the fact she's now packing a disruptor rifle.  Sadly, that player had to bow out due to pressures of school, but given how nasty a disruptor rifle can be in the hands of an accomplished marksperson (which the Chiss was), I can't imagine he'd be too upset by the notion.

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I wonder if Auto-fire is easy to block.

All depends on how FFG decides to implement a blaster deflection mechanic.  Saga Edition had it so that a Jedi could deflect an autofire attack, but they still took partial damage if the attack would have otherwise hit (with main perks of autofire in Saga Edition being that it was an area attack and the ability to deal partial damage even on a miss).

 

My take has the Jedi and the shooter making a contested roll; if the roll is a tie or the Jedi wins, then Auto-fire is neutralized since the shooter failed to land a hit.  In the case of the Jedi winning, Auto-fire's not intended to be an option since my talent is just (as intended) just deals damage based on the weapon*.  There's no written provision for activating various qualities (or even a critical injury) on the Jedi's part if they win the contested roll, though the intent was "shot is deflected and the shooter eats their own blaster bolt."  As it stands, any GM's using said homebrew talent would have to decide if allowing the Jedi to activate things like Auto-fire or other activated qualities (such as Knockdown) is kosher for their table.  Seeing as how the talent only exists in one specialization (one that I noted should only be allowed with GM's express permission) and is a 4th Row talent, I don't see it as too horribly overpowering to allow the activated qualities from a shooter's weapon to be triggered if the Jedi had enough Advantage from the contested check to allow it, but I'd draw the line at being able to trigger a critical injury.

 

I am revisiting this, based on some feedback I got from one GM about how an NPC of his used this talent to lay waste to the party after the Bounty Hunter of the group opened fire with a heavy blaster rifle and having plenty of Advantage with which to trigger the Auto-fire quality.  I might outright disallow the Jedi being able to trigger activated qualities on the shooter's weapon, or increase the difficulty for the Jedi by one if the attacker is using Auto-fire.  The change is easy enough to conceptualize in my head, but the trick would be getting it through on paper.

 

*plus each success that the Jedi had over what the shooter got; so if the shooter used a heavy blaster rifle and rolled 3 successes while the Jedi rolled 4 successes on the contested roll, then it'd be the heavy blaster rifle's base damage +1.

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Just to be sure if I'm reading this correctly, is the idea being to increase the difficulty of deflecting auto-fire and/or to 'mitigate' the Jedi's damage potential from redirecting fire?

Yep.

 

Bad Dude with BFG uses Auto-Fire while at Medium Range, Jedi opting to save their bacon via Deflect Blasters would have a base difficulty of 3 Purple (2 for being Medium Range, +1 for Auto-fire) plus any defensive traits that Bad Dude might have (such as a defense rating or ranks in Adversary).  So in effect, the penalty for using Auto-fire gets applied to both the attacker and the Jedi.

 

Alternatively, I'm thinking of just saying "sorry, but the Jedi can't trigger any Activated qualities the attacker's weapon has" to keep things on the simple side and avert concerns of "Jedi = overpowered" by way of said Jedi making use of an Auto-fire weapon to decimate a bunch of non-minion targets in one go.

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Personally lightsabers haven't shown up in any campiagn I have played in yet. Though the attention gained by weilding such weapons would draw such a incredable amount of attention that they likely wouldn't be worth it. While on one hand they are easily the best weapons, using them in a campiagn with my DM's would likely result in a huge amount of attention by the entire galaxy.

 

Needless to say, we would be swarmed by all kinds of imperials before the end of the session or in the immediate future. So I can't see a situation where we would wield a lightsaber, except if we were going to go full hog rebel or betray the silly sod and hand him into imperial customs to get the heat away from us (Because we are from the group mentality that  every action carries a consquence, rather then an oppertunity. It's just dependant on how we carry ourselves.)

Of course, it's subject to campiagn feel but I would actually consider carrying one a disadvantage.

 

From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

 

 

In short, not seen them and I hope not to. Lightsabers in party tends to lead to three things, trouble, overwheming (in both party and rp balience) and typically narrows campiagn path (due to imperial attention being relentless). Though thats just my largely poor experences with them in the past and not due to any experience I've had of them in this system.

Edited by LordBritish

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From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

the non-jedi in EotE and AoR are nifty, not over-powered, And seem only a hair more powerful than non Force Users.

Yoda: Unlearn your d20 fears, serve you here they will not.

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From a combat perspective? Yeah it's the best weapon in the game and Jedi have a tendency to be incredable pressences that change the nature of the party. I have too many nightmares of force users in the D20 system to allow any force user in a campiagn willingly, though that may be more to do with terrible roleplaying I've experienced in any force senstive campiagn and the overpowered nature of Jedi in that system in.

the non-jedi in EotE and AoR are nifty, not over-powered, And seem only a hair more powerful than non Force Users.

Yoda: Unlearn your d20 fears, serve you here they will not.

 

Let go.... of my hate? I CAN'T, THE DARK SIDE IS TOO STRONG! XD

 

In all seriousness, you are right. I don't think we will see any force senstives for a while though, thus far it's a general concensis that we are not making any force senstive characters until after a period of time.

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I've thrown lightsabers into my games with zero troubles. They are a very powerful melee weapon, sure, but as far as abject lethality goes they're on par with some of the easier to get deadly weapons, disrupters for example.

FFG Star Wars combat very strongly favors the attacker, typically, and so a character brandishing a saber is just as vulnerable to attack as anyone else. Also, since the lightsaber generally does not get used trained, important NPCs with some decent deflecting armor and a couple ranks in Adversary slant the lightsaber into a clumsy and unreliable means of attacking, especially compared to the incredible accuracy of a character with a few ranks in the combat skill they are using.

Lightsabers are also so iconic in a Star. Wars for me. The campaign never really felt like it was truly Star Wars until enemies (and eventually player characters) starting brandishing them.

In short, I personally feel that you should all learn to stop worrying and love the lightsaber.

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For a bit of fun I put twelve light sabers in front of my players on an Alliance mission for Age of Rebellion. This was something of a side-quest, since their abduction target would be going there maybe and they had to kidnap him. The Musueum was having a display on the "Terror of the Jedi" for the benefit of Imperial officers. One managed to sneak in, find the lightsabers (there were Holocrons, but they were ignored), stole all of them and duck-taped them together to hold them. The Imperial guards fired on him, he got caught up in the sheet in front of the exhibit door, and ran out of the museum looking like a fireball clutching these Lightsabers.

 

Nine of them turned out to be fakes. Two of them were damaged, and one of them was working. Because I think he rolled a triumph I said this was the light saber that allegedly belonged to Count Dooku before his fall to the Sith. His character is a chaotic good Trandoshan programmer, and this is going to be interesting. He's unlocked force powers to try more chaotic mayhem (and on the dark side), but if he's not careful I might take it away from him. :P

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One of my PCs has a lightsaber, grandfathered in when I had them convert from Saga Edition to this one.  Fortunately, she rarely uses it because she's more of a healer and less a fighter (though she has used it to great effect on a couple occasions).

 

My campaign takes place in the Old Republic era though (about 300 years after SWTOR), so lightsabers aren't uber rare.  Cortosis also isn't quite as rare either (though only one of my players has some so far, and it was only gained after defeating the villain below).

 

The only other time a lightsaber has appeared so far in my campaign is when it was wielded by the spirit of Marka Ragnos, who possessed a stone statue of himself and wielded his personal blade from his sarcophagus.   Though the players wisely left the lightsaber in the tomb after they passed his trial.

 

Otherwise I have kept lightsabers rare in light of the fact that they aren't really rare by keeping the party on the fringes of space or, as they say, the edge of the empire.  On top of that, the Empire itself has been thought gone and long dead until very recently.

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No lightsabers in my game as of yet, but contact with them is not out of the question as one of the players has a patron in the empire.  As for untrained use, my idea was to throw in at lease one challenge die, if they roll a despair then it an auto self crit, I may let them know in advanve or I may let them chop of their own foot/hand

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