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Donovan Morningfire

The Unofficial Species Menagerie... The Final Revision (the true "Official" USM Thread)

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True, but that actually seems to be a choice the player has to be aware of when acting: you can do more damage, but are you willing to risk your own wellbeing? It's easy to pick a species that gets a boost without there being a downside, but having one where the player has to think things through before acting seems a lot more interesting to me. :)

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alright it seems very out of place for togruta since they tend to be the weakest of damage takers to be in Engaged band at any point well we will have to see how that plays out.

Well, again I refer to the Sage Edition stats, which appear to have been the basis that the original author used.  And not every species is going to have a special quality that's always going to be used or useful.  As Veruca noted, there's an element of risk involved, so you're going to have to decide if the risk is worth it or not.

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As unprofessional as the work with these guys began, as unprofessional it ended. You can all read in the original thread how I handled the topic. I put the original one offline, I was always friendly and tried to be polite and have a good working relationship. Donovan in his place made a lot of demands what and how the things have to look, where they have to be and that he wants to host it (I guess which was already a preparation for taking it offline soon after that) which I all agreed upon.

I had only one wish: I wanted to be the one who announces the new version on the board.

Even that one wish he couldn't fulfill due to not being able to communicate with his partners.

 

And what did I got out of all of that? My work is put offline, I am discredited in all of his posts/blogs and, which is the most ironical of all of that, the new layouter took all my photoshopped and edited pictures out of my pdf, copied the way I arranged the stuff and they did not credit me.

The one point they all went crazy ape **** about in the beginning, are they doing now on their own. They did also not inform me in any way before they put it online.

 

I see all the points Donovan was so pissed about when I posted it. But he did not seem to be interested in doing it better when it's his turn.

 

For all the effort I put in, and the result and disrespect I get now, this is just disappointing and unprofessional. And I lost my hesistance to join the flame war I had in the original thread because I won't let myself being discredited in that way.

Edited by thedearth2
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Well, thedearth2, to be completely honest, the version you released did alter more than just the art from the original. Many species from the previous versions were suddenly missing from your version (I assume this may have had something to do with not finding quality art to represent them?).

 

I understand where they are coming from. They put a lot of effort and time in something that you picked up and changed in ways they didn't want. I'm not trying to defend either side, I'm just trying to say that I can understand both parties here. I also thought the first version could use a visual update, but I understood that copyright would be an obstacle.

 

I can't speak on how it ended, but I think it's unfair to blame them for being unprofessional when this all started with you kinda going behind their back, even though you were fair enough to take it down and try to work it out with them.

 

I think this is the problem with most user-made content. Everyone has their own idea on how it should be made. I think you would have been better off if you had just made your own version, instead of trying to alter theirs. Just my 2 cents here. :)

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Veruca, on 08 Dec 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Well, thedearth2, to be completely honest, the version you released did alter more than just the art from the original. Many species from the previous versions were suddenly missing from your version (I assume this may have had something to do with not finding quality art to represent them?).

This was one of the demands from Donovan. My original version had all of them included.

Quote

I understand where they are coming from. They put a lot of effort and time in something that you picked up and changed in ways they didn't want. I'm not trying to defend either side, I'm just trying to say that I can understand both parties here. I also thought the first version could use a visual update, but I understood that copyright would be an obstacle.

We had this discussion in the original thread, only that I did not involve myself into it, but the answer remains the same: They put it under a CC-License. If you do that, you have to expect that things are going to be altered - that is the reason behind these licenses.

Quote

I think this is the problem with most user-made content. Everyone has their own idea on how it should be made. I think you would have been better off if you had just made your own version, instead of trying to alter theirs. Just my 2 cents here. :)

Again: If you do not want to have it altered, don't put it under a CC-License. It's as easy as that.

Yes, I could have informed them. I saw that point and did my best by taking it all offline and stuff. What I got with that behaviour, we can see now... And by the way they handled their re-release now, you can see how important this point was really to them...

Edited by thedearth2
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Sorry "thedearth," but you're not quite as innocent as you paint yourself as being in this whole affair.  I'm not going to derail this thread with pointless bickering.  Suffice to say you made your true nature very clear, and we've got nothing more to say to one another on the matter.

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If you feel the need to discredit me in every of your blog posts, then have the balls to explain and prove it. Your posts was as vague as all of your accusations.

Please, go ahead. You can even post all the PMs in here, I have nothing to hide, but feel the need to defend my name against accusations which are not true.

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When was Bea Arthur in Star Wars?

Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

And oddly enough, it's one of the very few images to showcase a wide variety of Star Wars species in one shot.  Thus why the GSA used it for the prior articles and why it was used here as well.

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Please, go ahead. You can even post all the PMs in here, I have nothing to hide, but feel the need to defend my name against accusations which are not true.

Why bother?  So you can just whitewash what you said, or try and deny the fact that for you this was never "providing a resource to the fans" but rather a means for you to draw attention to yourself.  Or that when I provided a rough timeline, and tried to give the artists and authors a chance to respond, you kept pushing "when are you going to get this done?"  Or the fact that asking permission, either of the original authors or the artists whose work you appropriated without permission or proper attribution, had never crossed your mind until I mentioned it.  When I told you that Cyril might need some more time, particularly due to issues involving his wife, your response was "tough s###, I don't care, I want this thing done now."  That alone spoke volumes that your only care in this project was self-promotion.

 

As for those PMs themselves, you'd probably just accuse me of changing what they said, or that you never said what you actually said, particularly the accusation that I was deliberately trying to cut you out of the loop.  If I'd meant to do that, it would have been from Day One and I never would have tried to work with you on this.  In fact, I'm still thinking I would have been better off to just tell you to put that old outdated version up and stuck with my initial game plan for getting an updated PDF compiled.

 

And thank you for proving what little class you actually have with that recent thread of yours, or the fact that the only talent you have is in stealing other people's work under the excuse of "it's creative commons and they don't have a proper license to it, I can do whatever I want!"  You weren't even able to come up with an original design, instead ripping off FFG's product design and trying to make it look like an FFG product clone instead of something original.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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When was Bea Arthur in Star Wars?

Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

And oddly enough, it's one of the very few images to showcase a wide variety of Star Wars species in one shot.  Thus why the GSA used it for the prior articles and why it was used here as well.

 

Interesting. Last time I saw that was when it aired in the 70s. Have to check it out again some time.

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When was Bea Arthur in Star Wars?

Star Wars Holiday Special.

 

And oddly enough, it's one of the very few images to showcase a wide variety of Star Wars species in one shot.  Thus why the GSA used it for the prior articles and why it was used here as well.

 

Interesting. Last time I saw that was when it aired in the 70s. Have to check it out again some time.

 

I wouldn't recommend it.  The nostalgia factor only goes so far, and you know it can't be good when even George Lucas is ashamed to admit it exists (though most of that is due to Executive Meddling trying to make it a variety show once he'd stepped away to focus on Empire Strikes Back).

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I have a great tolorance to that kind of stuff. I grew up watching a great many variety shows. Carol Burnett, Donny & Marie, Sonny & Cher, Globetrotters, Sha-Na-Na. They were all cheezy but I love cheese. It would probably do no more than bring a chuckle to me.

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Tassedar,

To call back to your question on the Togruta, as it turns out I had some notes that didn't get passed along to JegerGryte regarding their Pack Hunter (along with a couple other very minor things).

 

As an alternative, if the current version of Pack Hunter doesn't work for you or your GM, there's this option:

 

Pack Hunter: Togrutas may add 1 Advantage to the result of any assisted combat skill checks they either make or contribute to.

 

This way, you're not limited to Engaged range, and you might still get some benefit even if the attack roll fails.  Consider it an author-approved house rule.

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I have a great tolorance to that kind of stuff. I grew up watching a great many variety shows. Carol Burnett, Donny & Marie, Sonny & Cher, Globetrotters, Sha-Na-Na. They were all cheezy but I love cheese. It would probably do no more than bring a chuckle to me.

I guess so.  In that case, enjoy.  There should be enough cheese in that thing to smother an entire 24-cut pizza.

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Just to let folks know, JegerGryte had reached out to me about doing a slightly updated version to improve the quality of the PDFs, and I had considered using that as an opportunity to include a few minor tweaks that I'd not passed along to him in time, as well as adding a few more species to the roster.  After all, if he's doing an update, why not sneak in some new material, or maybe even revisit some of the species that had been removed due to their appearance in Age of Rebellion and tweak them a bit?

 

But as "thedearth" has proven that he has no scruples about just swiping someone else's work and doing what he wants with it (such as making a version that has even more screw-ups this time around), I really don't see the point in bothering anymore.  What started as a labor of love has now turned into a massive headache, nearly to the point that I'm almost sorry this whole thing even came into existence.

Edited by Donovan Morningfire

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Since I have both a Nautolan and a Togruta in my playergroup, I was taking a closer look at their skills: Pheromonal Senses and Spatial Awareness.

 

Can someone explain why it removes a setback instead of adding a boost? I'd like to understand the reasoning behind it.

 

The main reason I ask this, is because I would like to know what happens when there is no setback die to remove. If I read this correctly, Togrutas have a form of echo location that they can use to sense someone close by. What if this person is hiding behind a corner? That doesn't seem like it would add a setback, mainly because then the players would know that something's up. Same for Nautolans and them maybe sensing stress from a hidden character. Wouldn't it make more sense to let them add a boost die to represent their edge? Let's say thick mist adds a setback (or 2), even with their extra senses, that mist is still as thick to them.

 

The setback removal does work with the low-light vision from Nautolans, as it helps them pierce through the setback that low light would give.

 

Just a thought.

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From what I understand, these are permanent senses. So let's say a person was standing behind a Togruta, the Togruta would know that person was standing there, no matter the weather conditions, whether it is light or dark, whether or not there is a loud disruptive sound drowing out any sound that person would make... that sort of thing.

Now I'm not sure about Nautolans. Can they actually sense everyone's emotion in a room, or do they have to focus on one particular person (because if they don't know if someone's there, how can they focus on them, right?).

 

Taken from Wookieepedia:

 

Togruta were also distinguished by montrals, large hollow horn-like projections from the top of their heads, that gave the species a form of passive echolocation.

 

Nautolans possessed exceptional olfactory and pheromone-sensing skills, enhanced by head-tresses. These tendrils were used to detect the emotional state of another being, but were most effective underwater. Within Nautolan culture, the ability to sense pheromone changes was an essential part of the communication process.

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Both are just 'remove setback die.'

 

The Togruta were converted pretty much from d20 by profgoldfinch, and largely functioned there to offset a penalty.  Thus, he wrote the SWFFG version to do the same, to negate a setback die.  So it's not necessarily that they sense things any better, just that they're not as impaired by concealment as a Human would be.

 

Similar deal with Nautolans, in that their species ability negates a condition (in this case, darkness) and thus removes one setback die imposed by lighting conditions, much like the Chiss in Enter the Unknown.

 

Plus, an "all the time" boost die starts getting into the realm of "is this too good?"  This in particular as more and more species get official write-ups by FFG, and I'm seeing that in a few cases the authors (self included) may have overshot the mark and some species were in need of being toned down a touch.

 

But if you really feel strongly enough that these senses should provide full-time boost dice, it's your game.  The fact that there's a 5XP talent that's currently only found in specializations that have to be purchased that does the same exact thing (Uncanny Senses, found in Force Exile and Force Emergent) makes me hesitate to simply give them a flat boost die on Perception checks.

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Thanks a lot, Donovan. Your explanation provides the insight I was looking for regarding these special skills. You're right about making sure to keep everything balanced and not provide the players with too many bonuses from the get-go. I guess I was looking at this too much from a narrative point of view, and not so much from a gameplay one.

 

I'll stick with the setbacks and evaluate my stance on it after a few encounters. :)

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Donovan, I have a question; With enter the unknown released, and the stats for toydarians revealed with the 1/1/2/2/3/3 layout, is the there any changes you get would make to any species in this document, given this new precedent? Also with this info, will this remain the final revision?

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Donovan, I have a question; With enter the unknown released, and the stats for toydarians revealed with the 1/1/2/2/3/3 layout, is the there any changes you get would make to any species in this document, given this new precedent? Also with this info, will this remain the final revision?

Even with Toydarians going the 1/1/2/2/3/3 route, there's not any changes I'd make to the existing species in that regards.  For quite a few of them, it was tough enough figuring out which Characteristic would be the "weak" entry.  Not really keen to go through them yet again to try and figure out two "weak" Characteristics and two "strong" Characteristics.

 

That said, I did run through the species and do some minor tweaks here and there.  Whether it ever gets published, given the actions of one particularly individual... as things stand, not very likely  Particularly as I view it as being something of a feature of the Gamer Security Agency, and right now the GSA's future is up in the air.

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