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TK Ghost

Not Convinced

102 posts in this topic

After many deep and profound brain things inside my head, I've come to the conclusion that Dark Heresy 2nd Edition is just not worth investing in. For me Dark Heresy, the original, is still a good playable game which doesn't need to be brought in line with the other games.

 

Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium. It isn't perfect. But most of what needs adding to or changing can easily be house ruled.

 

What the original offers:

 

(1) Characters who are not impressive when they start

(2) Plenty of homeworld options, which supplements and other games add to.

(3) Loads of skills and talents

(4) Loads of psychic powers

(5) Acolytes need to pay their way, rather than being exempt from having to spend money to aquire weapons, armour and gear.

(6) What may be lacking from the rulebook is well covered in supplements.

(7) Anything not covered in the rulebook and supplements can easily be gleaned from other games and their supplements.

 

So it may be an old, outdated dinosaur but it will likely stand the test of time long after 2nd Edition has lost it's "new toy" appeal.

 

That's what I think anyway.

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You're not alone but I hope to be convinced this games worth getting.

Please FFG :unsure:

 

If it was an improved Dark Heresy, with a few exciting new things, then I'd bite.

Megapope likes this

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Thanks for making this new thread to tell everyone. I was really wondering what you were going to decide but I also didn't want I check the thread you'd already made about this because that would have made sense. I'm really glad you're a part of the community here.

cps and Morangias like this

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Thanks for making this new thread to tell everyone. I was really wondering what you were going to decide but I also didn't want I check the thread you'd already made about this because that would have made sense. I'm really glad you're a part of the community here.

I too am thankful the update. I was really worried you and your group would dive head-first into the titular game of these forums and not have fun. Now that I know you're not even going to try, well that's one worry off my plate.

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I was hoping we could have a thread with no profile pics but you 2 had to go and spoil it now peaple will have some idea where in the thread they are without stoping to read.

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Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.

Edited by Tom Cruise
Scyndria and player320064 like this

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Just go with it :rolleyes: I admit I like the throw a ton of nobodys at the galaxy and train any who live more than I can justify it but I can see the point of using throw away teams. :ph34r:

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To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big **** heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.

player320064 and Benj02 like this

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Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.

 

 

 

To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big **** heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.

Yes. Frankly, I find the idea inane. It's not like an experienced Arbite is somehow less disposable in the Imperium, certainly not as far as the Inquisition is concerned.

 

I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.

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I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.

 

This bit I agree with but I still don't see 30+2d10 as ok.

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Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

What.

 

To each there own, but I loathed the "keep track of every coin" and "you start as a rookie arbite/apprentice tech-priest/junior-under-secretary-adept" aspects of DH 1. I felt they neither fit with the source material (primarily the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books) nor made the slightest bit of sense; even if the Inquisitor wants disposable teams, surely there are sufficient Guardsmen, Arbites and Adepts in the galaxy that he can at least assemble a team who aren't on the first day of the job when they are seconded to the Inquisition?

 

I mean, if it's what you want, go nuts; I'm not going to tell you you're playing wrong. But the sentiment "Inquisitorial operatives should be insignificant nobodies, not big **** heroic badasses like you'd fine in the Imperial Guard!" is one I find... difficult to endorse.

Yes. Frankly, I find the idea inane. It's not like an experienced Arbite is somehow less disposable in the Imperium, certainly not as far as the Inquisition is concerned.

 

I've said that numerous times, I'll say it again - DH1 is WFRP In Spaace, a game about random murderhobos roaming the world of 40k, with the Inquisition hastily slapped on top of it as a rather thin justification. DH2 cuts off the "fat" and is a "specialist game" like all other titles in the 40k library, which is a good thing in my book.

 

What no more this

maxresdefault.jpg

 

Me and my friends upped the starting stats to 25+2d10 when we started playing DH 1st after this came too common scene in fights. Even with Aim, red dot laser sight and short range most fight rolls went in line: Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Miss, Hit \o/

Edited by Routa-maa
player320064, yggZ and TK Ghost like this

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I agree with the non-incompetent character creation. It doesn't have any sense at all for an Inquisitor, who can choose almost anyone into their cells to pick a group of guises who cannot even get information from a gossip addict old women in the market. No way xD.

 

When I started running DH 1.0 with my players I made them to start at rank three. Sure it made the creation far longer, but they agreed about the incongruity of the too low level characters.

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Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade and Only War are meant to have stronger characters and powerful adversaries. Dark Heresy is for the average Joes of the Imperium.

 

Wait, so the most elite organisation in the Imperium with access to unlimited resources is for average joes, but the Imperial Guard is for stronger characters?

 

 

 

What.

 

ilm like, wtf too >.<

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I'd personally rather roll (3k2)+20 for stats than 2d10+25.

Meaning you roll 3d10, but keep only 2 of them, of your choice (= the highest).

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I'd personally rather roll (3k2)+20 for stats than 2d10+25.Meaning you roll 3d10, but keep only 2 of them, of your choice (= the highest).

isn't it currently the following for dice roll?

plus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the lowest)

Normal stat : 25 + (2d10)

minus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the highest)

which if my sums where correct give an average result of about 36. The point buy is obviously different meaning you can i think get 37 average in most stats.

edit : sort the first avg, thanks to AtoMaki for the catch.

Edited by nultaar

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isn't it currently the following for dice roll?

plus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the lowest)

Normal stat : 25 + (2d10)

minus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the highest)

which if my sums where correct give an average result of about 32. 

 

Uhm... 25+2D10 is 35 (or 36) on average. 

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isn't it currently the following for dice roll?plus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the lowest)Normal stat : 25 + (2d10)minus stat : 25 + (3d10, discard the highest)which if my sums where correct give an average result of about 32.

 Uhm... 25+2D10 is 35 (or 36) on average.

Bit of a brain fail on my part, thanks for the catch.

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Dark Heresy, a game in which characters start weak and puny.

 

Dark Heresy Ascension, a supplement which allows you to have Inquisitors, Interrogators, Storm Troopers, Vindicare Assassins, Sages, Crusaders and more. Like I said, Dark Heresy has supplements to cover much of what is missing from the rulebook.

 

I like Only War for the rock hard Guardsmen armed to the teeth. I've said plenty of times that any and all Guardsmen who are part of my Inquisitor force will be from....wait for it.....Only War. Regiment creation is my favourite chapter, next to all those tanks. I've also stated that the Guardsmen are present in my bankground. Sadly it is in a different topic so I'll just have to repeat myself:

 

Dark Heresy is all about investigating, spying, subtlety and generally sneaking about. When the going gets tough, the acolytes send out the bat-signal and the Inquisitor sends a team of rough and tough Guardsmen to kick down the door and send the foes of the Imperium back to the hell from whence they came. All the puny acolytes will report back to the ASCENDED character of their specific field, while an ASCENDED storm trooper would command the ONLY WAR Guardsmen.

 

In other words: Inquisitor be lord and master of all his retinue. Each member of the retinue commands a cell of acolytes. Each acolyte is someone who is unimpressive and won't get a second glance.

 

So while your super awesome butt kicking rock hard fully armed, armoured, locked and loaded acolytes draw the attention of every alien and chaos worshipper within a star system; my acolytes will sneak, spy and investigate until they find the Magneto, Palpatine, Megatron or whoever is behind all the dark goings-on and call in the cavalry. Who the cavalry are, and what game system they're from, will be determined by the Inquisitor. Should the situation call for it, the Inquisitor will command his retinue into battle alongside HORDES of Guardsmen to battle HORDES of enemies and the leaders of their BLACK CRUSADE.

 

I hope this clears up why I like "Average Joes" and why I think an smart Inquisitor would employ them.

 

P.S. This may be 40K but the character of the Inquisitor is the character of the Games Master.....NO LIFE IS EXPENDABLE.....ignore that at your peril.

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So while your super awesome butt kicking rock hard fully armed, armoured, locked and loaded acolytes draw the attention of every alien and chaos worshipper within a star system; my acolytes will sneak, spy and investigate until they find the Magneto, Palpatine, Megatron or whoever is behind all the dark goings-on and call in the cavalry. 

 

The problem is that realistically, big bads are not passive either. So what happens with your Acolytes when the Bad Cavalry crashes down their door with guns blazing? Or better yet, their next clue is wrapped into a renegade, though-as-nails warrior and his private band of heretic brutes? 

 

Not to mention that in the 40k universe, you can't shoot up the signal and wait for the reinforcements. It could take days if not weeks, months or even years for a something to arrive if it arrives at all. 

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I hope this clears up why I like "Average Joes" and why I think an smart Inquisitor would employ them.

 

 

It still doesn't make any sense to pick the "average joe" for the spying, infiltrating and investigating part. If you want to start a new cell and you need a "hacker" type, you are not going to pick a boy who just went out of the Informatics School and doesn't know a **** about real life and the real hacker things. 

 

The same if you need somebody to infiltrate in the worst part of the hive and hunt some gangers down. You're not going to pick the first recruit you can get your hand upon, who have only shot targets in the trainings. You pick somebody who knows who the f*** is he doing. 

 

I think you're mistaking "I don't believe an Inquisitor/Interrogator would pick an incompetent and naive unbearded boy for a subtle investigation" with "I want my character to be Stallone in steroids"

GauntZero and player320064 like this

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Not to mention that in the 40k universe, you can't shoot up the signal and wait for the reinforcements. It could take days if not weeks, months or even years for a something to arrive if it arrives at all. 

 

 

Who said the reinforcements were not close. They don't nickname me "ghost" fo no reason. That's in real life, so imagine what I can accomplish in a ficitonal universe.

 

Wait until I create a blog and start posting. You'll not guess who the Inquisitor is until.....no that'll really spoil it.

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