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pod1136

which star wars ship should NEVER be made into a mini?

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There is a big reason why any topic involving the TIE Defender and especially its stats gets heated. You have one party that sees the ship as you describe it in the TIE Fighter video game and want it to have insane stats but usually failing to recognize what those stats should cost. Then you have the group that would base stats off of later versions of the Defender which still have it being "the best overall fighter" available but don't exceed that standard maximums we now have.

As for the Defender's appearance I believe RM echoes my opinion on that. Three sets of panels adds redundancy and also helps with exposure area (as if they will really do much good) and looking out on the "thin" edge of a panel would certainly aid visibility.

In my defense, when I argue for an uber Defender I'm pretty explicit that it should also cost a very large amount. I wasn't fond of many Defender models because it's frequently just an Interceptor with a third wing, which is just lame. No room for all the extra gear. But I like Fractal's version.

The Uglies just plain need to go. They make no sense. They're not even scavenging the right parts to make stuff fit.

The Suncrusher is the worst bit of ****-fest I've ever read and I quit reading SW for several years because the writing was so bad. Almost as bad as Black Fleet Crisis. But the ship design... Oy vey. An ice cream cone? Really? There's only one Ice Cream Cone of Doom in sci-fi and it belongs in Trek.

And the Z95 is crap. BrandX from the Fate of the Galaxy mood did a fantastic version of it. But the design is crap. It's an X-wing and they're not fooling anyone. Like Gosric said, it's not even close to the book.

Edited by Hawkeye88

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The Z'Ceptor make sense, Cockpit wired to Astromech to supply avionics, a TIE cockpit which is used as a bridge between parts, proper engines and some interceptor panels to power the lasers. Fairly reasonable.

 

The Tie-Wing I like, but only when done correctly, Gosric added power cabeling which I totally agree with, but I would have also added the extra box behind the cockpit the appears in some comics to hold the extra relays needed to connect the engines to the TIE controls, and to transfer power to the engines.

 


 

And then you have the X-Ceptor... with no engines... the Y-Tie.. with no engines.... The Correlian/B-Wing.... REALLY.

 

So when I do my Pirates

5 or 6 Tie-Wings, some Z'Ceptors, and then I think I will make up the rest with maybe a Gozanti Cruiser and some Hutt consortium. Though I think I'll need to learn to use Wings-3D, or get back into Blender to make these

 

M3A-Scyk

 

250px-M3AScyk-SWG.jpg

 

M12-L Kimogila heavy fighter

 

250px-Kimogila.jpg

 

M22-T Krayt Gunship

 

250px-Kraytgunship.jpg

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I would say, don't do any uglies because a lot if them just are technically (even by very tolerant sci-fi standards) impossible, like the Y-Tie. And others like that Corellian/B-Wing are just plain ridiculous... Why would you even do this when there is already a two-seater version of the B-Wing...

And superweapons would not really make sense gamewise... Plus the ice cone is just so dumb...

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I always thought uglies were made out of necessity, not because someone thought they were a better design. The Corellion B-Wing would be the product of finding a way to get that salvaged B-Wing that had its cockpit blow to smithereens back in the fight. Especially in the hands of pirates on a shoestring budget. That's also why there are so many variants of uglies. Got parts? Make something useful out of them.

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I always thought uglies were made out of necessity, not because someone thought they were a better design. The Corellion B-Wing would be the product of finding a way to get that salvaged B-Wing that had its cockpit blow to smithereens back in the fight. Especially in the hands of pirates on a shoestring budget. That's also why there are so many variants of uglies. Got parts? Make something useful out of them.

Yeah thats how I see it.  It is better to have something rather than nothing.  Not every pirate or outlaw group has the funding the Hutts, Black Sun, and Z.C have Z.C being the  most militaristic since they want to kill the Empire, Rebel Alliance, Hutts, and black Sun.

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I always thought uglies were made out of necessity, not because someone thought they were a better design. The Corellion B-Wing would be the product of finding a way to get that salvaged B-Wing that had its cockpit blow to smithereens back in the fight. Especially in the hands of pirates on a shoestring budget. That's also why there are so many variants of uglies. Got parts? Make something useful out of them.

Yeah thats how I see it.  It is better to have something rather than nothing.  Not every pirate or outlaw group has the funding the Hutts, Black Sun, and Z.C have Z.C being the  most militaristic since they want to kill the Empire, Rebel Alliance, Hutts, and black Sun.

 

 

True, and that's why I like the Z'Ceptor and the Tie-Wings design they look like they have been pieced together with extra cabeling, bracing, plating, mismatched... 

 

My issue with the Y-Tie and the X-Ceptor is they have just took parts and welded them together with no thought about how the thing would work....

 

And even though they are pieced together you can have some beauty in pieced together ships, the Correlian/B-Wing lacks any kind of balance, or aesthetic style. Even if you were a pirate piecing together things from scrap, you would want your ship to be the coolest piece of pieced together **** that you could get, almost any other piece would be better than sticking a YT-1300 cockpit onto a B-Wing, it doesn't even make sense really, it is like stappling a Elephant's foot on a ***** Cat.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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They can only use the parts they have. Think of it as a junkyard war in space.

 

Have you ever watched Junkyard Wars. One thing they do make sure is that the Car has an engine. They think it quite important. and they will look for a piece that actually works for a build rather than grabbing the first piece they have as hand... and that's with small junkyards.. Have you seen the size of some of the Junkyards in the Star Wars universe... They are MASSIVE.

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I always thought uglies were made out of necessity, not because someone thought they were a better design. The Corellion B-Wing would be the product of finding a way to get that salvaged B-Wing that had its cockpit blow to smithereens back in the fight. Especially in the hands of pirates on a shoestring budget. That's also why there are so many variants of uglies. Got parts? Make something useful out of them.

Yeah thats how I see it.  It is better to have something rather than nothing.  Not every pirate or outlaw group has the funding the Hutts, Black Sun, and Z.C have Z.C being the  most militaristic since they want to kill the Empire, Rebel Alliance, Hutts, and black Sun.

 

 

True, and that's why I like the Z'Ceptor and the Tie-Wings design they look like they have been pieced together with extra cabeling, bracing, plating, mismatched... 

 

My issue with the Y-Tie and the X-Ceptor is they have just took parts and welded them together with no thought about how the thing would work....

 

And even though they are pieced together you can have some beauty in pieced together ships, the Correlian/B-Wing lacks any kind of balance, or aesthetic style. Even if you were a pirate piecing together things from scrap, you would want your ship to be the coolest piece of pieced together **** that you could get, almost any other piece would be better than sticking a YT-1300 cockpit onto a B-Wing, it doesn't even make sense really, it is like stappling a Elephant's foot on a ***** Cat.

 

After looking at all of them agian I am pretty sure now that all of them are diffrent internally just because the parts look like it came from a Y-Wing or so on, doesnt mean it is 100% a Y-Wing part.  Aparently the Y-Tie is more dangerious than most diffrent versions of Y-Wing.  Its sounds like the reactor was replaced with a SFS reactor same for the engines which would require the solar pannels to work.  It also has four sets of some type of SFS laser cannon and a TIE Fighter targeting computer.

 

As for the Correlian B-Wing ironicly enought out of all the diffrent B-Wing versions the Correlian is the most powerful because it carries 2 Turbo lasers.  The cockpit might be the way it is because the pilots wanted to fly a ship that has similar/same flight controls they are familar with. 

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They can only use the parts they have. Think of it as a junkyard war in space.

 

Have you ever watched Junkyard Wars. One thing they do make sure is that the Car has an engine. They think it quite important. and they will look for a piece that actually works for a build rather than grabbing the first piece they have as hand... and that's with small junkyards.. Have you seen the size of some of the Junkyards in the Star Wars universe... They are MASSIVE.

I'm not defending every combination put out by anybody as a viable ugly. My point was just to present a scenario where you would end up with the Corellion / B-Wing combo. I agree, some uglies seem reasonable while others just seem like a lame attempt by someone to invent something new.

I will say this, though: if endless salvage was so readily available throughout the galaxy, we would never see uglies. Wouldn't you use the right part for a ship if you had it instead of making a Frankenstein mix that requires integration of systems not designed to go together? I'm just saying, pirates don't always have the luxury of being choosy about what they fly.

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I always thought uglies were made out of necessity, not because someone thought they were a better design. The Corellion B-Wing would be the product of finding a way to get that salvaged B-Wing that had its cockpit blow to smithereens back in the fight. Especially in the hands of pirates on a shoestring budget. That's also why there are so many variants of uglies. Got parts? Make something useful out of them.

Yeah thats how I see it.  It is better to have something rather than nothing.  Not every pirate or outlaw group has the funding the Hutts, Black Sun, and Z.C have Z.C being the  most militaristic since they want to kill the Empire, Rebel Alliance, Hutts, and black Sun.

 

 

True, and that's why I like the Z'Ceptor and the Tie-Wings design they look like they have been pieced together with extra cabeling, bracing, plating, mismatched... 

 

My issue with the Y-Tie and the X-Ceptor is they have just took parts and welded them together with no thought about how the thing would work....

 

And even though they are pieced together you can have some beauty in pieced together ships, the Correlian/B-Wing lacks any kind of balance, or aesthetic style. Even if you were a pirate piecing together things from scrap, you would want your ship to be the coolest piece of pieced together **** that you could get, almost any other piece would be better than sticking a YT-1300 cockpit onto a B-Wing, it doesn't even make sense really, it is like stappling a Elephant's foot on a ***** Cat.

 

After looking at all of them agian I am pretty sure now that all of them are diffrent internally just because the parts look like it came from a Y-Wing or so on, doesnt mean it is 100% a Y-Wing part.  Aparently the Y-Tie is more dangerious than most diffrent versions of Y-Wing.  Its sounds like the reactor was replaced with a SFS reactor same for the engines which would require the solar pannels to work.  It also has four sets of some type of SFS laser cannon and a TIE Fighter targeting computer.

 

As for the Correlian B-Wing ironicly enought out of all the diffrent B-Wing versions the Correlian is the most powerful because it carries 2 Turbo lasers.  The cockpit might be the way it is because the pilots wanted to fly a ship that has similar/same flight controls they are familar with. 

 

No, the Y-Tie is NOT more deadly than a Y-wing, otherwise they wouldn't bother making Y-wings, and they would scrap all the existing ones to create Y-Ties. That's just insane.

 

And, yes, when they pull a part from a ship, it does mean it is that part. Talking about what it is on the inside is bogus. TIE solar panels serve a specific purpose. Their form follows that function. Putting said panel on a Y means that you needed that function, never mind the fact that the Y's had something else to achieve it.

 

No junkyard dog is ever going to be on the same level as the professionally engineered rides. Is stuff going to be salvaged? Sure, some. But not to create Frankenstein builds. Don't you think it's a bit odd that they keep salvaging the exact same parts to build the exact same uglies? "Realistically" they'd use the salvaged parts to build new Y's and new TIE's, and keep the remaining parts for repairs. (It's like the M-class starfighter that uses three Y-wing engines... If you have the parts to build 2 M-class, then you have the parts the build 3 Y's, and you know that Y's actually work.)

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I hope wave 5 will be static defence. It might be the canons of a star destroyer, a rebell base or  a part of the deathstar.

I would be nice to do a proper attack and not just some random ships in the middle of space (where noone can hear you scream)

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The Z'Ceptor make sense, Cockpit wired to Astromech to supply avionics, a TIE cockpit which is used as a bridge between parts, proper engines and some interceptor panels to power the lasers. Fairly reasonable.

 

The Tie-Wing I like, but only when done correctly, Gosric added power cabeling which I totally agree with, but I would have also added the extra box behind the cockpit the appears in some comics to hold the extra relays needed to connect the engines to the TIE controls, and to transfer power to the engines.

 


 

And then you have the X-Ceptor... with no engines... the Y-Tie.. with no engines.... The Correlian/B-Wing.... REALLY.

 

So when I do my Pirates

5 or 6 Tie-Wings, some Z'Ceptors, and then I think I will make up the rest with maybe a Gozanti Cruiser and some Hutt consortium. Though I think I'll need to learn to use Wings-3D, or get back into Blender to make these

 

M3A-Scyk

 

250px-M3AScyk-SWG.jpg

 

M12-L Kimogila heavy fighter

 

250px-Kimogila.jpg

 

M22-T Krayt Gunship

 

250px-Kraytgunship.jpg

I like all these.

 

I really dislike the scimitar bomber (not to be confused with scimitar squadron) and most of the boxy ties.  I think the phantom is a great idea but terrible design.

 

The Uglies are all growing on me.  I like a few of them and understand all but a few of them.

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The reason there are lots of Tie-Wings compared to other uglies could very well be that TIE engines are precision machined and therefore very hard to maintain without the correct equipment  (also they may require the wings to function that are delicate), whereas their guns and controls are much mor robust. And the inverse true of the Y-Wing, it is possible that their engines are very easy to maintain, fix and replace parts for.

 

Also it may be very easy to slave the Y Engines to the TIE controls.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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Ok lets go over this step by step. A standard BLT-A4 is armed with 2 Taim & Bak KX5 Heavy Duty Laser Cannons and two Armek SW-4 Ion Cannons I am leaving out guided weapons for now. The Lasers the Y-Wing has has long range capabilities BUT has a somewhat moderate rate of fire. The Ion cannons have a good rate of fire if they are working at all. They vibrate their crystals out of alignment easily.

We dont know the type of Tie Laser cannons they use but it could be anything from the SFS L-s1 too the SFS L-s 7.2 and they could be a moded type for that matter. Ether way it carries four laser cannons that have a high rate of fire, and if they are the 7.2s they have good destructive power.

Targeting computers

The Y-Wing has Fabritech ANc-2.7 tracking computer and a SI 5g7 "Quickscan" vector imiaging system. Out of all the Rebel fighters that existed, up till E-Wing started showing up, the Y-Wing has the most precision capabile targeting computer posible to longest ranged as well.

The basic non-moded TIE Fighters targeting computer is the SFS T-s8 targeting computer. All of the Empires targeting computers are superior to everything that was made before them and that goes for Republic and old Republic star fighters. I am saying that last bit of info because I am reading the older topics and have seen comments that basically falsly point out older is better -_- I guess the first wooden prop plane is better than a old Republic W-wing ;).

So that being said this ugly without question has a better targeting computer a better rate of fire and could have nearly equal power as a Y-Wing if they got 7.2, or better firepower if they got their hands on a moded SFS Laser like from Scyth Squadron. Despite that it should still have better fire power because it has four tie lasercannons two in the nose two in the turret.

Few A4s have their Ions replaced ironic you only see them with Laser turrets during Return of the Jedi and one is packing a single barrel medium laser cannon in the turret.

ECM and ECCM capabilites should be the same as the A4.

This ugly uses the TIE Fighters scanners which has a 3D range of 399+ miles.

This ugly uses SFS P-s4 Twin ion engines. In space it should have the same acceleration as a non moded TIE which is 4,100 G. On a planet and with shields active it will be faster than the A4. Best part about the SFS P-s4 Twin Ion engine is that it has no moving parts unlike the A4s engines which are the Koensayr R200 Ion fission engines which use lots of moving parts. The TIEs engines require was les maintanice just because of that fact.

Since this ugly has the SFS Ps4 it MUST have the SFS I-a2b solar ionization reactor other wise it wouldnt have the ions to prople itself ergo it must use the TIE Fighter solar energy collectors in order to function. In this case I cant say which ship has a better reactor when it comes to duration or output. Maintanice does go to the SFS model.

For the most part it is better than the Rebel Y-Wings it even has more armor. The only things it does not have going for it is range and maybe heat dispursal.

The reason the Rebels dont use this ship would have to do with politics. After all they never keep using Imperial ships after capturing them excluding Star Destroyers. Leia in one story rather set fire to a TIE Interceptor rather than salvage it.

 

 


 

 

 

As for quote unquote junkyard ships never being better than a full production fighter that is not true in real life.  Iran has the Persian Tom Cat F-14.  It is now a hybrid american russian fighter and still has the most powerful targeting computer, radar, and air to air missiles.  It has been moded to use pilot helmet mounted targeting systems and to use huge Falcon ground to air missiles along with its normal complment.

 

This is a fighter the US air force is warry about dealing with.  The US has been sending sphere shaped drones that put out massive electromagnetic pulses for ECM and that didnt stop the F-14 from locking on to them.  Dont count of the small crosssection of the 22 and 35 to stop a lock on.

Edited by Black Knight Leader

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None of that is even remotely true but I'm not going to argue with you. If you want to believe that backyard mechanics can do better than the pros then there's no helping you.

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The reason there are lots of Tie-Wings compared to other uglies could very well be that TIE engines are precision machined and therefore very hard to maintain without the correct equipment  (also they may require the wings to function that are delicate), whereas their guns and controls are much mor robust. And the inverse true of the Y-Wing, it is possible that their engines are very easy to maintain, fix and replace parts for.

 

Also it may be very easy to slave the Y Engines to the TIE controls.

 

That's a very likely situation considering just how tiny are its engines multiplied by their high-performance. The Rebellion and other small-time operations just don't have the facilities or money to maintain such precision military hardware and need to go with more rugged and common-place parts.

 

So the Y-Wing engines may just have less power draw and can be mounted on a TIE fuselage without an extensive radiator system.

 

As for the Y-TIE, I wish someone would draw one with a couple of mid-sized engines to deal with the obvious question West End Games have left in their wake. Surely a set from a Tocsan 8Q or Headhunter or the like would be viable on an Ugly.

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You guys are discussing assembling Lego blocks as a valid method of engineering. It is not.

 

As for the actual discussion at hand, no, Uglies should not be made. Their fans should assemble them the same way the in-universe factions would: Cut up your perfectly good models and kitbash them.

 

And still NO to the Suncrusher.

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And the inverse true of the Y-Wing, it is possible that their engines are very easy to maintain, fix and replace parts for.

 

That may not be a possibility. Via Wookiepedia.

 

"It was a rugged design, but it had some design flaws requiring constant maintenance, which led to many aggravated maintenance crews getting fed up with constantly having to remove the superficial hull plating and disposing of it altogether. Due to this, many Y-wings had no hull plating (except on the cockpit), exposing the internals of the main hull."

Edited by Znieh

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[

No junkyard dog is ever going to be on the same level as the professionally engineered rides. Is stuff going to be salvaged? Sure, some. But not to create Frankenstein builds. Don't you think it's a bit odd that they keep salvaging the exact same parts to build the exact same uglies? "Realistically" they'd use the salvaged parts to build new Y's and new TIE's, and keep the remaining parts for repairs. (It's like the M-class starfighter that uses three Y-wing engines... If you have the parts to build 2 M-class, then you have the parts the build 3 Y's, and you know that Y's actually work.)

Spoken like someone who never customized his/her car. Do a quick search on hot rods in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s. For that matter, search the bootleggers of the prohibition era. Even today, all those 4-banger coupes can become quite fast with some new camshafts, or a changed gearbox. Just removing some of the "nice to haves" like a back seat can reduce the weight and make the car faster.

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And the inverse true of the Y-Wing, it is possible that their engines are very easy to maintain, fix and replace parts for.

 

That may not be a possibility. Via Wookiepedia.

 

"It was a rugged design, but it had some design flaws requiring constant maintenance, which led to many aggravated maintenance crews getting fed up with constantly having to remove the superficial hull plating and disposing of it altogether. Due to this, many Y-wings had no hull plating (except on the cockpit), exposing the internals of the main hull."

 

 

It might need constant maintenance, but it's very possible that this maintenance could be done with general materials, the TIE engine on the other hands might need very precisely machined parts which could only be gotten from a factory.

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And the inverse true of the Y-Wing, it is possible that their engines are very easy to maintain, fix and replace parts for.

 

That may not be a possibility. Via Wookiepedia.

 

"It was a rugged design, but it had some design flaws requiring constant maintenance, which led to many aggravated maintenance crews getting fed up with constantly having to remove the superficial hull plating and disposing of it altogether. Due to this, many Y-wings had no hull plating (except on the cockpit), exposing the internals of the main hull."

 

 

It might need constant maintenance, but it's very possible that this maintenance could be done with general materials, the TIE engine on the other hands might need very precisely machined parts which could only be gotten from a factory.

 

All I can say is that the TIE Fighter propellsion system is the SFS P-s4 Ion engine which has no moving parts while the Y-Wing A 4 has the two Konensayr R200 ion fission engines which has lots of moving parts.  Things with moving parts will need more maintenance than things without moving parts.

 

The ugly you are talking about has the Y-Wing engines for hyperspace travel I think.

Edited by Black Knight Leader

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