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TheRealStarkiller

So how about this bomber list

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Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

x 4

 

= 100

 

------

 

This gives a potential splash damage of 8!

 

 

What do you think this list would perform against the most common lists like Tie swarm, XXXX, XXBB and HSF?

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This could work extremely well on TIE Swarms, obviously, but as for XXBB? Ehhhh... It could also be hell to be pitted against an A-Wing heavy squad though. I'd change one or two of the Assault Missiles out for either homing or cluster. Also, there's no pilot skill here, so you could easily get picked off one by one by more skilled pilots. It seems okay, for swarms, but once there's something a bit more weighty I see it falling apart.

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4 bomber is tough, but do-able.

You've elected to go with Gamma, which is a good decision: level 4 pilots will get their target locks and drop their bombs more accurately and often than level 2s.

 

Seismic Mines are astonishing, as they're essentially free damage. This gives you excellence against swarms.
For that reason, I don't necessarily think you NEED the Assault missiles, as you've got the bombs that give you strength against the same thing.

Now that we've got 20 points to spend, let's think about its strengths and weaknesses.

 

  • It's great against swarms, as your Bombs improve with the number of ships you're facing. The fact that you'll out-level them also gives you greater survivability, as you won't take damage from ships the turn they're destroyed.
  • It's excellent against Biggs fleets, as the bombs will bypass his natural ability.

 

  • It's weak against 3-damage ships, particularly with improved accuracy, such as Gunner.
  • It's weak against Ions, as they prevent you from dropping your bombs.
  • It's weak against Crit-Heavy fleets, as you have lots of hull to accrue them.
  • It's weak against highly-survivable fleets if you're firing with your 2 main-guns.
  • It's weak against a high-level Alpha-Strike fleet, as you're only rolling 2 evasion dice.

 

How do we plug the holes? Well, missiles of any sort will help you pick off your high-value targets (such as 3-damage ships with Gunner, Crit-Boosted ships, and Highly-Survivable ships). Now the question becomes which missiles to use?

  • Cluster Missiles: At Range 1-2, and going up against their evasion dice twice, this is only good if you boost one of your pilots to Jonus. If you decide to do so, these become potentially devastating. If it's a High-Survival fleet based on HP rather than on Evasion, these are particularly nice. Not so good against 4x Interceptors with PtL and Stealth who focus and evade every turn, though.
  • Concussion Missiles: Range 2-3, 4 Dice, and you can change 1 Blank to a Hit. If you can manage to focus alongside the required target lock, the only way you're NOT rolling 4 Hits/Crits is if you roll 2 or more blanks! (Odds of rolling blanks for this missile= (3^X)*(number of variations of blank locations)/8^4, where X is the number of blanks you'll get, minus 1 blank for the Concussion to Hit conversion). In the real world, though, you rarely get the luxury unless you're going with Push the Limit or another way to get multiple actions in a turn. Then, we'd adjust the above formula to count Focuses as Blanks, and find that the odds of damage are still pretty darned good. King of the 4 pointers.
  • Assault Missiles: Essentially a standard missile with a Seismic Charge attached. As you've already got the Charges, you don't need to double up.
  • Homing Missiles: Essentially a standard missile, except A) They cannot dodge with Evade tokens, and B) you MAINTAIN YOUR TARGET LOCK, probably using it to re-roll your dice in this attack. As each attack die naturally has a 50/50 shot of landing as a Hit/Crit vs a Focus/Blank, re-rolling it gives you the same odds as though you were Focused during the attack as well, with better benefits if you wind up not needing it. King of the 5 pointers.

 

Now, something else to consider is Captain Jonus, as his bonus lends heavy weight to your Alpha Strike. As he only costs 4 more points than a Gamma, that's easily bought by equipping your bombers with one of the 4 costed missiles, or a mix of the two. Remember, his bonus does not apply to himself, nor does it apply to the bombs, so this might not be his ideal fleet, but it's still something to consider. 

 

That leads us to 2 final fleet-builds, one of which can be modified quite a bit.

 

==========================================

 

4x Gamma Squadron Pilot

+ Seismic Charges

+ Homing Missiles

[25 Each]

 

 

==========================================

 

3x Gamma Squadron Pilot

+ Seismic Charges

+ Concussion/Cluster Missiles

[24 Each]

 

Captain Jonus

+ Seismic Charges

+ Concussion/Cluster Missiles

[28]

 

==========================================

 

Hope this helps!

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Gammas have a PS value of 4. Should be fine enough for a decent alpha strike with all missiles at once. And for defence 1 ships like the B-Wing you don't even need to focus to score a hit (and trigger the splash damage).

Maybe there is a problem vs. ace pilots and high defence ships ...

 

So how about this:

 

Krassis Trelix 36

HLC 7

Seismic 2

Assault missile 5

 

Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

Gamma Bomber 18

Assault Missile 5

Seismic charge 2

 

 

This would give you a Firespray as a big bomber

 

@DraconPyrothayan

 

I like your analysis. What do you think about using proton bombs?

Edited by TheRealStarkiller

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@DraconPyrothayan

 

I like your analysis. What do you think about using proton bombs?

I absolutely love them. Getting a Crit early game underneath shields is absolutely astonishing. In one game, I used it and pulled 2 munition failures...against Jan Ors and one of her HLC based Blue Squadron buddies.

One can potentially 1-shot an entire fleet of A-Wings, and two together have pretty good odds to 2-shot any small-based ship in the game (Two chances to get your 7/33 odds of a Direct Hit!), excepting Y-Wings (which would survive 2x Direct Hits!, annoyingly), and you can potentially do it to every ship your opponent is fielding.

 

It's not the best option for THIS fleet, however, as you'd only have 8 points left over. You could go with 4x Scimitar Squaddies with a 4-point Missile and Protons, but at that point I'd rather ditch the Protons for a 5th bomber with a Missile. However, if you're running 2 or 3 bombers as part of a Swarm, it's DEFINITELY worth the pick-up!

Edited by DraconPyrothayan

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I think you are going to have some issues getting the TLs on for the first attack of the game as you have a fairly low PS on the Gammas (not awful with PS4, but a bit low). I personally like running either Howlrunner with Squad Leader (so they can pass an action at PS 8 over to a Gamma after the enemy has moved most of their models, also allows you to get one ship with TL and Focus on your Alpha Strike). The other option I quite like is Jendon with ST-321 (You can use 1 moves for the first couple of turns so when you get to the enemy you have all your TLs already gained)

 

Both options allow you to get off at least 1 TL + Focus shot. And Jendon can let you get off 3 in the first engagement.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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Bombers are awesome.... admittedly I think I like best the 3x Gamma and Jonus build, built a similar one myself.

Edited by oneway

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i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?

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i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?

 

 

 

 

Why 4 dice? Evade actions? ... you don't get a bonus green dice at range 3 with secondary Weapons. Assault Missles also make a mess of them.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind
DraconPyrothayan likes this

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i think the Gammas r a good call. scimitars will struggle to get away a target locked attacks against most targets because they have to rely on the target moving before they target lock. Gammas should be able to move up and get the job done imo.

i actually think against tie swarms a bomber list is going to struggle a bit -  tie-fighters have 4 agility dice on defense and will be hard to pin with ur alpha strike. has anyone reading this had experience with this matchup?

 

 

Why 4 dice? Evade actions? ... you don't get a bonus green dice at range 3 with secondary Weapons. Assault Missles also make a mess of them.

 

As do Seismic Charges and Proton Bombs, and you've got enough natural survivability to trim them down to a fair fight regardless.

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If you are doing a bomber list you have to take Jonus. Don't give him any missiles, bombs or torpedoes if you need the points. Re-rolling 2 dice is great. It means you don't need Homing-Missiles (and if you are playing against the Rebellion you don't want them). Cluster Missiles are great!

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Here is my recommended list

Jonus

Scimitar Pilot + Cluster Missiles + Concussion Missiles x3

That leaves you with 6 more points.

If you think you will be facing a swarm change the Concussion Missiles to Assault Missiles

Elusive on Jonus is probably a good idea too. (his starting agility is too low for a stealth device)

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Lets try to stick with the Gammas first.

I like the idea having a higher PS than Academies, Obsidian, Rookies, prototypes and greens, blues, and so on

It is also likely that you face PS4 enemy like the Daggers - in this case it is important that you don't have the initiative!

 

When we add Jonus to the list, we basically trade an assault missile and a seismic charge for a better chance to hit for the remaining 3 assault missiles. Adding SL to Jonus further enhances the chances of one assault missile.

 

Captain Jonus
Squad Leader
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #1
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #2
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges
25 points

Gamma Squadron Pilot #3
Assault Missiles, Seismic Charges

 

= 99 points

 

And this is the problem in this list - not only we lose a potential splash damage of 2 - we also get initiative, which we don't want to.

To solve the initiative problem we could give jonus an upgrade worth 3 points (and get rid of SL)

but what would this be?

 

Proximity Mines? - im not a fan of this.

Daredevil? - probably not

Push the limit? - for TL and focus in the same round? . well

Marksmanship? - no

Stealth Device? - maybe

 

Maybe just giving jonus a seismic and determination, so he can't lose his ability.

Or maybe . just trading jonus in for another assault miss in a gamma ...

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As you can see - i like my bombers actually carring a bomb. And I think assault missiles working pretty well together with seismic charges while the don't neccesarily work as wel together with proton bombs, if your target used to have shields.

 

So, if you intend to use proton bombs, you probably don't want or don't need further warheads on your bombers. on the one hand you lose the alpha strike - on the other hand you make your bombers a less attractive target - assuming there are other ships in your list.

 

So maybe a list with 2 ace Interceptors and 2 Bombers with proton bombs .?.

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You could swap one seismic for a proximity or drop a seismic and up another seismic to a proton bomb, or as you have squad leader swap an assault for an Adv proton as you already cover a lot of splash damage. This all ressults in 100pts

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Sorry including non bombers is against the thread but I have been having a lot of success with a tie and bomber mix.

This is not quite it but rejigged for your symmetry I hope.

Scimitar + assault + seismic

X2

Black squad + draw fire

X2

Howlrunner + squad leader + stealth

Or drop seismics to up to gamma.

I do prefer flying as many ships at same pilot skill as possible in swarms.

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Just for response completion. Not symetrical i know but the next variant of my squad i plan to test is,

Gamma + assault + seismic

Gamma + APT + seismic

Black + DTF

Black

Howlrunner + squad leader

I find the stealth forgoable as everyone nearly always focusses on the APT and after is is spent I no longer worry about lost actions

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Long story short, take Jonus, don't take any upgrades for him except perhaps a seismic charge and/or squad leader. After that either go with 3 gamma squadron pilots with less ordnance or with Scimitar squadrons with more ordnance! Assault missiles are actually not a bad choice. Since every common squadron likes to group up. But try to get a second action for them, or you might just miss and waste them.

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Haha forget about symmetry.

I think the list is fine if there are at least 2 bombers in it ;)

 

So you have 3 fighters and 2 bombers.

2 Blacks to guard Howl, while she boosts 4 guns in total - after the missiles are away.

SL ensures that at least one of the bombers will be able to release the missile.

 

What do you think this list will perform against XXXX, XXBB, Swarm, HSF?

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To be honest the black is initially in there to draw crits of the bombers until they fire ordnance, drawn discard secondary or blinded pilot too often for my liking.

I have flown almost this squad but with no seismics and a stealth on howl and an extra draw fire. It was against a 3 bwing build with a blue, Ib, ten. Was few weeks ago and all had adv sens and at least Ten had autoblaster and Ib had PTL.

It was a brutal game and I lost but he only had Ten left.

My memory fades a little but I do know it was the first time i had flown against adv sens also autoblasters, as an imperial i now hate both.

I think it was mainly inexperiance against those two things and my first 3bwing opponent.

But to answer your question

Swarm - Def fancy my chances

Hsf - probably biggest prob

Xxxx - depends on build and opponent

Xxbb - same as above but would rather face blue thunder than bloody daggers.

My background for saying this after only one game is because I went to a tournament last month with a squad i pnly created the night before.

Scimitar + APT

Scimitar + assault

Gamma + concussion

Black + dtf

Howlrunner and squad leader

18 players 5 games and I came joint 3rd.

My only loss was against twin falcons, chewie and han. I flew badly and again my first ever game against twin falcons.

Other games (simplified) were

Turr, vader, academy x3

Krassis, night beast, alpha and academy x2 I think

Biggs, wedge, Jan ors

Rhymer, backstabber, howl and gamma

Hope this helps explain my answer and provide one.

Will test new squad against another friend Wednesday, I know the first game he will play

Ib w/ PTL engine

Dutch ion r2d2

Wedge PTL r2

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