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Katarn007

My Worlds Experience

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Not really have time to test lists, and being unsure of what to play, I went to worlds with 2 possible lists, and flipped a coin.  So, I went with:

 

Wedge

Vet Instincts

Shield Upgrade

 

Luke

R2-D2

Draw Their Fire

Shield Upgrade

 

Biggs

Shield Upgrade

 

I wasn’t sure about a 3 ship list, but it looked fun, and certainly fit into my play style.  Sorry about some of the lack of detail in some of these reports, and if I got names wrong, but it was a long day.

 

First round:

Played against Jonathan J.  - Kath, 1 Obsidian Pilot, 3 Academy Pilots

 

Picked off a 2 TIEs early, after a bit of dancing, got the third. Kath took out Biggs before going down.   Luke and Wedge moped up the last Academy Pilot.

 

W (1-0)

 

Secound Round:

Played against Brain S. – Howlrunner with Stealth Device, Captain Jonas with squad Leader and Stealth Device, 2 Scimitar Squad Pilots (1 with Cluster Missiles and Proton Torpedoes, the other with Adv. Proton and Assault Missile).

 

Now, I am not going to lie, with this set up, all of those secondary weapons were a bit intimidating, especially the Adv Protons and the Assault Missile.  So, I focused my attention there first.  After some decent rolling on both our parts, the Scimitar survived with 1 hull left.  Then, the dice swung in my favor.  Even with Jonas rerolls, the Assault Missile only rolls one hit, which was evaded.  This was followed by the Proton which rolled better with the rerolls, 2 hit and a crit.  And Biggs rolls 2 evades , Luke taking the crit.

 

The following turn was really the breaking point of the game.  All 7 ships on the board do K-turns.  One of the 2 Scimitars complete their turns.  Biggs completes his.  Jonas and Howlrunner fail to complete their turns, while Luke and Wedge complete theirs.  So, sitting nicely in their back arcs, my squad runs down the ships that failed their turns, ignoring the Bomber that made the K-turn.  With 1 Scimitar left, and the only damage on my team being lost shields on Biggs (R2 repaired Luke’s damaged shield), my opponent conceded.

 

W (2-0)

 

Round 3:

Vs Matt O – Wedge with Swarm Tactics, Chewie with Draw Their Fire, and a Rookie Pilot (might be missing some upgrades here)

 

A game of hot dice here for me, without a doubt.  First round of combat, I take out his Wedge, losing only a shield on Biggs and a shield on Luke, who took one of Biggs crits.  After some asteroid dancing, took down the rookie, and after losing Biggs, Luke and Wedge finish the Wookie.

 

W (3-0)

 

Round the Fourth:

Vs Doug K. (Hothie) – Kath with Proton Bomb, Recon Specialist, Adrenaline Rush, BH with Proton Bomb and Rebel Captive, Academy Pilot

 

Now, everyone told me that Doug was a great person to play against, and I will tell you, they are not wrong.  That said, having the defending World Champion across the table was intimidating.

I will have to admit, a lot of that game I spent rolling amazing.  First few rounds of shooting, I was consistently rolling 2/3 or 3/3 unmodified hits, and Doug was missing evades left and right.  On top on that, Doug rolled below average on his attacks, and I rolled well on my evades.  Despite some maneuver errors and poor dice, Doug did play his bombs well.  The first hitting Wedge and Luke, dealing 2 damage to Wedge and taking out Luke’s action bar, but also ended up hitting Kath too.  After some maneuver errors on my part and getting stressed every shot, Wedge took down the BH.  As I tried to regroup my squad, Doug placed the second bomb beautifully, killing Wedge, taking out Luke’s Pilot ability and elite upgrade, and taking out Bigg’s non-existent secondary weapon. 

 

Kath came around with a white K-turn and finished off Biggs.  Kath flew by Luke.  And Luke, 1 hull left and full shields, K-Turns and takes out the Academy Pilot.  At this point, both Kath and Luke have just one hull left, and with shields and higher pilot skill, I had the advantage.  Still trying to repair Luke’s action bar, we trade shots for 2 rounds, Kath evading Luke’s fire with the double focus from Recon specialist, then firing back, and having lost Luke’s evade ability, taking shield damage.  And this is where the all-star of the list came through: R2-D2.  Sticking to green maneuvers and trading fire at range 3, the shield repairs from R2 kept me in the game.  Finally repairing the action bar, Luke next round gets to take a target lock.  Firing, I roll and blank and 2 focus, reroll them all and get 3 hits which Kath doesn’t evade.

 

That was, by far, one of the most intense and closest games I have ever played, and thank you Doug for being a fantastic player and opponent.  That was, no matter how that game would have ended, the highlight of my weekend.

 

W (4-0)

 

Round five:

Vs. Dominic C - Howlrunner with Stealth Device, 3 Obsidian Pilots, 3 Academy Pilots

 

Being a co-owner of a game store in Minneapolis (Universe Games), I don’t as much time to practice against top lists like TIE swarm nearly as much I would like, and, to be completely honest, I had never even played my list until today…  So, I go into this match up, knowing it will be extremely difficult, but otherwise completely clueless. 

 

Dominic sets up his ships.  Then, being tired and still trying to shake the adrenaline rush from playing Doug, I, like a complete rookie, set up directly across from him, guaranteeing a fantastic charge into a blaze of fiery death.  Needless to say, going into the (likely) hardest possible match-up, and ignoring all possible tactical thinking, I did not fare well…

 

L (4-1)

 

At this point, I am still feeling great.  Sure, I did play poorly in my last round, but seriously, at 4-1, how am I not making top 16?  Final standings went up, and that’s when my day went from amazing to abysmal.  Even at 4-1 (all 4 wins being full victories), I found myself in 19th place.  I, along with 3 other players, went 4-1, and did not make the cut…

 

I will admit, some of this is just my own frustration, but really, that should just not happen.  The simple answer is:  5 rounds were not enough before the cut.  Had there been no byes (except of course the natural bye result in an odd number of players) 5 rounds could have been acceptable. But, with all the regional winner byes, after 5 rounds, we had 7 5-0s and 13 4-1s.

 

Now, as of the time I am writing this, I am not nearly as angry as I was, but understandably, I feel cheated.  Coming in, playing my way through, representing the local players, being the underdog who had never done this well at a major event, and then being told, “Well, 2 of your other opponents did not do well, so tough luck” was extremely soul crushing.

 

I understand the difficulty in running 6 major events in a 4 day span (plus side events and second chance tournaments), and I know the team at FFG were doing their best, but, as someone who has done their fair share of judging and being on the staff of major events, things should have been planned better.  From what I heard, Star Wars LCG started an hour late on Day 1.  I don’t know all the details of how the other events were run, so I am not going to comment on those, but based on the popularity of their games, and with preregistration numbers, they should have at least had an idea of how many people to expect, as well as how many Swiss rounds would be appropriate before making a final cut.  For example, a Magic event with 65 to 128 players cutting to a top 8 would play 7 rounds.  For an event cutting to top 16, 6 rounds should have played.

 

Really, no one should have to go through what 3 other players and I went through:  playing fantastic games, have the joy and excitement of being X-1, and then being told, “That’s not good enough.”  I know that I was angry, but I can’t imagine how angry someone who traveled from out of the state, or even from out of the country, would be getting this result.  Despite playing some of the best and most enjoyable games I have played with X-Wing, especially the nail-biter against Doug, this turn of events really spoiled my entire experience this weekend.

 

To add to that frustration, I did, calmly and politely, give the feedback, that these results should not happen, and that it clearly shows there should be more Swiss rounds in the future.  One of the responses I got was, “Well, there are time constraints.”  I let it go at the time, being extremely angry and crushed by this experience.  But seriously, time constraints?  It’s not like FFG is renting out an extra room they need to have cleared by a certain time…  If they would have stuck to their posted schedule and left all the elimination rounds on Sunday instead of have top 16 play Saturday, there could have been 6 Swiss rounds.  I feel that the X-Wing event in particular was scaled back for time at the expense of the players’ experience, which is very disappointing.

 

I sincerely hope that FFG takes the frustration and feedback from this event (not just X-Wing, but Worlds in general) and makes the appropriate changes to improve the player experience in the future.

 

And, after all that frustration I just described, I do want to thank all of my opponents again for some great games, and for being the positive part of my Worlds experience.

 

 

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Thanks for the report, and congratulations on some good games.

 

You didn't mention why they didn't follow the posted schedule. Did they start the event late, or did the rounds run longer than expected? Or did they have player registration on the day, which might have resulted in an unexpectedly large turnout?

Edited by DagobahDave

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X-Wing didn't start as late as LCG did, about 15-20 minutes as I recall.  There were day of registrations, but that shouldn't have added that much time.  There was no reason given for the change.  We were informed at the beginning before Round 1 that we'd be playing 5 rounds and the Top 16 would play Saturday, and top 8 Sunday.

 

Had everyone played the first round, I think 5 rounds would have been fine.  That would have given 3-4 undefeated players, a good number of 4-1s and possibly even one or two 3-2s.  I think when they chose the number of rounds, they didn't take into account all the players who had first round byes from regional/national championships.  But that is pure speculation on my part.

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Whenever you make a cut, and one that goes to the tiebreaker, someone will get "screwed". How will additional rounds fix this? Just how many 4-1s were there?  

 

And keep in mind, there are many time considerations to remember. This isn't Gencon, sure, but even Gencon closed relatively early on Sun. How many of the travelers be able to stay the extra round(s) required if they adjusted the schedule to your desire. And one thing I've noticed, is that it is hard to keep gamers on schedule. 

 

Yes, it sucks that you missed the cut. There will likely always be at least one person who is cut by the tiebreakers. But thank you for the report, and good job on the tournament.

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Please keep in mind, that my opinions on the number of rounds is not just my frustration in missing the cut, but also from experience as someone who has been on the staff of 100, 200, 300 player events.  In this instance, one more round would have resulted in 3-4 undefeated players, 6-7 x-1s and a few x-2s.  Which I feel would have been a better representation of the top 16. 

 

You are right, someone will always be in that sore, just missed it spot.  But I don’t think any player should go to an event of this size, take just one loss, and worry that they’re not going to make it.  Who knows, I might have still missed the cut at x-2, but I know that at x-2 my odds of making it are slim.

 

On the issue of time constraints, this event is at FFG Game Center.  Sure, they have to pay rent on the space, but as far as what goes on in that space, FFG has the control.  I felt the time constraint comment was really just a weak excuse.

Edited by Katarn007

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thanks for the report, it's enjoyable for ppl like me who can't go to such events (I can't get any of my local shops to host tournaments).  

 

and i think your "frustration" (to use your word) was actually well thought out and respectful. especially after taking time to cool off and think it through.  and i would agree with you 5 rounds isn't enough to prove much of anything.

if I may ask, how many ppl were there to play X-wing?

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First off: great list, great battle report.

Secondly, the problem was that they elected to have a top 20, when clearly a top 16 or a top 32 would have been the more logical break-down. In the situation you were in, a 24 slot bracket with a single buy slot would have been logical: everyone with 4 or more wins would have gotten into the finals, ending with a top 3 play instead of a top 4.

The tie breakers were probably in the people against whom you played: Howlrunner, Jonus, and 2x Scimitar probably lost more than the average player. Similarly, Kath +4 ties. Your random pairings are what screwed you there, mate.

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First off: great list, great battle report.

Secondly, the problem was that they elected to have a top 20, when clearly a top 16 or a top 32 would have been the more logical break-down. In the situation you were in, a 24 slot bracket with a single buy slot would have been logical: everyone with 4 or more wins would have gotten into the finals, ending with a top 3 play instead of a top 4.

 

It was a top 16 cut.  I think where you got the 20 number from was there were 20 players at x-1 or better.  But my basic point has been:  a player with one loss should not have to wonder if they should bother to continue playing.  4 of us had to go home because we lost one game.  I feel at that point, you are not playing a Swiss style tournament, but a drawn out single elimination.

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Wow. Sad to hear. Sounds like something went wrong in event planning. I've been on both sides of the cut for other games and feel that a game, often decided by dice, should have a little more room for error than perfect or go home. Turns a skill game into a luck game and at the world class level that is not a good plan.

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You were an absolute pleasure to play against, and a terrific sport. I apologize for my mental breakdowns during that game, and I hope you know that absolutely none of my frustration was directed at you.

It was an epic game, for sure, and you deserved to win. Sorry to hear you didn't make top 16. Was a pleasure to meet you. Hopefully we can play again sometime. :)

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We always have room for improvement and if you were luckier or played better you would have made the cut. As would the people behind you.
Did your opponent strength factor in?

Edited by jem

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First Katarn007, that sucks.  I feel awful for everyone that went four and one and didn’t make the cut.  I went 4-1 and when I finished my game I had the realization that I might not make the top 16.  I did the math and knew I had a chance but not a guarantee.  I agree that the event format needs to change but players should have known before the day started that the only guarantee was 5-0.  Yea it sucks, it sucks bad.  I would have been crushed too if I didn’t make the cut.   The question is how does the format change?

 

I think the power of the regional winner bye is too strong.  If you weren’t a regional winner your chance was 5-0 or nothing from the start.

 

No offense to anyone who went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut but I truly believe that this year FFG got the best of the best from the world at the event.  The top 16 was brutal and swarm dominated.  It was a tough and exhausting event.  The top 16 round didn’t end till midnight.  That’s 12 hours of X-wing.  You got the best of the best in the top 16 and I’m honored to say that I was one of them.  Yet think of the players that didn’t make the top 16.  There was the current national champion, former world champ, countless Regional winners, and European champs.  It was the best of the best at the event and if you went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut, it sucks, but **** man props to you because this was the HARDEST EVENT FOR X-WING YET. 

 

I know I made it by the skin of my teeth, my regional win, some hot dice in the last round, and huge support from my friends.  Like I said earlier I did the math and I didn’t think I was going to make the cut and my friends picked me up.

 

Thanks by the way, Hothie, Troy, Gabe, Jeremy, Jake, Scott, and Lyle.  I don’t know which one of you guys picked me up more.  I know I missing people in this.

 

My two losses in the event were to both Paul and Dallas.  They were both solid all weekend and both deserved to be at the final table.  (also they were nice guys to play against which is good for the game.)

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I think the power of the regional winner bye is too strong.  If you weren’t a regional winner your chance was 5-0 or nothing from the start.

 

Which is a good thing that they are dramatically cutting the amount of Regionals next year.

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No offense to anyone who went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut but I truly believe that this year FFG got the best of the best from the world at the event.  The top 16 was brutal and swarm dominated.  It was a tough and exhausting event.  

 

It was the best of the best at the event and if you went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut, it sucks, but **** man props to you because this was the HARDEST EVENT FOR X-WING YET. 

 

I certainly agree, it was a tough event filled with fantastic players.  And thank you, despite not making the cut, I am very pleased with how I played, and I look forward to the next major event.

 

At this point, I am questioning the decision to have that first elimination round Saturday, instead of doing it all Sunday.  Frankly, I think an earlier start across the board wouldn't hurt either.  At the same time, I don't know the reasons for those descions either.  What I do know, is that I went from exhilaration to being punched in the gut and mugged when those final standings went up.  There is a huge difference between being x-1 and thinking you are for sure in and being x-2 and knowing you are on the bubble.  I really just want to be sure that at future events, someone else doesn't go through the emotional roller coaster I did.

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You were an absolute pleasure to play against, and a terrific sport. I apologize for my mental breakdowns during that game, and I hope you know that absolutely none of my frustration was directed at you.

It was an epic game, for sure, and you deserved to win. Sorry to hear you didn't make top 16. Was a pleasure to meet you. Hopefully we can play again sometime. :)

 

hothie, I know you had a lot that was not going right, and those dice rolls and loose dials did not help.  I did not feel at any time your frustration was directed at me.  You also were a fantastic opponent, and I also look forward to playing you again.

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Geeze you two get a room, there is way too much 'way to go' and 'you were a great opponent' positive sportsmanship in this game. Don't you know there isn't a sportsmanship score? I want to see people rage and yell at each other across the table lol. j/k 

 

I am so use to 40K it's strange to see a community of players who actually support one another. Remember Fly Casual folks! 

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No offense to anyone who went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut but I truly believe that this year FFG got the best of the best from the world at the event.  The top 16 was brutal and swarm dominated.  It was a tough and exhausting event.  

 

It was the best of the best at the event and if you went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut, it sucks, but **** man props to you because this was the HARDEST EVENT FOR X-WING YET. 

 

I certainly agree, it was a tough event filled with fantastic players.  And thank you, despite not making the cut, I am very pleased with how I played, and I look forward to the next major event.

 

At this point, I am questioning the decision to have that first elimination round Saturday, instead of doing it all Sunday.  Frankly, I think an earlier start across the board wouldn't hurt either.  At the same time, I don't know the reasons for those descions either.  What I do know, is that I went from exhilaration to being punched in the gut and mugged when those final standings went up.  There is a huge difference between being x-1 and thinking you are for sure in and being x-2 and knowing you are on the bubble.  I really just want to be sure that at future events, someone else doesn't go through the emotional roller coaster I did.

 

 

Hello all, 

First off - I had a fantastic weekend, the people in the tournament really made it for me, and it was such a pleasure to make so many new friends. :)

 

I think something they could have done differently for time is:

 

1) To add the 6th round - which I believe should have also been scheduled - you could start the tournament prior to noon? Registration started at around 11 am, but many of us were there around 10 am in the morning. By maybe moving up the start time to 11, and then the registration time to 10 - you could easily add another round within the day.

 

2) Doing top 16 the next morning. Also - those start times could have been a tad bit earlier too - I'm not sure if it started at 11 am or 12 pm, but an earlier start time would mean we would get done sooner rather than later. A 10 AM start time does not seem like a lot to ask.

 

 

 

I think the power of the regional winner bye is too strong.  If you weren’t a regional winner your chance was 5-0 or nothing from the start.

 

Which is a good thing that they are dramatically cutting the amount of Regionals next year.

 

 

I believe that the regional winner bye would not have been too strong if another round had been played. I also felt as if the NA championship winner, the UK championship winner, and the Nordic championship winner should have not been on equal playing terms as those who may have just won a Regionals.

 

I understand providing people who did not have the opportunity is important as well - but I also feel like those who deserve a win - deserve some kind of reward. 

 

Furthermore, I think it is sad that they are cutting the amount of Regionals being played. Maybe perhaps cut the elevation it gives them, but I feel like Regionals really provides an opportunity for us as players to congregate and play together. :)

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Furthermore, I think it is sad that they are cutting the amount of Regionals being played. Maybe perhaps cut the elevation it gives them, but I feel like Regionals really provides an opportunity for us as players to congregate and play together. :)

 

 

It isn't so much as cutting the Regionals, as renaming what were this years Regionals. Those will now be the Store Championship. We should have about as many of those as we had Regionals last year. Now, the Regionals will be fewer, but with the higher reward of the Worlds bye (I presume). And with fewer, ideally more will travel to play in them. At most, I see one Regional per state. In my mind, they are putting value back into Regionals, by making them fewer, thus likely, a bit more competitive than glorified locals they were last year.

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---------- Posted by Picasso -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First Katarn007, that sucks.  I feel awful for everyone that went four and one and didn’t make the cut.  I went 4-1 and when I finished my game I had the realization that I might not make the top 16.  I did the math and knew I had a chance but not a guarantee.  I agree that the event format needs to change but players should have known before the day started that the only guarantee was 5-0.  Yea it sucks, it sucks bad.  I would have been crushed too if I didn’t make the cut.   The question is how does the format change?

 

I think the power of the regional winner bye is too strong.  If you weren’t a regional winner your chance was 5-0 or nothing from the start.

 

No offense to anyone who went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut but I truly believe that this year FFG got the best of the best from the world at the event.  The top 16 was brutal and swarm dominated.  It was a tough and exhausting event.  The top 16 round didn’t end till midnight.  That’s 12 hours of X-wing.  You got the best of the best in the top 16 and I’m honored to say that I was one of them.  Yet think of the players that didn’t make the top 16.  There was the current national champion, former world champ, countless Regional winners, and European champs.  It was the best of the best at the event and if you went 4-1 and didn’t make the cut, it sucks, but **** man props to you because this was the HARDEST EVENT FOR X-WING YET. 

 

I know I made it by the skin of my teeth, my regional win, some hot dice in the last round, and huge support from my friends.  Like I said earlier I did the math and I didn’t think I was going to make the cut and my friends picked me up.

 

Thanks by the way, Hothie, Troy, Gabe, Jeremy, Jake, Scott, and Lyle.  I don’t know which one of you guys picked me up more.  I know I missing people in this.

 

My two losses in the event were to both Paul and Dallas.  They were both solid all weekend and both deserved to be at the final table.  (also they were nice guys to play against which is good for the game.)

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Man Ryan, I consider you a good X-Wing friend, but I think your ego is a little out of control here. Obviously the Top 16 wasn't comprised solely of the best players in the world. I certainly agree that you got a lot of great players in the Top 16 (such as Paul Heaver, Aaron from TC, David Bergstrom, and others), but I also feel that players like Doug (2012 World champ), Craig (UK National champ), Marten (Nordic Champ), Lyle (North American Championship Top 4), Richard White (Team Covenant tournament finalist) etc deserve some credit here. I even wonder if some of them (like Doug, Craig and Marten) could have been automatically put into the final (perhaps extended) cut to reward them for winning at a recent National/World level.

 

Let's be honest, the naming of these tournaments is not quite within convention. In most competitive arenas, the "regional" winners would be the only ones competing at a National tournament and only the National winners would be competing at a World tournament. Of course, that wouldn't be very fun, and that's why FFG doesn't run their tournaments in a truly tiered fashion; which is okay, but let's keep that in mind. Getting into the Top 16 at the X-Wing World Tournament doesn't automatically make you the 16th or better X-Wing player in the whole world, just like my winning the North American championship in no way makes me the best X-Wing player in North America.

 

Finally, check yourself in regards to the fullness of your wins and please have some humility, my friend. Don't ruin our community by flaunting.

Edited by Atomic Boxer

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Jake,

I didn't mean to come off as having an ego.  I was trying to point out the strength of the event.  As I said in my post I didn't think I was going to make it.  I still can't believe I did because there were way better players then me that didn't make the cut.  I was also trying to make a point that several people said saturday and that is that the regional winner bye was to strong and that if you didn't have one you were in a tough spot from the beginning.  I think that is garbage and needs to change.  That was my main point.  If I came off as having an ego I'm sorry that was not in any way my intention.  I was not trying to flaunt.  I was trying to point out the strength of the event and how hard it was.  I was trying to draw attention to the fact that there were all these amazing players there and that like katarn007 probably should have made the cut instead of me.  

 

That tournament was brutal and I can't imagine trying to do it again or with more people using that same format.

 

Again Jake sorry I didn't mean to come off that way.

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Tournaments this big are a pain when it comes to tie breakers. TC had a mini meltdown when there were more than a few 3-1 finishes. I take it as the nature of the beast, but I do feel a little bitten to not have made it in.

In a perfect world they either go another round or take 32. (of course someone then is 33rd and loses on tie breakers...

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