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wyrm187

Over powered decks

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i know i hate myself for saying this, but i cannot believe any deck can win on 1 turn with such consistency.....but as with tracker i have difficutly understanding the translations so cannot really comment

 

i think the best way to prove these things are a video link to either an octgn game or a real life game....is there one?

rich

There's no video sorry and the player who build this deck is a great player of Magic the gathering

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The bigger problem is the Outlands because, as said above, there is no such one errata solution. Though, actually, if you shaft the Herdsman, you still have a Lore Outlands ally (the Hunter) that is very good, and they all remain fragile at 1 hit point, and will be crushed by certain encounter cards. I think that would be the easiest solution..

Taking the herdsmen out of an Outlands deck would be a game changer, and probably the best solution, at least for quests that have treachery and shadow cards that could deal damage to allies.

 

Yes, it would not be a silver bullet solution but at least a try - without destroying too many cards.

I know this has been addressed so many times but do the designers actually play-test much? I know they say so but then they surely must see that playing Outlands is much easier than usual decks. It beats Lake-town regularly (not saying always) whilst other decks get smashed more often than not, and great decks too.

What is worst about it, for me, though is that you do not really build decks with Outlands. You just insert the cards given to you. There is little to no option, especially after the Lord of Morthond came out.

danpoage likes this

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Oh, thanks Lilian, so I was totally wrong about Peace, and Thought, it is of course Campfire Tales, I completely forgot about that card, it being rather poor in general.

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What is worst about it, for me, though is that you do not really build decks with Outlands. You just insert the cards given to you. There is little to no option, especially after the Lord of Morthond came out.

 

yes- this. there really is no deck building in outlands, which is different from dwarves which is why i like them so much (if you can stay away from dain that is)

all outlands decks are

hirluin + 2 other heroes (it barely matters who) + every single outlands ally + steward of gondor + outlands attatchents+ beorns tale (cant remember name now)

 

on the note of general game breaking decks- that is an issue that concerns me. ....what new errata will  we get to counter act it? ....i still cannot believe zigil miner....i mean there was 1 deck that broke the game, but it was an awful deck and not even worth playing, but all the same we lost a card from it

 

i think this is the issue in general- can you resist breaking the game if the cards are given to you? i never think a card should get shafted if it requires 1 specific deck to break the game, or even make it overpowered. it should only be if the card stands powerful on its own, or with many combos

Edited by richsabre

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Well, breaking a co-op game seems totally counter-productive to me. How enjoyable is winning on turn 1 every encounter without even giving it a though or a chance? Where's the fun, the enjoyment of the lore, and simply the game?

With this game, it all comes down to being fair with what you do. Yes, Outlands are OP and have an obvious mono-color solid build that destroys pretty much any adventure, but it's only worth knowing that it's out there and that some crazy actions can happen with it.

 

In the upcoming month, Voice of Isengard will crush everything with more free cards, and I find this somehow sad, because the mstake has been made in the past with many games, and it doesn't seem to affect the design decision of R&D team here.

 

But in the end, enjoy the game as much as you can, the way you want to see it played, and don't bother playing competitively, it hasn't been designed for this at all. My take on this is: Enjoy the game with friends, with fair decks and a fine beer, crush Orcs or be crushed but keep it fun.

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But in the end, enjoy the game as much as you can, the way you want to see it played, and don't bother playing competitively, it hasn't been designed for this at all. My take on this is: Enjoy the game with friends, with fair decks and a fine beer, crush Orcs or be crushed but keep it fun.

indeed....beer+friends+crushed orcs = good times :)

Emrad likes this

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Hello,

 

I'm the creator of the two deck presented by Lilian. I work on Dwarf combo for 2 players since a while. So I have an actual version (without doomed cards) and it is already crazy. Able to win quest in a few turn. To bring 20 allies in the first three turns. And able to ready them each turn by lure of Moria.

 

But with new cards this combo become totally insane. I try to build optimal versions and I think that the most recent is able to make the combo at 95% on the turn one. So we have 20 allies in play at the turn one and we are able to ready them 3 times. So for fun I try to even complete quests on the turn one. And, as Lilian say I see that is possible for every quests except Escape from Dol Guldur. And for 2 others quests I need to be lucky. For the 21 others you can do it every time. So you win at 90% on the turn one.

 

So of course this deck is not safe for competitive play. But it is not about playing will of the west. It is absolutely unnecessary for winning. I already think about what can be cut off of this deck. And the conclusion is: no matter what you take off the deck will still be too powerful. Sure it will not be able to crush everything instantly. But it will be best deck for 2 players.

 

The two majors cards are:

- We are not idle : This card is a staple in Lotr in general (draw a card for 0 is always cool). In this deck it become indecent. You also win too much resources. A good idea is to restrict number of dward that you can exhaust. For example:

"Action: Exhaust up to 1 Dwarf character to add that number of resources to a hero's resource pool and draw 1 card."

Some rather want an edit for avoid to set this card in 3X in all decks with the leadership sphere. Something like:

"Action: Exhaust 1 Dwarf character for adding 1 resources to a hero's resource pool and draw 1 card."

- Legacy of Durin : you can draw too many cards. Could be write:

"Response: After you play a Dwarf character from your hand, exhaust Legacy of Durin for drawing 1 card."

 

With this two changes you will kill dwarf combo. And it will be cool for the game.

 

There's no video sorry and the player who build this deck is a great player of Magic the gathering

No I'm not. I was an average competitive player. I may be in the first % of magic players but it still far away of being a "great player".

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Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

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Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

Edited by Alex6222

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Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

They use Ravens of the Mountain, as I said above.

 

Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.

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Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

maybe he mean there is no point to play since he is already too strong after the first roind

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Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.

 

 

A player propose to add "victory 1" to will of the west and i thought that's a good idea

 

I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr

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Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

Mono-Leadership is probably strongest. Take Hirluin with Théodred and Balin, all the Outlands, perhaps safe Forlong, the Lord of Morthond, A Very Good Tale, Steward of Gondor, Men of the West, Valiant Sacrifice (maybe), King Under the Mountain, Sneak Attack, Gandalf (Core), and fill the rest with cheap Gondor Allies, for instance, like Errand-rider or Envoy of Pelargir. Really not that many choices. If you want to go For Gondor, use Imrahil and Boromir instead, and try getting more Gondorians like the new Squire, Watchman or Custodian. Either way (been there done that), it is one of the most boring experience I have had with the game, but it wins you games no doubt about that.

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Now, yes, the loops are the definition of boredom. I would never pursue that path. Still, I want to see some of the cards shafted because they are bad design. And it is here that ffg is just shocking, for some reason they shaft Master of Lore who had never been very powerful and now is just terrible. And cards like Will of the West, which I could certainly do without, as it is a boring card too, but the one allowing for most of the loops, somehow still works just as it has since the beginning.

 

 

A player propose to add "victory 1" to will of the west and i thought that's a good idea

 

I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr

 

Yeah, the victory could help, for sure, excellent idea. I would still not play the card much, I think, but it would certainly make sense. The limit one per deck could also help - it would then be just as restricted as Black Arrow (and when you think about it, the Arrow surely cannot make more of a difference on a usual game).

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Yeah, the victory could help, for sure, excellent idea. I would still not play the card much, I think, but it would certainly make sense. The limit one per deck could also help - it would then be just as restricted as Black Arrow (and when you think about it, the Arrow surely cannot make more of a difference on a usual game).

I don't think that limit one per deck help because for the deck I see, the loop deck use one Will of the West

 

I don't like loop deck and I don't use them so I'm not an expert of them. But, they are a problem for the meetings and the tournaments.

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Hmm, the deck you list does use 2 copies of Will of the West. And in any loops it is easier to have two, instead of one and a Dwarven Tomb or Map of Eärnil. Otherwise, I totally agree, we need get rid of such, somehow.

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Wow, thanks for the lesson. Not sure i'll try it but i'm real curious to see how these decks work.

One thing I am not sure of is, if a scenario has 3 or more quest cards, how can you complete all of them in one turn, since progress from one quest card in not carried over to the next card after quest resolution? Would it not be at least one round per quest card?

They use Ravens of the Mountain, as I said above.

There is only 1 copy between both decks. I don't see how it can be played enough times before the first quest phase to complete 3 scenario cards for something like 30+ progress tokens, and when it is played the top card of the encounter deck might not have any threat.

Still baffled, but sounds boring, and i thought Outlands was broken!

Just out of curiosity, and back to overpowered decks.

Has anyone beat Battle of Laketown without having one of the following in one of your decks. I'm talking solo one hand play here.

1. Dain

2. Frodo

3. Outlands

If so what type of deck did you use? Would you consider it overpowered?

I beat it with one other deck once, but never with the consistency that the 3 mentioned above have.

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I agree that "loops are the definition of boredom" and I think they must be eradicated from Lotr

Neo voice : Whoa. Déjà vu...

Gollum voice : What did you say?

 

There is only 1 copy between both decks. I don't see how it can be played enough times before the first quest phase to complete 3 scenario cards for something like 30+ progress tokens, and when it is played the top card of the encounter deck might not have any threat.

Still baffled, but sounds boring, and i thought Outlands was broken!

The aim is to draw all your cards, then you can play the raven hill/will of the west loop. If the first card of the encounter deck is bad, you can play The End Comes to shuffle the encounter deck.

To Lillian & Rouxxxor : told you to come to me for translation... (yeah, don't have the same acount name here and there) (why am I writting this in english ?) Bon, tu nous fais une vidéo pour quand rouxxxor ? je pense que "tour un" est pas utiliser tel quel en anglais.

 

I think "first turn" is more used than "turn one".

About "Chemin de great step" : "chemin de grand pas" in french, "grand pas" is the name of Strider in french version, the card is Strider's path.

Google traduction is fun.

Edited by alogos

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Okay can someone please tell me how do they make to work the new outland cards into the outland deck. I once tried doing a mono-leadership with lord of morthond and it failed terribly. I agree that outlands are overpowered but i think they depend too much on card draw (beravor) and there arent many cards to make a fully thematic outland deck like dwarves or noldor/silvan. I know another outland hero would be more power-breaking but i just dont like the feeling of mixing different factions.

 

Here's what I play with a friend :

 

LS Elven Outlands Control

Hero (3)

Elrond (SaF) x1

Eleanor (Core) x1

Glorfindel (FoS) x1

Ally (26)

Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x3

Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3

Hunter of Lamedon (HON) x3

Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3

Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x3

Gandalf (Core) x3

Zigil Miner (KD) x3

Imladris Stargazer (FoS) x3

West Road Traveller (RtM) x2

Attachment (12)

Unexpected Courage (Core) x3

Light of Valinor (FoS) x2

Expert Treasure-hunter (OtD) x2

Ancient Mathom (AJtR) x2

Vilya (SaF) x2

Spare Hood and Cloak (OHaUH) x1

Event (12)

A Test of Will (Core) x3

Dwarven Tomb (Core) x3

The Galadhrim's Greeting (Core) x3

Hasty Stroke (Core) x3

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't play Asfaloth because my friend does.

This is a really good questing and support deck, it does a crazy amount of quest, and even attack towards the end game. The curve progression is really good.

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Has anyone beat Battle of Laketown without having one of the following in one of your decks. I'm talking solo one hand play here.

1. Dain
2. Frodo
3. Outlands

If so what type of deck did you use? Would you consider it overpowered?
I beat it with one other deck once, but never with the consistency that the 3 mentioned above have..

You forget in your listing best Hero ever: Glorfindel (the spirit one). I have something like 50% of winnning the two following decks:

[solo] GEB - Glorfindel / Elrond / Boromir

Hero (3)
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Boromir (TDM) x1
Elrond (SaF) x1


Ally (24)
Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3
Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3
Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x1
Envoy of Pelargir (HON) x3
Landroval (AJtR) x1
Beorn (Core) x1
Gandalf (Core) x3
Imladris Stargazer (FoS) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x1
Gildor Inglorion (THoEM) x1
Elfhelm (TDM) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x2
Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x1


Attachment (14)
Gondorian Shield (TSF) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x3
Vilya (SaF) x3
Expert Treasure-hunter (OtD) x3
Asfaloth (FoS) x1
Unexpected Courage (Core) x1


Event (12)
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
The Galadhrim's Greeting (Core) x1
Hasty Stroke (Core) x2

And

[solo] GBT / Secrecy - Glorfindel / Bifur / Theodred

Hero (3)
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Theodred (Core) x1
Bifur (KD) x1


Ally (18)
Gandalf (Core) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x2
Arwen Undomiel (TWitW) x2
Beorn (Core) x1
Faramir (Core) x2
Gleowine (Core) x1
Dori (OHaUH) x1
Elfhelm (TDM) x1
Erestor (TLD) x1
Haldir of Lorien (AJtR) x1
Gildor Inglorion (THoEM) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x2


Attachment (10)
Steward of Gondor (Core) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x3
King Under the Mountain (OtD) x2
Asfaloth (FoS) x2


Event (22)
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
Sneak Attack (Core) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
We Are Not Idle (SaF) x3
Hasty Stroke (Core) x2
Timely Aid (TRG) x3
Shadow of the Past (RtM) x2

These was my two favorite decks before testing outlands.

 

Mono-Leadership is probably strongest. Take Hirluin with Théodred and Balin, all the Outlands, perhaps safe Forlong, the Lord of Morthond, A Very Good Tale, Steward of Gondor, Men of the West, Valiant Sacrifice (maybe), King Under the Mountain, Sneak Attack, Gandalf (Core), and fill the rest with cheap Gondor Allies, for instance, like Errand-rider or Envoy of Pelargir. Really not that many choices. If you want to go For Gondor, use Imrahil and Boromir instead, and try getting more Gondorians like the new Squire, Watchman or Custodian. Either way (been there done that), it is one of the most boring experience I have had with the game, but it wins you games no doubt about that.

This is a non-sense to speak about the "best version". Playing in solo, duo, trio or quatuor is completely different. It is quite difficult to discuss about best version in multi players because it is dependant about what you play in the others decks. So we have to discuss to "what is the best way to play two(then three, the four) decks with at least one with outlands".

But about solo decks it is more easy. And after some tests about differents outlands version I'm sure that mono-leardership is not at all the best version. I prefer this version:

[solo] Outlands + Secrecy - Glorfindel / Bifur / Hirluin the Fair

Hero (3)
Bifur (KD) x1
Glorfindel (FoS) x1
Hirluin the Fair (TSF) x1


Ally (21)
Anfalas Herdsman (TSF) x3
Ethir Swordsman (TSF) x3
Forlong (TDF) x1
Hunter of Lamedon (HON) x3
Knights of the Swan (TSF) x3
Warrior of Lossarnach (TSF) x3
Gandalf (Core) x3
Henamarth Riversong (Core) x1
Warden of Healing (TLD) x1


Attachment (8)
Resourceful (TWitW) x3
Steward of Gondor (Core) x3
Light of Valinor (FoS) x2


Event (21)
Timely Aid (TRG) x3
We Are Not Idle (SaF) x3
Daeron's Runes (FoS) x3
A Test of Will (Core) x3
Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3
A Very Good Tale (OHaUH) x3
Peace, and Thought (SaF) x3

This is my thought of a deck originally built by Lilian.

 

As you can see I have tried a lot of way to play the game. So when I say that dwarf combo is not the same that any decks that you can see even without doomed that's not because it is my favorite decks or cause by a lack of knowledge of what we can do in LoTR LCG.

 

So yes:

1- 90% of winning in turn one. I do a total of -100 points after playing all the main quests (all that 24 available in french).

2- The best version, that who have the best rate of winning was not the funny one that I show you. It was probably one who don't care of winning in turn one because you have to play too many cards for doing it. It is probably more efficient to win in a few turn (one per quest step).

3- That mean that will of the west is a funny cards, absolutely not a powerful cards that need to be fixed. Not at all.

4- I planned to give you more explanations about dwarf combos decks. You can find a version without doomed cards here: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/lotr/lord-of-the-rings-decks/_/lord-of-the-rings-decks/duo-dwarf-combo-dain-ironfoot-gloin-beravor-thorin-oakenshield-ori-nori-r768 + http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/lotr/lord-of-the-rings-decks/_/lord-of-the-rings-decks/duo-dwarf-combo-thorin-oakenshield-ori-nori-dain-ironfoot-gloin-beravor-r766

5- I haven't opportunity to do any video of the decks. If someone help to do I can do it, but with french cards that are mine.

 

PS: Sorry if I assassinate your language every time I post. Someone will correct my deck presentations so it will be more easy to read ;).

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I don't think that cards should get an errata just because they allow loopholes in certain decks. As mentioned, Zigil Miner and Master of Lore are bad examples of using errata. Best thing is to ignore these cards or certain combos, if you think they're overpowered.

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But with new cards this combo become totally insane. I try to build optimal versions and I think that the most recent is able to make the combo at 95% on the turn one. So we have 20 allies in play at the turn one and we are able to ready them 3 times. So for fun I try to even complete quests on the turn one. And, as Lilian say I see that is possible for every quests except Escape from Dol Guldur. And for 2 others quests I need to be lucky. For the 21 others you can do it every time. So you win at 90% on the turn one.

 

Perhaps i'm just being a bit dense, but I don't see how this deck gets 20 allies in play on turn one, or wins a multi-stage quest on turn one. Can someone explain clearly how this works? From reading the thread it seems like other people have twigged what's going on, so maybe i'm just missing something obvious.

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Actually all this problems come from unlimited draw and unlimited size of players hand. Quite difficult to keep some balance if players can draw like crazy and keep every thing in they hand. So this kind of combo will always appear until they fix the rules about it.

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