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Lord Vithiss

Best way to counter a tie swarm?

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I think TIE Swarms can be forgiving for unexperienced players (getting a ship killed right off the bat isn't as punishing) and can be difficult to beat for unexperienced players. If you look at the finalist at worlds or any big tournaments, they are not dominated by Swarm Lists.

It is extremely hard to fight against a well played TIE-Swarm with rebels. It feels like an autoloss to me most of the time. I won lot of tournaments but only with the swarm and all the big tournaments are dominated by a swarm. Yes a swarm is really hard to beat with the rebellion.

It really is how you fly more than what you fly in X-wing. And the dice can make or break. I flew a Tie swarm into a trio of B-wings with autoblasters, and I let him get close. At which point, the rebel player summarily rolled my squadron up, ate our lunch, and took our shoes. I didn't kill a single B-wing. Stripped a bunch of shields, but just couldn't get hits when I needed them.

(sorry for the bad English)

I think not.

Let me explain why I think the swarm is a big deal.

First of all you have a solid amount of attack dice (16) and defense dice (24).

If i lose a ship early, I don't care I have 7 others.

If I had a bad roll I don't care, if have 7 more tries. If you roll bad with Wedge for example it is devasting.

Actions? You can take 25% or 50% if you are lucky of your actions because I'll fly first and try to block.

HSF never won a torment in Germany to many swarms. concentrate fire on Han and he is lost in round 2.

I wish I could come around and play against you guys and hopefully I would lose and you are right.

Edited by TK4334

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TIE swarms are extremely powerful, but if you've got some cunning, you can take them out. They rely on bring as many attack dice to bear every turn as possible, making up for their low attack with throwing tons of dice at you. If you split your forces up and make the swarm seperate, it can't throw as many at you, and if you manage to sandwich them, then you can still focus down a ship while they are left with ships out of their arc. You are likely to lose a ship in that situation, but if you had flown everything straight at them, that ship would have gone down anyway and you'd have taken damage on your other ships as well, if their dice roll decently. By seperating (unless your squad relies on synergy) you have decreased his squad's effectiveness without compromising yours.

 

The easiest way to screw with a TIE swarm, however, happens before you even place ships: asteroid placement. If you opponent is smart, he is gonna place his rocks away from the center of the field, making the way clear for him to swarm in at you. Don't throw yours into the center, that's what he wants you to do, because now there is a decent spread. What you want to do is put your asteroids in such a manner as to create chokes near HIS asteroids. For example, if he sets 2 of his up on one side, set up 1 or 2 of yours nearby, then fly slowly toward and behind those. If he wants to engage you, he has to come at you through the rocks. Learn how your maneuver templates interact with the asteroids depending on where your ship starts, so that you can better utilize your maneuvers to avoid the rocks. Also, the more rocks on your half of the battlefield, the better, as after the first couple of volleys, he will be flying into the rocks on your side, and you'll be flying into the ones on his. If he has more to deal with than you, then you will likely come out ahead.

 

As an example of this tactic, I beat a TIE swarm at GenCon flying dual falcons, which are one of the weakest squads to face TIEs with, since I have limited attacks each turn and he can blast down my AG1 ships easily. Well, we set up asteroids as two corridors down the sides of the map, making a range-2 roadway down each side. I simply set up on my left after he set up in the middle, and advanced slowly down my roadway. I think he expected me to come straight at him even after that, so he flew straight down the center, as I moved slowly up the road. The next round, I was halfway up the board, and he had to turn into the rocks to come at me. We exchanged range 3 fire to no effect (I lost a shield or two, he may have taken 1 damage), and then the fun began.

 

I continued to move slowly up the flank, while he had to turn into the rocks. He planted a TIE right above a rock, flying through it and taking a damage, then planted Howlrunner on that guy, pushing her back onto a rock. Another TIE flew through a rock, resulting in 3 missed actions and a missed shot. I focused down the closest TIE to the falcon, dropping another shot before it could go off. The next round, I swung right around the rock closest to my opponent's start zone, and he collided two TIEs with the birds, pushing Howlrunner and another TIE onto rocks. Howlrunner managed to take 2 damage from rocks alone, and was an easy pick off. The game continued like that for a couple rounds, until my remaining falcon (Chewie) flew around in the center of the board, sniping his remaining 3 TIEs without much trouble.

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Just to throw a slight curve ball into the mix, you may wish to double check you are manoevouring the swarm correctly. A lot of players merely move one tie and then follow up with the remainder. Read http://www.themetalbikini.com/2013/02/maneuvering-as-formation-part-1.html and the two follow up posts for more detail on why moving a swarm is more difficult than a lot of people think. Of course you may have this nailed, however if not this could make life easier for your brother.

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Just to throw a slight curve ball into the mix, you may wish to double check you are manoevouring the swarm correctly. A lot of players merely move one tie and then follow up with the remainder. Read http://www.themetalbikini.com/2013/02/maneuvering-as-formation-part-1.html and the two follow up posts for more detail on why moving a swarm is more difficult than a lot of people think. Of course you may have this nailed, however if not this could make life easier for your brother.

Very valid point. I remember reading this and watching the youtube clips and being quite surprised

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Thank you very much for those great answers.

I'm flying the swarm always with the templates and I'm skilled enough that they don't overlap if there is a chance.

I hoped that wave 3 makes a TIE-Swarm weaker, but I couldn't find a solid break through.

Perhaps loaded Bomber with Jonus could do that?

Anybody tried this out?

Edited by TK4334

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oh that's easy, just use turn time limits.....  I mean it takes time to coordinate all those ships. mean while the other person who has 2 or 3 ships has to constantly wait on the swarm guy or gal.... With turn time limits of about a minute you got to be on your toes, if your not done in time oh well....  also prevents stalling!!!  

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oh that's easy, just use turn time limits.....  I mean it takes time to coordinate all those ships. mean while the other person who has 2 or 3 ships has to constantly wait on the swarm guy or gal.... With turn time limits of about a minute you got to be on your toes, if your not done in time oh well....  also prevents stalling!!!  

 

Alternatively, set each game to ending at 1 hour (Well, at the end of the turn after that hour's up). This is a tournament style, and it doesn't put any turn-stress on the Swarm... but it does mean you'll rack up points more easily in the kill-feed.

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I think different people might mean different things when they say TIE Swarm.

Possible uses for the phrase TIE Swarm:

1) a squadron that uses ONLY TIE Fighters, therefore you have a lot of ships even though as TIEs go they are not nessisarily that cheap of ships.

2) Adding a bunch of Low priced TIEs (usually mostly academy pilots) and maybe one or two higherpirced ties (usually Howelrunner)

3) a squadron of fighthers that is pretty much only TIEs and they are cheap. This gives you the most actual ships.

I really only count the 3rd option myself as a TIE swarm, anything else is really just using TIEs. TIEs have a great advantage, they are cheap. Any time you use TIEs you will get mor ships that you would otherwise.

For me the game X-wing is has to shall I say main characters. The X-wing and the TIE Fighter. These were the first ships released and I am very happy to report that no matter what expansions have come out these two ships have maintained their iconic role. Don't get me wrong I love the all the ships I particulaly love the Interceptor, YT-1300, Firespray, and TIE Bomber. But no matter what has come out the X-wings and TIE Fighters have remained bery viable choices to build your squadrons arround.

I use the Academy Pilot and the Rookie Pilot as a sort f base line when I build my fleets. I think things like Howelrunner costs 1.5 Academy Pilots. Or Marksmanship costs 1/4 of a Academy Pilot. It helps me keep everything in perspective.

It could have been very possible for subsequent releases to make TIE fighters (and X-Wings) irrelevent as the newer stuff got cooler and more powerful. But FFG has done a great job in not letting this happen.

I think some of this thread has not been so much about a specific build for TIEs, but just TIEs themselves and how they naturally lend themselves to be played. I glad TIEs are good. I think if they weren't the game would lose something important.

It has not been my experience that they are broken, or that you are at adissadvantage if you try other (good) stratagies.

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I'm gonna take the easy route and just say Assault missiles.

But don't listen to me, because I have no experience playing with anyone other than the two people in my group. :D

Assault missiles have worked for me. A lucky shot into a tight formation can make a bad day for someone

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I recently used

Han solo - Marksmanship - Gunner

Prototype Pilot - Assault Missile

Prototype Pilot - Assault Missile

versus a variant swarm

Vader - Marksmanship - Stealth Device - Cluster Missiles

Academy Pilot x 5

Han got right into the middle of the swarm and intentionally stayed hung up there, hammering at the TIEs that weren't base to base. Even taking a hit from one of the Prototype pilot's Assault missiles for his trouble.

Vader's Cluster Missile did well on it's first volley against the YT, but the 2nd roll was all blanks :) (Or things might've gone somewhat differently)

Han ended up killing off Vader but was summarily snuffed by the 3 remaining ties of the swarm.

The Prototype Pilots then finished off those 3.

I wouldn't call it a guaranteed win, but it worked in this instance.

Edited by HazardPay

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I threw this up pretty quickly, since the Z-95s came out it's probably a lot easier to make Rebel swarms too!

 

Basically what is is is 5 Z-95s all with Munition fail-safes and assault missiles.

 

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!66:9,26:-1:7:;65:26:-1:7:;65:26:-1:7:;65:26:-1:7:;64:26:-1:7:

Edited by Lord Master Igneus

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