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Davor

What do you really want X-wing to be?

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Didn't want to derail a thread that I was reading. Yes I know the Lambda is not that great according to the internet. I believe FFG did an excellent specs to the Lambda. It seems fluffy, it's really not a star fighter or an attack craft, but for transport I believe.  (I don't follow EU stuff so not sure what was mentioned there for it.)

 

So my question is, what do you expect? I mean it seems like it's GW all over again, awesome mini, crappy stats. One of the things people complain about GW is the rules don't follow the stats.

 

While I only played a few games, X-Wing seems it follows the fluff pretty good. The stats seem to follow what you would expect. 

 

So this got me to thinking, what do you really want X-Wing to be? Do you want to play a Star Wars game fluffily for fun or is it like GW tourneys, where every ship has to be excellent at something so you can win?

 

Yes I know X-Wing crowd is totally different from the GW/40K crowd, but lately, I have been reading as if I was on a GW forum. Has X-Wing actually became so popular in such a short time that we are already competitive scene now?

 

I mean, like complaining that the Lambda shuttle sucks playing, because the stats are not that great, but it has fluffy stats which I believe is played for fun. I am sort of dreading a new wave to come out, so it can be picked apart because of how competitive it can be. 

 

I think one of the reasons why I love X-Wing was because of the non competitive chat on the internet. While it's not bad and very helpful, it gets a bit discouraging to keep reading about the Lambda shuttle where I believe it was made for fluffy fun, not competitive builds.

 

Am I wrong on what X-Wing is suppose to be?

 

TL;DR What do you really want X-wing to be?

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I like that it is balanced.  Although the tie swarms tend to fare better in tournaments, there are very few lists that prove to be weak.  Obviously if you put no thought into what abilities you use then your list will suck, but it seems that dice and player skill are really the important factors, which I think is great.

 

That being said, my friends and I who play it rarely play it at the 100 point, 3ft by 3ft, competitive style.  I think it's great that the abilities reflect the background of the characters.  I love the flexibility of the game.  Right now, our goal is to go back and recreate some of the original x-wing video game missions using the minis and using increasingly skilled pilots to do that.

 

As for the shuttle, I've seen (mostly in battle reports as I got mine very recently) it used very effectively.  Sure it's kind of tough to use well, but it's also the cheapest large ship yet.  21 points for the base model.  That's a good price.

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I think that everything IS playable, and very flavorful as well. Look at the B-Wing: in the lore, it's both a long-range weapons platform and a close-range monster. Both are builds you can give it in this game, which means they put a loooooot of research into its upgrades and maneuver dials.

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I think that all the ships are viable. The hate against the Lambda seems to mostly come from the fact that it is such a departure from the normal imperial tactics (The worst dial in the game in a faction where every other ship is incredibly maneuverable, the only one not having a better dial than its "mirror" being the interceptor, which has a barrel roll to balance it out) as well as the fact that a flying brick with a relatively short range on it's support powers is hard to use with those same speed demons.

 

I think the Lambda is mostly suffering from growing pains really. Once people adjust it'll stop getting so much flak.

 

But on topic I prefer the ships to be Fluffly, and balance issues can be solved with appropriate point costs.

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I think that all the ships are viable. The hate against the Lambda seems to mostly come from the fact that it is such a departure from the normal imperial tactics (The worst dial in the game in a faction where every other ship is incredibly maneuverable, the only one not having a better dial than its "mirror" being the interceptor, which has a barrel roll to balance it out) as well as the fact that a flying brick with a relatively short range on it's support powers is hard to use with those same speed demons.

 

I think the Lambda is mostly suffering from growing pains really. Once people adjust it'll stop getting so much flak.

 

But on topic I prefer the ships to be Fluffly, and balance issues can be solved with appropriate point costs.

 

^Well said. Hear Hear!

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I think that all the ships are viable. The hate against the Lambda seems to mostly come from the fact that it is such a departure from the normal imperial tactics (The worst dial in the game in a faction where every other ship is incredibly maneuverable, the only one not having a better dial than its "mirror" being the interceptor, which has a barrel roll to balance it out) as well as the fact that a flying brick with a relatively short range on it's support powers is hard to use with those same speed demons.

 

I think the Lambda is mostly suffering from growing pains really. Once people adjust it'll stop getting so much flak.

 

But on topic I prefer the ships to be Fluffly, and balance issues can be solved with appropriate point costs.

 

^Well said. Hear Hear!

 

Have to agree about the shuttle. Once people learn how to use the shuttle I think you'll see more lists with it included. In fact the winner of the Nordic Championship did it with a list that had a shuttle in it. It's called "Vader's Escort" and consists of the following: 

 

Omicron Shuttle w/Darth Vader (24)

3 x Obsidian Squadron TIEs (39)

3 x Academy Pilots (36)

 

Total: 99 points

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My group plays exclusively for fun. After all, it's a game. The others aren't exactly the best at strategies, so competitiveness isn't much fun. Who wants to just blow up every ship in one turn? What's the point then?

I would also love to be able to buy just the ships. I have pilots out the wazoo; what I need is more miniatures.

Edited by UnfairBanana

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I would like it more if it was an actual wargame, rather than a boardgame. It's not nearly as flexible as it could be (and some seem to think). What I mean is, there are rules that just flat out don't make any sense in the context of it (allegedly) taking place in space. Being able to hit some objects but not others, the move back along your movement gauge, having your move entirely stopped... These are boardgame ideas and are just plain bad ideas. Apparently none of the pilots (or game designers) ever took a defensive driving class. The pilot skill system is incredibly limiting. Does it really make sense that <insert pilot name here> only has ONE skill? He's PS8! Surely he would have learned the simpler ones?! Yes, it is the way it is for game balance purposes...because it's a boardgame, not a wargame.

 

The thing is, I'm okay with that. It does a good enough job for what it's trying to do. But you asked what I wanted.

 

I actually use the minis more for other games more than I do for X-wing Miniatures.

 

As for the Lambda... It's a transport. If you're using it as a combat vessel then you're doing it wrong. Using it as such is an exercise in creativity and should be commended. That doesn't change the fact that it's being used wrong. It should be part of a mission objective (guard it, kill it, protect it, find it, etc.).

 

Yes, you can put a V8 385, suitable transmission, LSD, etc. into a Ford Pinto, let Dale Earnhardt Jr drive it, and it'll go fast. Doesn't mean that you made a wise decision.

 

Is it too late to change my handle to ThatCarAnalogyGuy?

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My group plays exclusively for fun. After all, it's a game. The others aren't exactly the best at strategies, so competitiveness isn't much fun. Who wants to just blow up every ship in one turn? What's the point then?

 

And that's what scenarios and victory conditions are for...

 

But yes, fun 1st, 2nd and 5th.

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The thing that attracted me to X-Wing was the balance it struck between (as much as I hate the descriptor) casual and competitive play.  The game allows you to put the ships on the table you think are cool and because it's so well-balanced, you can still play for fun and not get tabled because you don't have the best models or the latest netdeck hotness.

 

However, if you want to play competitively, the game allows you to find the combinations that work for you, and if you are an excellent pilot, you can make it work.

 

I come from a very competitive Warmachine background and X-Wing strikes this balance like no game I've played.

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The thing that attracted me to X-Wing was the balance it struck between (as much as I hate the descriptor) casual and competitive play.  The game allows you to put the ships on the table you think are cool and because it's so well-balanced, you can still play for fun and not get tabled because you don't have the best models or the latest netdeck hotness.

 

However, if you want to play competitively, the game allows you to find the combinations that work for you, and if you are an excellent pilot, you can make it work.

 

I come from a very competitive Warmachine background and X-Wing strikes this balance like no game I've played.

 

well said GlassJ. the designers clearly r catering for both casual and competitive play. for this reason every ship they produce may miss its mark in one of these catagories. for example Han Shoots First lists probably didnt see much play in casual games, 7-8 ship swarm lists - same deal. they r very tough squads to beat and u see them feature a lot in tournaments. Casual players would likely go for more of a theme/thematic based squad squad from the movies or just something weird thats never been seen b4 just for the fun of it.

 

The game is very balanced. u can win with either factions and win with a wide variety of squads.

 

i fall somewhere in the middle of the casual versus competitive player spectrum - i enjoy teaching new players and enjoy playing against experienced players.

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I may actually disagree with you on HSF Brown Bomber.  I certainly expect some variation on it will see heavy "casual" play in large part because it is so easy to come up with and not the hardest thing to play.  Getting a Falcon and a pair of X-Wings (other fighters can work) isn't too hard.  

 

On the other hand I really don't think you'll see many 7-8 ship TIE swarms mostly because a casual player may not have that many.  There is also the issue of flying such a large number of ships effectively which keeps it from the casual player.  Now I do think mixed swarms and those with 5-6 ships are fairly common for casual play.

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casual players play for fun. style counts. winning is a bonus.

tournament players will rarely play a sub-optimal squad list unless they r testing/tweeking something new - but when the tournament games arrive they are playing the best possible squad they can.

 

i actually think the imperials have the slight edge at the moment - tie-swarms are still one of the best squads to play, and one of the hardest imo.

the arrival of imperial aces will have an impact on imperial squads - and imo keep the imperials ahead in the arms race, but only slightly.

B-Wings might help redress the game balance, although its still unknown how big their impact will be on the tournament scene - something that makes this game so interesting... its evolving all the time.

Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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There goes that silly talk of the Lamda sucking again, LOL.  If one shuttle sucks, four of them must be completely hopeless.  My opponent expired from the table in exactly 3 turns.

20131003_171257_zpse48cfc39.jpg

 

What do I want of Xwing?  I want it to be a fun game, mission accomplished.

 

Um... so you have 4 Lambdas and can't get the wings down on any of them?

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When I got my Lambda, the wings didn't want to go all the way down either. It took a little push, but they did eventually go. Pretty sure some of the paint got in there and dried up, which is blocking the wings on most of them. You have to force them where they go, but only once. After that they should always go down.

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I doubt that is the issue in that picture though.  The wings stick out past the bases a little so he probably just got sick of having to maneouver all the ships around the wings so he just left them in the upright position.

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My shuttle wings are no different. I have forced them down but also opened the chassis and shaved the components inside to allow full movement of the wings. You still get some overhang though as pointed out. The shuttles in close proximity just for better with the wings up.

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I want a game that allows me to run Squadrons of starfighters, but right now flights are pretty fun.  The price is the one thing I wish would go down just a tad, maybe 10 dollars for every fighter? (especially as they get older)

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This game and the system that is used is FFG's version of Starwars interstellar dog-fighting...Utilizing the ships,and characters of the series in a unique and balanced game...The only part that is a little unsettling is the switch over upgrades available to diff ships...Then again I always look into complete realism lol...Movie version mixed with books that introduced new characters is a myriad of possibilities that add more to this game than just re-creating a Starwars battle for humanity

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Has X-Wing actually became so popular in such a short time that we are already competitive scene now?

 

X-Wing has had a competitive scene for sometime now. FFG had done a good job so far in allowing for fun and casual play, but also have made an effort to get a competitive side going as well.

The hate against the Lambda

I don't think most people hate the Lambda, just recognize that it can be tricky to fit into a list, because it's role is support, and at 100 points there isn't a lot of room for support.

 

maybe 10 dollars for every fighter? (especially as they get older)

Get older? They don't wear out, and there is so far no power creep, so there's no reason I can see to reduce the price of these ships. Especially consider how amazingly cheep X-Wing already is, compared to other games.

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