Timing, effect canceling, disrupt questions

[Ashcroftt 0]

Hi all,

I've recently aquired a moderate collection of Cthulhu cards, most of them from before the LCG period. After having played a couple of games, there are still a few things that are not quite clear to me. I'd really appreciate if someone could help me out with these:

1, Can any actions be used during the separate struggle steps, and do the effects of the struggles resolve immediately after the struggle is completed?

e.g. I have a benefactor (say Ruthless Fanatic) committed to a story, and he gets a wound during the combat struggle. Can I sacrifice him to create a new domain, using his disrupt ability? Do forced responses triggered by a struggle result resolve immediately, or only after every story is resolved? Is it possible to cancel a wound using an effect during the combat struggle (e.g. Worms of the Earth)? Can any effect at all be used during the struggle steps?

2, When I use the action of Elder Thing Scientist to put it into play, can that effect be cancelled (e.g. Performance Artist/ Court of Yhtill)? If yes, what happens to the card? Discard pile/stays in hand/else?

3, Can I trigger a single response multiple times, if the trigger occured more then one time? e.g. If I win 3 icon struggles by two icons, can I trigger the response of one Author of Hideous Truths 3 times? Can I trigger them immediately after the struggle is won, or only after every story resolves?

Thx in advance for the help!

 

 

 

 

[Ashcroftt 0]

Three more questions, dear cultists and investigators, someone please take the time to help me with these... I am still int the phase of learning the little quirks of this game, but can't rally progress without some rule clarifications - and the FAQ ain't almighty..

4, When a card has a cost of 0 (zero) do you still have to drain a domain for it? (suppose not, but doesn't hurt to ask)

5, The Keenness of Two Alike goes like this:

Action: Exhaust and pay 2 to chose 2 characters, each controlled by a different player. Until the end of the phase, exchange control of these characters.

If I use the action in the story phase, after all players have committed characters, can I exchange one of my uncommitted, exhausted char for one of her committed char? If the answer is yes, will the chars remain in the same "game-space" (not really sure of the word for this one) - will her character be committed on my side of the story, and my char simply under her controll, but uncommitted?

6, When draining a domain which has transient cards attached, are all transient cards attached to ALL domains destroyed, or only the ones attached to the domain being drained? I suspect the latter, but the rules have some poor wording regarding this.

[PearlJamaholic 0]

i was waiting cause marius usually explains things real well. but ill give it a shot just so you atleast have some answers.

1. only disrupts may be used once the struggles start. forced responses happen right away as well.

as for ruthless fanatic, im not entirely sure if story cards are considered 'card effects' something makes me think they are not, so you could only trigger it during the combat struggle if you or another player play another disrupt effect first.

 

2. a tricky one......this is why i was hoping marius would come around cause i usually get these slightly wrong. so im probably only go be 80% right here, at best.

the action can be canceled and  id assume it would go back to the hand. which would allow them to play it again if able to cause of character play. sac'ing performance artist would lower the chance of that again. thats my best guess at it. hope its right.

 

3. since its a response youd have to wait until all struggles happen for the first action can be taken, and all 'responses' happen before any 'actions' but yes you could trigger the response for every struggle you won by 2 or more.

 

4. nope. and if it doesnt have any steadfast you can play it in any deck with out worrying about it either.

 

5. im pretty sure taking control would remove them from the story and since commiting to stories has already happened cant recommit them. but you could wait until they commit, take one give them one of yours and then you may commit. there is an action window between each players commiting step.

 

6. just the domain that was drained for the card has the transients destroyed.

 

[marius8 1]

Ah, a curious one...

1, Can any actions be used during the separate struggle steps, and do the effects of the struggles resolve immediately after the struggle is completed?

e.g. I have a benefactor (say Ruthless Fanatic) committed to a story, and he gets a wound during the combat struggle. Can I sacrifice him to create a new domain, using his disrupt ability? Do forced responses triggered by a struggle result resolve immediately, or only after every story is resolved? Is it possible to cancel a wound using an effect during the combat struggle (e.g. Worms of the Earth)? Can any effect at all be used during the struggle steps?

Not any actions, only disrupts. And Forced Responses. "Action: " can only be played during the "white boxes" of the turn sequence:

 

2, When I use the action of Elder Thing Scientist to put it into play, can that effect be cancelled (e.g. Performance Artist/ Court of Yhtill)? If yes, what happens to the card? Discard pile/stays in hand/else?

If it is cancelled, ETS stays in your hand. Nothing stops you from triggering ETS again, though. So cancelling the effect is kinda pointless.

3, Can I trigger a single response multiple times, if the trigger occured more then one time? e.g. If I win 3 icon struggles by two icons, can I trigger the response of one Author of Hideous Truths 3 times? Can I trigger them immediately after the struggle is won, or only after every story resolves?

See the table above, the responses happen after the stories all have resolved. If a similar trigger has been activated multiple times (you win 3 icon struggles) you can trigger it 3 times per author.

4, When a card has a cost of 0 (zero) do you still have to drain a domain for it? (suppose not, but doesn't hurt to ask)

No, you do not drain a domain.

5, The Keenness of Two Alike goes like this:

Action: Exhaust and pay 2 to chose 2 characters, each controlled by a different player. Until the end of the phase, exchange control of these characters.

If I use the action in the story phase, after all players have committed characters, can I exchange one of my uncommitted, exhausted char for one of her committed char? If the answer is yes, will the chars remain in the same "game-space" (not really sure of the word for this one) - will her character be committed on my side of the story, and my char simply under her controll, but uncommitted?

When control changes, the character uncommits.

6, When draining a domain which has transient cards attached, are all transient cards attached to ALL domains destroyed, or only the ones attached to the domain being drained? I suspect the latter, but the rules have some poor wording regarding this.

Only the Transient cards that where on the drained domain.

[Ashcroftt 0]

Thousand thanks for the answers, and also for quenching my curiosity! 

It seems that we got most of them right during play, with the exception of the Keenness. Next week we'll have a big game night with some friends, and they'll surely be happy to know the answers to some of these Q-s. It's also likely we'll run into some other interesting situations, so I will probably be back here with more soon.

[Buatha 3]

Okay, since I don't want to create another thread for newbies like myself, I have a few questions as well:

 

1)  This may be a goofy question, but are the 3 cards for your Domains supposed to come from your deck?  Is it part of the "luck of the draw" factor that is in play (ie one of your "good" cards could wind up a Domain) or can you just use the 3 Domain cards from the CCG or spare cards?

2)  Since there is a Forced Response, I'm assuming Response: actions can be ignored if you wish?

3)  After the Active player commits characters to one or more stories, there is an Action step.  If the Active player doesn't take an Action after this, can the opposing player take an action?  Say, some card that affects the Story struggles before the Opposing player commits his characters?

4)  I see there is a step to respond to the struggles and successes of Stories.  So, how does that work?  If a character was wounded (and killed) or caused to go insane, there are Actions to address these things?

[marius8 1]

Hi, welcome!

Never be afraid to make new threads

1)  This may be a goofy question, but are the 3 cards for your Domains supposed to come from your deck?  Is it part of the "luck of the draw" factor that is in play (ie one of your "good" cards could wind up a Domain) or can you just use the 3 Domain cards from the CCG or spare cards?

No, you use cards you don't use. Before the game came with seperate domain cards. In the future... maybe?

2)  Since there is a Forced Response, I'm assuming Response: actions can be ignored if you wish?

Yes, you can choose not to trigger those.

3)  After the Active player commits characters to one or more stories, there is an Action step.  If the Active player doesn't take an Action after this, can the opposing player take an action?  Say, some card that affects the Story struggles before the Opposing player commits his characters?

Yes, the game only moves on if all players pass priority in succession.

4)  I see there is a step to respond to the struggles and successes of Stories.  So, how does that work?  If a character was wounded (and killed) or caused to go insane, there are Actions to address these things?

There are cards like these:

..that can respond to things that happen during Story Resolution. Note that these triggers only happen after all stories have resolved, in the "Responses to Struggles and Succes Results may be played" window.

 

 

 

[Buatha 3]

Thank you, Marius.

 

Just a quick follow-up about Muddy Waters.  So, if a character was wounded, dies, and hits the discard pile, I can use this card after all struggles are completed and use it's Response?

[marius8 1]

Buatha said:

Thank you, Marius.

 

Just a quick follow-up about Muddy Waters.  So, if a character was wounded, dies, and hits the discard pile, I can use this card after all struggles are completed and use it's Response?

Yes. The "response trigger" will stick around until all the stories have resolved, and you'll be able to use it.

[PRODIGEE 0]

I would'nt be nitpicking, Marius, but I don't agree with you on this one.

5, The Keenness of Two Alike goes like this:

 

Action: Exhaust and pay 2 to chose 2 characters, each controlled by a different player. Until the end of the phase, exchange control of these characters.

If I use the action in the story phase, after all players have committed characters, can I exchange one of my uncommitted, exhausted char for one of her committed char? If the answer is yes, will the chars remain in the same "game-space" (not really sure of the word for this one) - will her character be committed on my side of the story, and my char simply under her controll, but uncommitted?

When control changes, the character uncommits.

No, it don't uncommit, ... it is removed ...

It's not the same, and, as we're arguing on the french forum on this point because of Obsessive Inmate, I'd like to point this out !!

Remove concern a character that has change control

Uncommit means you reach the latest part of the story phase and resolved the skill struggle, then you can uncommit characters.
 

[radynski2 0]

PRODIGEE said:

Remove concern a character that has change control

Uncommit means you reach the latest part of the story phase and resolved the skill struggle, then you can uncommit characters.
 

What's the practical difference between removing a character from a story and uncommitting them?  It's the exact same.

[Dadajef 0]

For example you must remove the obesive Inmate from a story by taking control of him. You couldn't uncommit it because its card effect (he can't uncommit...). Removing is not uncommiting. But it's true, after you remove it from a story he is no more commited in this story.

Play a blind soumission on the obessive (with a malus skill) to see the difference between removing and uncommiting. The same with a polar fog, you remove a Character from a story, then you commit it again, so you can play a Polar fog on the obessive to remove it from a story (... and commit it again in another story).

 

[radynski2 0]

I see your point, but in my mind uncommit = remove.  I don't think there's any difference.  Granted, there's no FAQ entry or ruling backing me up, but I'll rule it that way until proven otherwise.

[marius8 1]

Yeah, I'd say these are exactly the same. Although you could say that removing a character from the story will uncommit him. And if an ability would refer to a specific wording, it only will work in some cases. Is there any situation where it matters? Can't think of one...

[PRODIGEE 0]

In case it would be exactly the same, why do we have two specific references in the rules and FAQ ? on the first page of the FAQ, which describes the sequences, we do notice that the board on the lower part of the FAQ strictly mention it.

The basic difference is that you can remove a character from a story anytime the story phase is on, but Uncommiting is something that needs to be done right after the skill comparaison.So you cannot uncommmit a character that is commited until the skill struggle resolved.

This is not an issue for most of the cards, but the new inmate + Polar Fog ... start to be a deal for Hastur's strategies...

 

And this might ^^ interfer with futur wording or any other interpretations.

 

Those words needs to be clarified with a new FAQ, IMO.

[marius8 1]

PRODIGEE said:

The basic difference is that you can remove a character from a story anytime the story phase is on, but Uncommiting is something that needs to be done right after the skill comparaison.So you cannot uncommmit a character that is commited until the skill struggle resolved.

No, I don't think that's the case:

-- Syndicate --
Rum Runner
----------
Type : Character
Cost : 3
Skill : 2
Icons : C
Subtype : Criminal.
Game Text: While Rum Runner is committed to a story, it gains "Action: pay 3 to uncommit Rum Runner from this story and move it to another story."
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Miguel Coimbra
Collector's Info: FR U40

-- Syndicate --
On the Grift
------------
Type : Event
Cost : 4
Subtype :
Game Text: Play during a story phase. Action: choose an opponent. Uncommit all of his characters from one story, and commit them to another story of your choice.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: John Moriarty
Collector's Info: EE U80

-- Miskatonic University --
Unmasking Treachery
-------------------
- Steadfast [MISKATONIC][MISKATONIC] -
Type : Support
Cost : 0
Subtype : Mask.
Game Text: Response: after a story resolves, attach Unmasking Treachery to a committed character. Action: pay 2 to uncommit attached character from a story.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Aaron Acevedo
Collector's Info: MN U32

-- Cthulhu --
Noises in the Hills
-------------------
Type : Event
Cost : 2
Subtype :
Game Text: Action: Play after all players have committed characters to stories. Uncommit one of your characters, and re-commit that character to a different story.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Arnold Doong
Collector's Info: ADD F8

...as opposed to:

-- Syndicate --
On the Lam
----------
Type : Event
Cost : 1
Subtype :
Game Text: Play during a story phase. Action: remove one of your committed characters from the story it is at. Then, move that character to another story. It is now considered to be committed to that story.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: John Gravato
Collector's Info: AP I12

...which leads me to conclude that both wordings mean exactly the same.

 

[PRODIGEE 0]

well, thus said, you must have the right answer, Marius.

But why the hell do we get two word for exactly the same action? That's confusing, and I was totally messed up reading the rules (strange how they used the two words with parcimony...)

In the case this interpretation has to be confirmed by FFG in a FAQ (That MUST be done !!!!!).

 

So, in the case of an Obsessive inmate with a malus skill, what happens when you try to remove him from the story he's commited at, as you've played a Blins Submission. As control changed, you must remove him from the story but the card says you can't ... So, he changed side and keep committed at the story ?