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sunny ravencourt

Beating Super-Han

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I play against a guy at lunch once a week.  He's been rolling 2 ships.  One of them is always this super-Han.  He plays Han, gunner, expose, Chewie, and I think that might be it.  This time his other ship was Jan Ors.

 

I've been running combo's of 2 decked out firesprays, or 2 cheapo firesprays and something else.  I ran 2 bounty hunters with gunner each and a lambda with vader today.  Did not fare well.

 

His Han attacks 3 primary, plus 1 for short range, plus 1 for expose, plus 1 giving Jan a stress and that's 6 die.  PLUS, he can reroll them with Han if he doesn't like it.  In the incredibly unlikely event that I don't get hit, he can gunner and start all over again.

 

Is the answer to this a lot more smaller ships?  He has a 360 turret, so getting in blind spots doesn't work. 

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First order of the day is to kill Ors.

 

Secondly, if Han uses Expose, he has agility zero, so everything you hit with goes through. 2 Bounty Hunters with HLC's should chew him up.

 

Try Kath with HLC, Recon Specialist and PtL. The second ship should be a Bounty Hunter with HLC and Recon Specialist. If you feel really mean, put Slave-1 on Kath and give her an Advanced Proton Torp. With PtL you are pretty much guaranteed 5 hits.

 

Stay at range 2-3 as much as possible and if he closes to rang 1, That APT will make him think.

Edited by Englishpete

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I'm with Pete. You have to stay at a distance. I've seen a lot of people make the mistake of trying to get to range one against a six dice rolling monster and I have to say it is the wrong idea.

You need more ships. Tryout a six tie swarm that mixes up squints and eyeballs. Sorry interceptors and tie fighters.

I don't think bombers are the answer here. If you use some academy pilots well you can start bumping Han and taking away his action.

As for Jan, SHOOT HERE DOWN ASAP! Pour everything into her right away. This has two upside points, first it will be one less attack coming back at you. Second it will stop Han from rolling six dice. That's just sick. Just sick.

Your other option is to sit back and rock his world with a heavy cannon and some ties but you need as many ships as you can get.

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Oh I use this against YT builds a lot with LOTS of success.

Fel with swarm tactics

Turr swarm tactics

Saber with swarm tactics

Alpha squad

Everything shoots at a nine and if you have initiative you can shoot down Jan before she starts passing red dice out like candy.

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I would strongly disagree with shooting Jan first.  When she goes down, you reduce incoming fire slightly.  When Han goes down you decrease incoming fire enormously.  As long as the Falcon is on the board, your ships will continue to melt away.  The lists you have shouldn't have that much trouble dropping a 2 ship Han/Jan list.  Just concentrate ALL your fire on Han, and do whatever you can to maximize that shooting.  If he uses Expose, more power to you that makes it easier to lay damage on him.  Unless you are running a very low ship count list as well (which would be the worst possible matchup vs. Han lists of any sort) you should be able to eliminate the Falcon with 2 rounds of shooting, or 3 if you are unlucky.  In that amount of time, "super Han" could only have dealt around 10 damage.  This will be painful, but hardly game ending, the equivalent of losing a Bounty Hunter.  The rest of your list should have little difficulty taking Jan out once she is alone.

 

If you are only using 2 Firesprays, that 10 damage is half your list.  You also have a lower damage output, so by the time Han goes down he could easily have blasted one and a half of those Firesprays.  Try a list with one Firespray and a bucket of TIE fighters, or something else with a higher ship count and you should have much more success.

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The reason I suggested the list I did and killing Ors first is I have buried the exact Han list with it several times. If she is dead, and you are at range 3 Han has 4 dice at best and you will get an extra evade die, along with a focus from recon spec, you will mitigate a good amount of that damage. Also, the HLC's do not care about range. It's four dice no matter what with no modifier. With the set up proposed you'll put at least 4 damage on Han per turn, probably more.

 

The other reason to kill Ors is that anyone sensible puts an Ion Cannon on her and that will muck with your day :-)

 

Just my tactics. Yours are sound to though Kinetic :-)

Edited by Englishpete

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Use Rhymer, Jonus and a Scimitar Bomber. Give Rhymer two Advanced torpedos (he can use them Range 1 AND 2 with his ability). Pair that with marksmanship and you have 5 dice (6 in range 1) to counter...as the Falcon will want to stay close use proton bombs on all three Bombers. Add 1 concussion missile on Jonus and you come out at 97 points. I used this squad to demolish a Lando and Biggs squad.

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The reason I suggested the list I did and killing Ors first is I have buried the exact Han list with it several times. If she is dead, and you are at range 3 Han has 4 dice at best and you will get an extra evade die, along with a focus from recon spec, you will mitigate a good amount of that damage. Also, the HLC's do not care about range. It's four dice no matter what with no modifier. With the set up proposed you'll put at least 4 damage on Han per turn, probably more.

 

The other reason to kill Ors is that anyone sensible puts an Ion Cannon on her and that will muck with your day :-)

 

Just my tactics. Yours are sound to though Kinetic :-)

 

I agree, take out the small support ships first.  After that, you can throw everything at Han.  Removing Ors is easier to do and can remove a smaller threat faster.  The falcon will take longer to kill, allowing your foe to use both ships against you. 

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Every time i fly against Han, I shoot him early and shoot him often.  I throw everything at him until he is dead, then mop up.  A firespray with a HLC is your best bet to shut him down.  Keep it at range 3 and send a mini swarm in first, I've only had one game where han survived to turn 4 and that was due to poor dice.

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Unless he's packing 2 xwings I always shoot Han First so he never gets to shoot first!  The few games I've lost to YT builds have been me trying to take out supports first.

 

Cut the head off and then feast on the body.

^THIS^

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The reason I suggested the list I did and killing Ors first is I have buried the exact Han list with it several times. If she is dead, and you are at range 3 Han has 4 dice at best and you will get an extra evade die, along with a focus from recon spec, you will mitigate a good amount of that damage. Also, the HLC's do not care about range. It's four dice no matter what with no modifier. With the set up proposed you'll put at least 4 damage on Han per turn, probably more.

 

The other reason to kill Ors is that anyone sensible puts an Ion Cannon on her and that will muck with your day :-)

 

Just my tactics. Yours are sound to though Kinetic :-)

 

No worries, just different playstyles.  I far prefer to take out the Falcon, others swear by hitting the support ships first, and between the two of (and the others who have posted here) I believe we have covered both strategies and the reasoning behind them.   :)

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All good advice.  I think I'm likely to run a 2 firespray squad.  I'm a little surprised that my 2 BH 1 lambda with vader squad did so pooorly.  I mean, REALLY poorly.  Now granted, I could have rolled a little better, but it did NOT go well.  I felt underpowered bigtime without the HLC on the firesprays.

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2 Bounty Hunters with HLC. Throw in Howl with Swarm Tactics. Solid list. Eats Han for breakfast. 100 pts

 

OR

 

Krassis with HLC. Bounty Hunter with HLC.  Add either Backstabber or B.S.P. with squad leader. Backstabber flies off to the flank to get outside of arc. Either Han goes after Backstabber or sticks to 2 B.H.'s.

B.S.P stays behind B.H.'s and gives one an extra action to B.H. (like TL) so Krassis takes focus and can reroll 1 die, B.H. can focus and TL reroll as many dice as needed. 

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Use Rhymer, Jonus and a Scimitar Bomber. Give Rhymer two Advanced torpedos (he can use them Range 1 AND 2 with his ability). Pair that with marksmanship and you have 5 dice (6 in range 1) to counter...as the Falcon will want to stay close use proton bombs on all three Bombers. Add 1 concussion missile on Jonus and you come out at 97 points. I used this squad to demolish a Lando and Biggs squad.

 

Secondary weapons don't get the Range 1 bonus die.

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Use Rhymer, Jonus and a Scimitar Bomber. Give Rhymer two Advanced torpedos (he can use them Range 1 AND 2 with his ability). Pair that with marksmanship and you have 5 dice (6 in range 1) to counter...as the Falcon will want to stay close use proton bombs on all three Bombers. Add 1 concussion missile on Jonus and you come out at 97 points. I used this squad to demolish a Lando and Biggs squad.

I'd re-evaluate this fleet, though it does have the seeds of promise.

Rhymer, Jonus, and a Scimitar Bomber walk into a bar...

Jonus gives a Jonus Bonus of 2 re-rolls per secondary weapon attack.

Cluster Missiles are pretty effective against the Millennium Falcon on their own, because it only has 1 evasion dice.

Rhymer gets to use them at Range 3.

If you have a Target Lock on a ship the turn before launching Advanced Proton Torpedoes, you can use a focus to turn them into melting-beams of awesomeness. Bomber's the only ship in the game that can throw out Homing Missiles the turn before, which doesn't actually spend their target lock to fire. Jonus is half of a target-lock here anyway, so you will have it left over the next turn.

Major Rhymer definitely needs at least one action per turn, and one of those turns is going to have a Koiogran. Adrenaline Rush solves that problem by giving you 1 white koiogran.

Jonus doesn't boost his own ordnance, so I have a conundrum: do I buy the 5 pointer that causes a crit, or do I buy the one that will get run over by such a massive ship for up to 3 damage and have 2 left over to boost the Scimitar's actions?

SO, after all that, my final tweak of Dr. Morbius' fleet is:

Bombermen

[100]

Major Rhymer

+ Adrenaline Rush

+ Advanced Proton Torpedoes

+ Homing Missiles

+ Cluster Missiles

[42]

 

Captain Jonus

+ Squad Leader

+ Proximity Mines

[27]

 

Scimitar Squadron Pilot

+ Homing Missiles

+ Advanced Proton Torpedoes

+ Cluster Missiles

[31]

 

The Alpha Strike is the following:

Turn 1: Target lock as soon as possible, by doing a 1 forward until they're in range 3. Fire your Homing Missiles that same turn. Do not use Target Lock to re-roll from Rhymer.

Turn 2: Scimitar and Rhymer Focus. If the Scimitar wound up using the Target Lock, Jonus can Squad Leader to re-acquire it. Otherwise, Jonus drops the Proximity Mines in front of the Falcon. Fire your Adv. Protons.

 

Turn 3: Scimitar and Rhymer Koiogran to re-acquire the Falcon, who changed his flight-path to avoid the Proximity Mines. (Hopefully, you planted this in Range 1, and he can't avoid them. Otherwise, the altered flight-path is still desirable, and you might pick up damage on Jan as a bonus). Rhymer ditches Adrenaline Rush, to turn it white, and target locks the Falcon. Jonus does a 4 forward instead of a Koiogran, and Squad Leaders the Scimitar into doing the same. Rhymer fires a double-barrel of Cluster Missiles at Range 3 at the Falcon.

Turn 4: Scimitar does a green maneuver. Rhymer goes full speed ahead to attack Jan , or to get the Falcon into killing-range of the Scimitar. Jonus does a turn and barrel roll to stay in Range 1 of the Scimitar, who can now unleash the other double-barrel of Cluster Missiles, at Range 1-2.

After this, you should have some lame ducks to take out. This is also assuming your Bombers survive the first 4 turns of combat, which isn't necessarily guaranteed as Han Shoots First. Still, having a clear plan before the fight gives you a skeleton on which to improvise during the fight :)

Edited by DraconPyrothayan

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nothing ive seen eats han for breakfast [at least not consistently]. that 360 firing arc is a problem and keeps rebels in the game till the end.

the sooner u can strip han of shields the better off u will be as this gives u a CHANCE to get a crippling crit on him.

one tactic to employ (as suggested here) is keep at range as long as u can. once u see the opportunity to concentrate fire - go for it and use multiple attacks on him - he has crazy good firepower but he can only attack one of ur ships per turn.

if ur not using a tie swarm, perhaps a combination of cheaper ships and heavy hitters? ur gonna want at least one slave1 backed up with tie-fighters for annoyance. (if u can block him or force him onto an asteroid for a turn u will stand a better chance).

Edited by The_Brown_Bomber

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nothing ive seen eats han for breakfast [at least not consistently].

 

try Jonus + 3 bombers on clusters and normal torps. always took out the falcon on the 2nd round of combat. if you are lucky, 3 clusters on the first round of combat will immediately remove the falcon, regardless of what action it took. Only thing that cna stop this is probably Biggs

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nothing ive seen eats han for breakfast [at least not consistently]. that 360 firing arc is a problem and keeps rebels in the game till the end.

the sooner u can strip han of shields the better off u will be as this gives u a CHANCE to get a crippling crit on him.

one tactic to employ (as suggested here) is keep at range as long as u can. once u see the opportunity to concentrate fire - go for it and use multiple attacks on him - he has crazy good firepower but he can only attack one of ur ships per turn.

if ur not using a tie swarm, perhaps a combination of cheaper ships and heavy hitters? ur gonna want at least one slave1 backed up with tie-fighters for annoyance. (if u can block him or force him onto an asteroid for a turn u will stand a better chance).

Huh? Plenty of squads can consistently kill Han really fast. Obviously, ordinance of any kind helps, but TIE swarms, 4xRebel ship builds, and several others can handle him in only 2-3 rounds of trying.  He only gets one defense die after all... and thats assuming he doesn't Expose as presented above.  Honestly, the few times I've seen people doing "super Han" I just push to Range 1-2 as quickly as possible and decimate him with volume of dice, An X/B (or a mixture thereof) list can easily put out 14+ dice in one turn on him. Han's 13 hit points dont last long against that with or without Chewie unless you somehow flub the dice repeatedly, especially since he is unlikely to kill more than 1-2 ships in that short time frame.  TIE swarm is similar, most swarms of at least 6 ships can pretty readily put out 12+ dice if they focus fire.  The new hotness Bomber lists with Jonus and some combination of missiles have a good possibility of killing him on missles alone.  

 

Once you kill Han, these lists will fold pretty fast in my experience.  The lists that have the most trouble against Han are low ship lists (<5 for imps, <4 for Rebs), since they have neither the hitpoints nor volume of fire to put him down easily.

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The other list that would go to town on this list is 3 x B-Wings with FCS and HLC.

 

It has the HP's to withstand what Han will throw and will lay down massive hurt in return.

Exactly. Han would be lucky to take out 1 B-wing in 2 rounds of fire (it can happen but it can just as easily not happen). So while you only get 1 round of firing from 1 of your B-wing's if things have gone perfectly for Han he is still facing 12 attack.dice vs his 1 or zero agility dice that round followed by 8 attack dice vs his 1 or zero agility the next 2 rounds.

In order for Han and Jan to take out 1 B-wing per round of attacking they would have to have near perfect dice results and its just not realistic imo.

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I'm not a B-wing hater but honestly I've had lots of people try the Bs with heavy cannons against me when I for HSF. THEY STRUGGLE HARD. The YT is one of the most maneuverable ships and it is taser then the B-wing. I've found that I can stay out of their arcs and minimize the damage I'm taking. With innitiative and two X-wings in support I've been able to drop a B without it shooting back. With those extra dice man I could crush one.

Before people ask, blinded pilot crit didn't allow the B-wing to shoot.

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I'm not a B-wing hater but honestly I've had lots of people try the Bs with heavy cannons against me when I for HSF. THEY STRUGGLE HARD. The YT is one of the most maneuverable ships and it is taser then the B-wing. I've found that I can stay out of their arcs and minimize the damage I'm taking. With innitiative and two X-wings in support I've been able to drop a B without it shooting back. With those extra dice man I could crush one.

Before people ask, blinded pilot crit didn't allow the B-wing to shoot.

That's a very valid point Picasso but the big difference between your HSF list and this one is that yours is a legitimate squad that can be competitive with almost anything whereas the OP's opponent is running a pretty gimmicky list that can't stand up nearly as well.

Flown really well you should be able to mitigate the B-wing assault but in this instance I think the OP could have some solid luck with this.

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